Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

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Are you happy with is proposed format?

Poll runs till Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:46 pm

Yes - looks good. I'll be there.
8
80%
No - don't feel I've been properly consulted. Give me more options.
2
20%
No - I don't like it and if you run with this I won't be there.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 10

petedalby
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Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by petedalby » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:46 pm

We recently had quite a bit of input on what players would like to see at Britcon next year. There were some great suggestions and requests - some conflicting - but from the input I have distilled the following proposals. I shared these with the players who attended the recent Forged in Battle Team Challenge - many of whom are regular Britcon attendees - and the reaction was broadly positive.

I am therefore running this poll to ensure there is as wide an acceptance as possible. Essentially I am 'running this up the flag pole to see how many people salute.' So here goes:

Any list from Book 1 up to 50AD. Any permitted Allied list within Book 2 up to 50AD. 800 AP.

Brian Espie suggested we try a variable table size so that players have to bring more balanced armies so:

Round 1 - 6' x 4'
Round 2 - 5.5' x 4
Round 3 - 5' x 4'
Round 4 - 5' x 4'
Round 5 - 5.5' x 4
Round 6 - 6' x 4'

Note for the BHGS - please set up 6' x 4' - we'll do the rest.

Friday - variable start time to allow people to arrive at the venue as usual - maximum game length 4 hours. All other games 3 hours - guillotine finish.

Saturday 08.15 to 11.15 12.00 to 15.00 15.30 to 18.30
Sunday 08.30 to 11.30 13.00 to 16.00

Benefits:

Retains Britcon as a 6 game competition
Shorter game times & less points
Earlier finish on Saturday to allow everyone to enjoy the fleshpots of Manchester
Longer shopping break on Sunday
Trial of variable table sizes

Hopefully this will meet with the approval of most Britcon attendees. Please only vote if you are planning on going. This poll will remain open until the 30th November.
Pete

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by philqw78 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:58 am

Exciting and New!
phil
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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by peteratjet » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am

Really need to break down the options into separate bullets.

I'm agnostic about variable table sizes. Sounds like a lot of work for somebody

I hate the early starts. After breakfast at the Pendulum please. Nine AM at the very earliest.

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by ChrisTofalos » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 pm

Really need to break down the options into separate bullets.
We should be voting on such things as the period and the number of games, etc, not on a 'broadly speaking' distillation of thoughts from a relatively small sample of the player base.

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by dave_r » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:09 pm

ChrisTofalos wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 pm
Really need to break down the options into separate bullets.
We should be voting on such things as the period and the number of games, etc, not on a 'broadly speaking' distillation of thoughts from a relatively small sample of the player base.
We've already had that discussion. This is not a democracy and if we ask everybody's opinion we get 28 different suggestions which leaves us no further forward.
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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by grahambriggs » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:13 pm

peteratjet wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am
Really need to break down the options into separate bullets.

I'm agnostic about variable table sizes. Sounds like a lot of work for somebody

I hate the early starts. After breakfast at the Pendulum please. Nine AM at the very earliest.
I certainly wouldn't object to 9am, but have been able to make those start times while breakfasting in the pendulum.

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by grahambriggs » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:28 pm

ChrisTofalos wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 pm
Really need to break down the options into separate bullets.
We should be voting on such things as the period and the number of games, etc, not on a 'broadly speaking' distillation of thoughts from a relatively small sample of the player base.
My vote is that we shouldn't have a vote on such things. We had a consultation on this forum earlier, and many didn't bother to contribute. The competition has run, under various rule sets, for twenty years as a benevolent dictatorship and that seems to produce good competitions. Varying table size is an interesting and novel challenge that allows for more realism. Real commanders sought favourable ground but didn't always get it.

With 800 points we should be able to finish games more quickly, which would be handy as it's too much of a marathon at present.

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by madaxeman » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:36 pm

grahambriggs wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:28 pm
ChrisTofalos wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 pm
We should be voting on such things
My vote is that we shouldn't have a vote on such things.
I think Pete should be warmly commended for presenting the community with the opportunity to vote on whether there should be a vote on these sorts of things. Currently it appears that voters are overwhelmingly voting against the need or wish to vote on these sorts of things, and thus the democratic itch is being fully exercised, with the (apparently likely) democratic outcome that current voting suggests will show that people will take the opportunity to overwhelmingly vote against being offered the opportunity to vote on these sorts of things. I would suggest that people who want a vote on these sorts of things should vote for a vote on these sort of things, and those that don't want a vote should also vote against having a vote on these sorts of things. Then everyone who has voted will get a vote on whether they want a vote on these sorts of things (or not), which will surely be the most democratic outcome imaginable.

