GC Barbarossa to Berlin

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Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:40 am

RVallant wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:40 pm
Good luck. Vilna was one of my favourite scenarios, it's just all round fun. :D
Yes, I am enjoying it. It seems to be going pretty well so far (turn 10).

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:49 am

Vilna is proving interesting. There have been points where I thought the Russians would encircle my units and it would be a disaster but tactical withdrawals have kept all my units alive so far. It is a big map and you cannot form continuous defensive positions. At turn 19 the position in the north is on the edge but I think the Russians are nearly spent here although it has required more replacements than I would have liked.

In the centre the defenders of Vilna are advancing and nearly all the enemy infantry (and that was a lot of units) have been eliminated. All their armour is gone. However I don't think they have run out of units yet and suspect two or three more groups of enemy units lurking on the eastern edge of the map (with 11 turns to run they are sure to have one or possibly two attacks left in them).

In the south nearly all the enemy have been destroyed and I am on the verge of a breakout and being able to capture all the VH's and other hexes that yield prestige here as there are probably only a few enemy units to mop up.

So I am enjoying this one, but I am currently nearly 4000 prestige down replacing damage to units, although I will get quite a lot back if I can wipe the map.

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:35 am

Vilna

A DV but the final reckoning after bringing damaged units back up to strength and restoring OS leaves me with 30254 prestige at deployment for Warsaw, almost 4000 down. My liking for taking reinforcements during scenarios really caught up with me here. Whether I can claw any of that back at Warsaw we shall see.

City combat so Pioniere and copious amounts of artillery are the order of the day for Warsaw.

Part of the reason I lost so much prestige is that my Panther G's are routinely getting hammered by the better Soviet tanks and heavy SU AT units. I like the mobility but taking at least the 2 SE Panthers to King Tigers is probably a good idea. However I really would prefer not to just have everything as King Tigers (not to mention that historically Germany manufactured a total of only 485 of these beasts). Also they are slow and I would have possibly not taken the last VH at Vilna without being able to rush Panthers in and prevent the Russians from purchasing any reinforcements there. I am not going to upgrade any Panthers for the moment, partly because the SE ones are currently OS to 12, which I would lose, and partly the sheer cost of Tiger 2's.

The unit that has really impressed me so far is the Elefant. As long as they are kept in open terrain, preferably with some artillery support, they take very little damage from anything the Russians can throw at them. Yes, they are slow but I am not really finding that to be a problem. Any Russian tank that they start a turn next to is in for some pain. Very much not historically the case but I'm not complaining.

The other main way I am losing prestige is damage to my fighters. The Schwalbe will be along soon and I plan to upgrade two of my aces (those without -2 def), which should improve things air to air.

captainjack
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by captainjack » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:04 pm

Once you get to 3 or 4*, the +2 HA experience bonus starts to give AT an edge. For me, the biggest risk to Elefants is multiple infantry attacks stripping ammo. Maintaining artillery backing will make for a very tough unit. Do you have a particular arty backup or just whatever is nearby?

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:23 pm

captainjack wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:04 pm
Once you get to 3 or 4*, the +2 HA experience bonus starts to give AT an edge. For me, the biggest risk to Elefants is multiple infantry attacks stripping ammo. Maintaining artillery backing will make for a very tough unit. Do you have a particular arty backup or just whatever is nearby?
I have quite a lot of artillery to choose from. For groups with more defensive roles I have 3 17cm and 3 Sig38 available and for groups with offensive tasks 3 Hummel and 3 Panzerwerfer available. I also have one Nebelwerfer 3o with +1 range. I usually deploy in 3 roughly equal sized groups with 2 or 3 artillery each.

I have developed a real liking for the Panzerwerfer to back up my Elefants. I find they take less damage than Wuhrframen and so are cheaper to run and the lower attack is acceptable for the lower cost and one extra ammo. They do shred infantry quite well and experienced 4 or 5 star Elefants need little help against hard targets, even IS tanks.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by RVallant » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 pm

You will probably be annoyed at me for suggesting it, but perhaps if prestige is a concern it is time to consider if the decisive victory is worth that prestige? Quite a few missions the normal victory is just as good anyway!

Personally, I think the 1945 decisive are more fun and flexible than the 1944 ones. I think the Panther still has value, just more of as a flanking tank?

