Status Check for GC

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AnalogGamer
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Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:18 pm

Greetings all,

After a hardware related hiatus, the campaign continues. Want to check in with the more experienced folks before I get too deep.

Now at the Albert Canal. Want to compare my farm to others'. Playing at General.

30 units, plus 3 elites. Can deploy 20. 10,889 prestige with soft cap on.

2x wehr, 2x para, 2x gebirejaeger, 3x pioneer(1 is the uber +3 +3 special), 1x se infanterie, 1x se grenadier.

3x pz3f (1 SE), 2x pz4d. 1x 8rad, 1x pzjagar.

3x 105, 2x sturmpanzer, 1x captured 105.

3x 109e, 2x stuka (1 useless rudel not used), 2x 110c, 2x he111.

Almost everyone has at least a star even with reg replacements. Very few heroes so far and no "bad" ones yet.

Is this how one "farms"? Run em until they hero up then send in new ones? Disband lousy heroes.

I am thinking of adding a couple new 109s this battle to get to 5, and start running up experience. Plus a pz4 to get 3 of each.

How am i doing? Where would you suggest alterations? It feels funny to have so many units after years of running just enough.

Thanks for your attention.

goose_2
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by goose_2 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:55 pm

Great questions and great discussion...
I of course have many thoughts as I want you to have the best most successful experience...as such...
1st off your prestige count is commendable...keep doing what you are doing

Disband 1 of your newest SE Infantry...probably the Grenadier because it is least likely to get a hero, because you want SE Tanks not Infantry because in latter years that soft cap is going to bite and SE units do not count against your soft cap...

Do not buy any more tanks, the game gives you more than you will ever need and you can hero farm off them...for right now you have plenty of tanks to start with...actually more than enough...

1 more Fighter sounds about right 2 more might be overkill, especially since getting a 2nd hero on Fighters is extremely difficult, even on Manstein.

I would consider buying 1 more Sturmpanzer, and probably 1 more 10.5 arty to more round out your arty and to build up more experienced arty's to play with...I used to buy almost 1 new one every other scenario so I could build experience on more units.

The thing you are going to wish you did early on is build up more AT units. These are extremely difficult to train up, but essential in latter years when you need experienced units to field against the Russian horde...so think about buying and training at least 2 Panzerjaegers and see if you can even get a 3rd one to at least 2 stars before the end of 1940/41.

I would say the rest looks good...I just completed Albert Canal last night and was hoping I would earn some heroes but failed to earn even a single one...must be getting close with many units though as most have that Iron Cross 2nd Class.

Blessings on your endeavors and keep us posted
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AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:01 am

Thanks for the reply and input!


I have struggled to keep hitting the regular replacement button, but have done it, and now have a nice chunk in the bank. I just have to keep telling myself that just because I have money in the bank doesn't mean I can spend it... just like in RL. :)

The SE Gren was just awarded and I have not bought or deployed yet. I will just go back to the end of the last battle and re-run the end screen a few times, like I used to do, until I get a tank. The gren showed after 4 tries. That is my only PC vice. I will re-run an end screen until a tank shows, but I chose to run what I got 1st this time.

I have always despised those pzjagars so it is a struggle to use them. It is hard habit to break and I know I need to. Waiting until Jagdpanzer IV is not going to do this time out, in a GC instead of the vanilla game. I will try and run a pair of pzjagars until they get experienced.

The big question is... when do I switch out the bullpen? One star? One hero? How long should I play a unit before sending in a fresh one?

goose_2
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by goose_2 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:21 am

AnalogGamer wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:01 am
Thanks for the reply and input!


I have struggled to keep hitting the regular replacement button, but have done it, and now have a nice chunk in the bank. I just have to keep telling myself that just because I have money in the bank doesn't mean I can spend it... just like in RL. :)

The SE Gren was just awarded and I have not bought or deployed yet. I will just go back to the end of the last battle and re-run the end screen a few times, like I used to do, until I get a tank. The gren showed after 4 tries. That is my only PC vice. I will re-run an end screen until a tank shows, but I chose to run what I got 1st this time.