Or, put another way,

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by petedalby » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:05 pm

:D Thanks Tim - so easy to take it all too seriously - much appreciated.
Pete

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by davidandlynda » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:13 pm

We should be grateful that someone has taken it on himself to organise and come up with fresh ideas.
As one who does run a couple of comps and also plays others I can understand both sides.
It's all to easy to turn up play have a great time then go home not thinking of what the organiser has had to do, then probably complain about something later.
Instead of complaining be thankful that someone has put some of his own time into coming up with some ideas,interesting and good,
to enhance the enjoyment and experience of the next comp.
Lets go with it ,if it doesn't work fine we'll do something else next time
David

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by philqw78 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:00 pm

If you can't get in for before 9 ready to start playing after a couple of beers your names Ruddock and you're a bit of a lightweight
phil
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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by azrael86 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:17 pm

Definitely needs to stay at 6 games.
Only quibble is that the "shopping frenzy" should be on saturday, not sunday. Lots of traders are packing up by 1pm, and the rest of us are kicking our heels and thinking this is half an hour i could be beating traffic...

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by ChrisTofalos » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:59 pm

The competition has run, under various rule sets, for twenty years as a benevolent dictatorship and that seems to produce good competitions
I'm not sure there's anything benevolent (that is, good) in the catastrophic fall in the FOG player base, Graham. I am sure there can be a myriad of possible excuses but if players have been changing to a different rule set in droves then the aforementioned dictatorship have probably played their part in the disaster.

IMO, we need to find out what the consensus of opinion is from ALL the players, not the minority who contribute on here, and voting is the only realistic way of finding that out. It's also fairly clear that this forum probably isn't the place to hold a vote; the recent one on Britcon has produced just nine votes, which is hardly representative of the sixty-odd players in the latest rankings.

I recently asked for a vote to be taken on introducing handicapping, something I think would help improve and/or protect FOG player numbers, but the person I asked didn't agree with the idea nor have the time to organise one, and to do it myself (which I'm working on doing). Just where does this fear of voting come from? The decision makers really need to consider the opinions of all, not plough on regardless, because that hasn't worked so far.

To quote one well respected veteran wargamer, when I asked why he no longer contributed to this forum: "Too many closed minds in a small group = a waste of energy."

That just about sums it up for me...

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:25 pm

ChrisTofalos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:59 pm
The competition has run, under various rule sets, for twenty years as a benevolent dictatorship and that seems to produce good competitions
I'm not sure there's anything benevolent (that is, good) in the catastrophic fall in the FOG player base, Graham. I am sure there can be a myriad of possible excuses but if players have been changing to a different rule set in droves then the aforementioned dictatorship have probably played their part in the disaster.
Players have been changing to different rule sets and carrying on playing in the comps organised by the same benevolent dictatorship(s). So I doubt the benevolent dictatorship is a cause.
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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by grahambriggs » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:11 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:25 pm
ChrisTofalos wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:59 pm
The competition has run, under various rule sets, for twenty years as a benevolent dictatorship and that seems to produce good competitions
I'm not sure there's anything benevolent (that is, good) in the catastrophic fall in the FOG player base, Graham. I am sure there can be a myriad of possible excuses but if players have been changing to a different rule set in droves then the aforementioned dictatorship have probably played their part in the disaster.
Players have been changing to different rule sets and carrying on playing in the comps organised by the same benevolent dictatorship(s). So I doubt the benevolent dictatorship is a cause.
What Nik said. Britcon numbers of participants are fine. People have just moved away from FOG to an extent. The key thing is that people are still playing games.

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by madaxeman » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:05 am

Britcon numbers have been increasing for the past 3 years, and within that total the number of Ancient & Medieval players has also increased. In 2018 the numbers for FoG, MeG and DBMM all saw a year on year drop in numbers to varying degrees, whereas DBA, ADLG and Saga increased, with Armati appearing for the first time in years. In 2017 ADLG, DBA and MeG numbers all increased compared to 2016, FoG was flat and DBMM and Saga both went backwards.

It's maybe also worth noting that of the 61 people who have taken part in a V3 competition in the UK so far, 19 of them yet to appear at any V3 event held north of Daventry - so for Britcon to get 24 players out of a possible pool of 42 is a pretty good strike rate IMO, as is a survey with almost 25% of possible voters taking part.

As the person who ends up corralling umpires and monitoring forums for games I don't play (yay...) I can categorically state that the FoG community has undertaken far more discussion, debate and democracy about Britcon formats and themes than any other ruleset or period staged at the event in recent years, so on that basis I'd concur with Nik and Graham in that there appears to be no correlation between consultation on format an attendance - if anything the reverse appears to be true.
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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by ChrisTofalos » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:15 pm

To quote one well respected veteran wargamer, when I asked why he no longer contributed to this forum: "Too many closed minds in a small group = a waste of energy."

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Re: Britcon 2019 - Proposed Theme & Timetable

Post by dave_r » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:11 pm

ChrisTofalos wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:15 pm
To quote one well respected veteran wargamer, when I asked why he no longer contributed to this forum: "Too many closed minds in a small group = a waste of energy."
What he meant was "people disagreed with me, therefore they are stupid"
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