Refusing Surrender?

PC/MAC : Commander the Great War is the latest release in the popular Commander series to bring the thrill, excitement and mind-breaking decision making of these difficult times to life.

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operating
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:36 pm

Refusing Surrender?

Post by operating » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Hello Robotron or anybody who has input on the subject of refusing surrender!

Here is the only script I could find on the subject:

unction OfferSurrender(faction)
if faction.alliance.id ~= playerAlliance.id then
PopupSurrender(faction)
elseif game.type == Game.TYPE_SINGLE then
return AISurrenderDecision(faction)
end
end

function RefuseSurrender(faction)
SetFactionMorale(faction, 5)
if faction.morale <= 0 then
Log("Adjusting morale for: " .. faction.name)
faction.morale = 5
end
end

The refusing surrender option is perplexing to me.. It seems to say there is no, or little change to a faction NM that has been refused surrender.

This appears to have differed from the original refusal script, whereas a refused surrender resulted in an increase of NM to the refused faction and IIRC it was an increase of +20 to +30 NM, plus (maybe I could be wrong) a 20 to 30 PP bonus. In effect it allowed the refused faction the capability to possibly work it's way out of the dismal state that brought them to "0" NM in the first place. Which to me seemed appropriate which made the decision of accepting a surrender, or refusing a surrender of more value.

The reason I know about the original script about accepting or refusing surrender happened to me as France back in 2013. My MP opponent accepted France's surrender offer, which eliminated my wining intact fleets and eliminated all the units in the production queue. Then guess what? He DOW on France the next turn...!!! That's what I call a scumbag dog of a player, stuff like that is absolutely dirty..!! But the one thing I noticed at that time was why he did what he did; If he refused surrender France would have gained (XX) amount of +NM and (XX) amount of bonus PP. As I feel it should be today. I fully realize the game has changed and is a dead horse for updating, I just want some members to know about what they missed out on from the original game scripts and also the awaking of myself today of the blundering change from the devs.

Robotron
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1166
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Refusing Surrender?

Post by Robotron » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Do you still have that original version of the game from when you first bought it?

If so, you could install that version but change the destination directory during the installation process (to keep the version you are currently playing intact).

Doing so would allow to analyze the original scripts to see how that issue was handled back then.
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

operating
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Refusing Surrender?

Post by operating » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:42 pm

Robotron wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:21 pm
Do you still have that original version of the game from when you first bought it?

If so, you could install that version but change the destination directory during the installation process (to keep the version you are currently playing intact).

Doing so would allow to analyze the original scripts to see how that issue was handled back then.

Like eveybody I updated every version to date 1.6.6 I assume that changed the original purchased game. Come to think of it I should still have the original DL disc..! I also checked the manual at the start-up window about the matter in question a few days ago, it's listed on page 55, but does not give much in details and practically none about refusing surrender.


Your correct about reinstalling. Do I want to go that far about a bi***tch I have presently? Not sure?


Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to get to the bottom of the issue with proof. In the end: Would it change anything? It might make me feel better having done so, but that's about it.... The funny thing is: I've played numerous MP games since there was a change made and never violated an accepted surrender offer (IIRC), other than Belgium (for Antwerp) or Serbia for that last non-capital city Tirana, for which after capture the Serb's still fought on till their last hex was taken and then some IIRC (that may of happened under the old rules with 1915 scenarios and later)..!!!


What's funny is that other players were violating treaties, or refusing surrender and I could not, or did not figure out how they were getting away with it till now? (there was no meat to violating treaties (of already surrendered) or refusing surrender, it made it a valueless decision with little or no consequences).


Look, I'm not keen on DL other stuff. When you say other directories, do you mean other than documentation? If so, which one would you suggest?

Robotron
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1166
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Refusing Surrender?

Post by Robotron » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:56 pm

When I mentioned "directory" I meant "folder", as in: program folder.

I sometimes keep saying "directory" instead of "folder" because I started on an 8bit machine, I also often keep calling the "enter" key "return" for the same reason.
Those old-fashioned terms are just kind of hardwired into my brain, so sorry about that misunderstanding.

Back to the topic:
I'm afraid there's not much that can be done about players abusing certain game mechanics if using a mod is not an option.

I also doubt pointing fingers at devs for deficiencies in a game that is not supported any longer qualifies as being helpful.
Especially if the number of enthusiastic remaining players for said game can be easily counted by the number of fingers of the remaining hand that is not pointing at the devs.

When you first installed the game (and later the updates) you got to a certain point where the installation routine asked you where to put the game on your hard drive.
This might have looked like this (mind that this here is from an ancient WinXP machine)
1.jpg
1.jpg (64.78 KiB) Viewed 322 times
See the highlighted box where it reads: C:\Program Files\Slitherene\Commander the Great War?
That is the path on the hard drive where the game will be installed.
Quite likely your path will differ in the beginning, but it should read the same at the end.

Should you choose to install a second version of the game, maybe to try out (gosh! :shock: ) a mod, then you would click on the highlighted box and type in a different path, so it would read (for example)
2.jpg
2.jpg (61.65 KiB) Viewed 321 times
Now the path reads: C:\Program Files\Slitherene\PotzBlitz

You would now have TWO separate installations of the game in different folders on the same hard drive which will happily co-exist next to each other without interfering.

Why would you want to have separate installations of the game? So you can use the second one to change it in any way you like without having to worry about "damaging" the original version.
Slitherine's Commander the Great War on steroids: POTZBLITZ mod!
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=218&t=77884&p=662610#p662610

operating
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Refusing Surrender?

Post by operating » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:47 am

Nice job teacher...!!

OK, that seems like something I can do. Both for the original game and your mod. Does your mod already have Potzblitz in the directory? I imagine it does... When I put my CTGW disc in the machine to where this directory shows up can I add org. (original) to the end of the highlighted box after CTGW without screwing up the install? C\Program Files\Slitherine\Commander the Great War Org. I'm hoping when a disc install is attempted that my game serial number will allow a second DL of the same game on the same machine.


I've stopped all my game match play to get as much AAR work done as possible, it's wicked slow going with the process I use to get a finished post each time posting. Some of it is my own doing just to be organized to do a whole turn, then go back and delete everything from png to paint to desktop for each and every SS., actually back stepping with delete each step as I go. By doing this I get rid of a lot of clutter so to have a clearer path forward.

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