I have always despised those pzjagars so it is a struggle to use them. It is hard habit to break and I know I need to. Waiting until Jagdpanzer IV is not going to do this time out, in a GC instead of the vanilla game. I will try and run a pair of pzjagars until they get experienced.

The big question is... when do I switch out the bullpen? One star? One hero? How long should I play a unit before sending in a fresh one?

You don't need to keepo reloading thing just take as is and sell off for extra prestige

Time for bed answer rest another time
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hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:43 pm

I would strongly suggest disbanding (in staggered order) your two SE infantry and replacing them with SE tanks (in fact always ALL SE units as tanks). It makes things slightly harder now but you will thank yourself later on in the later harder scenarios of the GC. You should have had a couple of SE tanks collecting experience and kills since norway while the going was easier.
You should have been building up in experience and kills in an 88mm flak by using it in the easier GC39 scenarios ( alot of the time in anti-tank mode e.g. in 'piatek' at a river crossing) and possibly a mobile flak, once again it would be very useful later on when experienced when the air war gets very serious.
I agree with goose; one more fighter and more arty.
I dont think you need two stukas; one is fine as you will get given a couple of pre-heroed tactical bombers (e.g. in spoils of war and uber rudel).
surprisingly, recon rudel is actually useful right up to GC44east! if used properly and essential for some scenarios (e.g. stalingrad docks) although of course you do have to be careful with him. I am currently in gc45east and he has 295 kills.
I disagree with goose about the panzerjaegers (sorry goose :-), if you have enough good tanks you dont need them.
I discussed my early strategy about farming/heroes/rudel/ alot of other things quite alot in my AAR thread "GC39-41 East Analysis and Replays" as I have found that the seeds of 'victory' are sown very early on right from the beginning in gc39.

goose_2
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by goose_2 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:55 pm

Ok, I have had some rest...much better now...
Interesting someone dares to disagree with me ;)

I like having AT's in my repertoire as they have a great role and they are cheaper than tanks so help to keep the softcap down...but they suck if they are not experienced, so build experience with them now.

You ask when should I switch out the bullpen...at my current super hard level is different than the General level.

I would say switch out in 1940, make sure that all units are at 2 stars experience, but once they hit 3 stars and 1 hero switch them out...but make sure your entire army has up to 2 stars by the end of 1940 (as much as possible) and 3 stars of experience and 1 hero by the end of 1941...this will set you up to go the distance because in 1942 you will start getting 2nd heroes and up to 4 stars...where as I am deep in 1944 and most of my units have 2 stars and most have 5 stars while some still have 4 stars...this is the army that will go the distance into Berlin 1945
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captainjack
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by captainjack » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:14 pm

AnalogGamer wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:01 am
The SE Gren was just awarded
Why disband the SE Grenadiers? They are some of the best infantry around as the extra SA and ammo gives them a useful edge, especially defending against infantry. You get a lot of tanks awarded in game, including captured and special awards, so it's not like you'll be short of tanks, and you definitely need infantry in all scenarios. You might get soft cap issues a little bit sooner, but it's not going to be a deal breaker since the difference in cost between SE Grenadiers in a half track and a tank works out about 10/unit average cost until you start getting King Tigers. On conventional settings (not double Rommel) you can probably save much more on soft cap managemnt by carefully developing AA units in place of an expensive airforce or being a bit more selective with overstrength and by deploying fewer units in some scenarios.

hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:57 am

because when the big numbers of armour start rollling against you you NEED heroed and experienced tanks to destroy them without losses and about halfway through the GC and later (as early as the start of gc42), the latest tanks start affecting the softcap quite alot but if they are SE they dont count at all towards the softcap wheras any infantry will not hence SE tanks are always much more cost effective. And you do need the best tanks for the later GC's. I would only keep a captured tank IFF it already has a hero. you are given lots of tanks but they are a technological dead end.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:12 pm

Thanks so much for the robust discussion and views.

Since I got the vanilla campaign, lo these many years ago, I have always re-run the end screen until I got my three SE tanks. I decided this time that I would set a limit of no more than three re-runs after receiving a 1st unit. The darn Grens showed up twice in a row, so I figured the world was telling me something. :)

Disbanding, and then hoping for a tank later, would deny an SE unit the chance to gain experience. I earned a unit last battle, and I am collecting one. :) I do not believe that I have ever disbanded a unit. It may seem a counter-intuitive way to run things, re-running for SE but keeping lousy heroes, but it became a habit to keep my boys. This is the campaign that I learn to disband, but no lousy heroes yet. Only captured unit so far is a 105, and that will stay. Lousy captured equipment will be disbanded.

I have seen horror stories of the Russian hordes, so I am attempting to prepare now. The use of 88s and A/T should have been started already. Thanks for the reminder.

The plan now is to re-run until a tank. Then I will get a Pzjagar , an 88mm and a 109. My soft cap is at 100%, so I do not know if that means I am already maxxed or that I have not yet begun to encroach upon the limit.

EDIT - Only took two re-runs to get SE PzIIIF. :)

goose_2
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by goose_2 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:05 pm

100% soft cap means you have not tapped into yet...I am attempting Return to Kishinev on Manstein started with softcap 74, currently 81 as of round 5....
Super complicated and dynamic battle.
Enjoying the challenge, like a puzzle, that I love coming up with a nice solution
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AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:28 am

Made it through the Albert Canal with a decisive, but it cost me. I did not take all secondary objectives, so I left cash on the table. Lost my new PzJagar to a ridiculous roll of the dice from an unseen attacking infantry pair. Bought another right then as penance and it earned a most of a star by battle's end. The new 88 got some nice kills as AA and A/T.

Those jagars are squishy! Even sending them in as mop-up is problematic. I sent one after a 3-strength unit, and it ran it away as a 1, to come back as 10. I have no doubt that will stop once a star is earned.

The Allies just kept sending units. I decided to settle in and just let them come. Wipe out a wave, move up to a trigger zone, repeat. That's what cost me the secondary objectives I didn't get to. If I had sent my Pzjagar pair to the SW for all those empty cities, everyone would have been happier. Even in open terrain, they were not happy up north.

Just over 12k prestige for The Hague. My aggressive style, and lack of information about each battle on my virgin run through the GC, cost me some replacements in battle. I have remained intentionally ignorant of any details of what is to come. I just know the Russians will get mean in 43.

Time for my 3rd Sturmpanzer. My 2nd 8Rad seems to be in order about now as well. I usually run two main columns and each needs an 8Rad for city taking, mop-up, and recon duty. Late-war recons get some nice numbers, so it is a good investment. I can't live without my 8Rads. :) Like part of me after all this time.

Got an initiative and defense hero on two units on the Canal. Hopefully they start piling in soon.

captainjack
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by captainjack » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:34 am

Panzerjagers are tricky - you have to remember that they are mobile AT guns not tanks or Stug 3G. Once at about 3* they get quite handy but are still really defensive units and for mopping up.

And yes, I know why people want only SE tanks, but don't you also want heroe'd up 4 and 5* infantry you can afford to elite reinforce? By going all-SEtanks, you're missing out on something better enough than the standard unit to be worth keeping.

hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:16 am

Analogamer: "Those jagars are squishy!"

Ha ha yes soooo true
Even when I have tried to farm an AT I have waited untill the stug 3f's are available as the jaegers arejust too vulnerable even in the easier earlier scenarios.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:16 pm

Yeah, i remember why i used to wait now. :) It is a quest now. I will learn how to use those fragile hothouse flowers.

Been a long time since i lost a primary unit.

captainjack
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by captainjack » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:38 am

Who'd have thought that the idea of playing a couple of SE Infantry out of 7 or 8 SE units would cause a stir?
I made it through to Antwerp 45 on the Western path with 2 or 3 SE Infantry and a tac bomber (I cleared my saved files since then so can't check exact details), though that was using Nico's equipment files. While I'm (slowly) improving, I'm definitely not a super skilled player, so go on give it a go. After all, what harm could one little SE Infantry unit do........

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by TSPC37730 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:18 am

I definitely want to chime in and support the Panzer Jager I's. In '40 they have a HA of 10, which I believe is better than anything else except an 88. As you have seen, careful employment is still a must and pairing one with an artillery unit is a good idea.

I'm ok with playing with 1 or 2 SE infantry units. I'm a fan of the '43 SE Grenadiers. If you can snag an attack hero, you can deliver some devastating hits to heavy armor in close terrain in the later years. This can be much less costly than slugging it out tank to tank. IMO, the ideal ending situation for an SE Grenadier is a movement hero & two attack heroes.

Thumbs up for the second recon unit. I think they can be very useful in the early years with their high movement and the recon move ability. Believe it or not, I find them useful in the Stalingrad scenarios as well. They can move in, fire or capture a flag hex, and then scurry back to a safe location. This can be a very handy tactic.

I think you should add one Flak 88 and one mobile AA unit if you haven't already. I do like the SdKfz 10/4 early on. Some of the scenarios in '40 are spread out and the extra movement can be very helpful. You can upgrade later to the SdKfz 7/1 later if you prefer.

If you still have 3 fighters, I wouldn't buy more than 1 more. H. Bar should appear at Sedan, which would give you 4, plus however many you bought. You also have your 110's. In each scenario, there's only so many air units to kill, so, if you take them all out in the first few turns, you'll still have all of those fighters deployed. At that point, their usefulness is limited to scouting or strafing for 1 or 2 points off a defending unit. Hopefully, the unit won't be able to shoot back, and hopefully, you won't encounter any AA. Hopefully...

Lastly, you can only take rotating units in and out so far. Any unit which sits out a scenario undeployed gains no experience and no kills. If you try to rotate out too many units, you may have trouble getting that second or third hero as the years go on. At some point it may be best to just keep developing a good unit rather than switching units in and out from scenario to scenario. Good luck!
Last edited by TSPC37730 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 am

I do have the one SE Infanterie that I got early. I wanted to see what would happen if I just took what they gave me, but they gave me nothing but troops.

The 7/4(7/1) is definitely coming. I always keep one in my force. The 88 will have to wait another round. I have one now and it needs to build up.
I now have 4 fighters, and that is it. I am done buying air power for the time being.


Thanks for the input and great discussion folks!

huckc
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by huckc » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:49 pm

captainjack wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:38 am
Who'd have thought that the idea of playing a couple of SE Infantry out of 7 or 8 SE units would cause a stir?
I made it through to Antwerp 45 on the Western path with 2 or 3 SE Infantry and a tac bomber (I cleared my saved files since then so can't check exact details), though that was using Nico's equipment files. While I'm (slowly) improving, I'm definitely not a super skilled player, so go on give it a go. After all, what harm could one little SE Infantry unit do........
I think SE infantry are fantastic sub-Manstein.

1) They get the largest bonus as a percentage of their base stats
2) Get them the earliest so can build them up faster
3) Can justify the super expensive transport with 8 movement

Playing on Manstein and Ultimate I miss using those grunts, they get absolutely shredded against +5 strength artillery while tanks just shrug it off. Especially late-game.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:15 pm

"Pleasure boating on the Meuse is forbidden!"

:) One of my favorite quotes from Hustlin' Heinz. Decisive at Sedan. Left 250 on the table in un-taken hexes.

I am still getting the hang of the GC. Not losing any units, but getting smacked around a tad. Had to get a few replacements during battle again, all regular. The Ai throws waves of aircraft, which I like. Just need to be expecting it. The enemy planes get vaporized, but they get their licks in first.

Probably going the Brit route next. Not feeling like facing Char Bs(if they are present).

Have 38 +3 units. Cannot think of a thing that I need now. Have the 7/4 and a pair of jagars and an 88. Five fighters and a pair each of stukas, 110s and He111s. Six tanks, seven arty(3x sturm), pairs of every flavor of troops except an extra pioneer(the uber +3 +3).

What is next? Bridgers? I have no doubt I will need more units, but want to get them at appropriate times.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by rubyjuno » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:21 am

AnalogGamer, your experience sounds very similar to mine, as well as your approach. I'm also still getting the hang of the GC and surviving (and improving, I hope) despite getting knocked around. There are definitely times when I have had to get replacements during the scenario for vital units that are required for future skirmishes. I have more units but I'm a bit further on than you... but I also have the uber 3+3 Pioneer, it's an awesome unit. Have fun!

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