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:38 am

RVallant wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:53 pm
You will probably be annoyed at me for suggesting it, but perhaps if prestige is a concern it is time to consider if the decisive victory is worth that prestige? Quite a few missions the normal victory is just as good anyway!

Personally, I think the 1945 decisive are more fun and flexible than the 1944 ones. I think the Panther still has value, just more of as a flanking tank?
I do agree with you. I am perhaps overly cautious about prestige as it would be extremely annoying to have come this far and not finish the GC East due to running out of prestige. I think I will actually be OK.

I have not actually researched the figures for prestige awarded in each scenario. I just like pulling off DV's and particularly getting to play the extra scenarios they unlock.

I was rather disappointed with myself as much as anything at Vilna for ending up down on prestige. I am looking forward to the 45 scenarios after your comments in your AAR. There is still the small matter of Budapest 44 first though.

The Panther does indeed still have value. I just need to try and alter my use of them so that the Elefants And Tiger 1's and 2's go head to head with the Russian heavy armour and the Panthers are placed in less exposed positions and used to flank, as you say, and to finish off enemy units. Only the Elefants and Tiger 2's can really attack the Russian heavies. Part of the issue is that, at Field Marshal, I am going against the more aggressive of the two AI settings and the Russians have a tendency to make attacks that result in mutual high losses, then follow up with more of the same. I have had to replay a number of turns after losing units to this behaviour. I am not complaining. Historically it is correct and the game feels better imo for it.

Thanks for all your comments/observations/inputs guys. Much appreciated. It is always interesting to learn how someone else goes about a challenge.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:22 pm

Well, I had to pause most of my computer gaming for a while for personal reasons. Unfortunately that has meant nothing to add to this thread for several weeks. I have now been able to resume and have just completed Warsaw. It was actually slightly tricky as I had pretty much forgotten what was going on, my units and leaders and everything else necessary to know. Fortunately the opposition at Warsaw is not particularly strong.

Warsaw

The Polish insurgents in and around Warsaw are no particular problem. With experienced armour, artillery and infantry units available then artillery and air bombardment followed by multiple infantry attacks the defenders of the city can progressively be eliminated. The Russians were also not a problem in the South. What few units did engage were destroyed and the crossing points secured. Elsewhere the Russians never moved and I was not inclined to provoke them, particularly as there are not that many prestige points to be gained). The three named Polish units were easily destroyed as they all attacked early on. Grinding down the other Polish units saw them quickly eliminated.

The USAAF air force turns up periodically, mostly with B-24's but also P-38's, a couple of P51's and some tac bombers. They fly in and attack my units. My fighters shoot them down and a turn or two later they are back for more of the same. Irritating to see points knocked off your units but nothing more than irritating. I eliminated everything Polish by turn 17 for a DV. I was disappointed to discover that after bringing all my units back up to strength I was down 1,133 prestige for this scenario, so started the next scenario with 29,121pp and 70 units plus 7 SE. Then again I didn't play particularly well as my skills were a bit rusty.

Return to Kishinev

Moving on sends us south to Romania. Can deploy 37 units plus 7 SE. Not sure what I am up against here but I suspect very strong Russian groups to the north and smaller Romanian forces to the south. From what I can see the Romanians seem to have quite a few tank and SP AT units with German equipment. Where the hell did they get those? They certainly did not have them when they were on my side before. The German front line units need that kind of gear too much for it to be left in rear area depots until a bunch of no hopers nick it and try to use it against me, regardless of what the briefing said.

I will have to give some thought about the deployment here as I will need to assign sufficient forces to destroy the Romanians but keep enough facing the Russians to hold them off. Should be interesting.

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:38 am

I have made several attempts at Return to Kishinev and abandoned them within a few turns. Either I am doing something fundamentally wrong or I have misread the scenario. I suspect I need a radical strategy here to get a DV. I will have to think about that or whether to aim to crush the Romanians, concentrate my forces in the SW corner and just try and hang on to the 4 objectives for a victory. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by dalfrede » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:34 pm

I played Return to Kishinev a while ago. As I vaguely remember.
1) Crush the Romanians
2) You don't need to hold the objectives, you need to hold on.
3) Use the terrain for a fighting retreat to damage the Russians as much as possible.
4) Use the forces that crushed the Romanians to retake objectives you lost earlier.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:55 pm

There is also a video on it on youtube, maybe you have seen this already?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33adG344eo
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:08 am

Thanks. I had started to think about crushing the Romanians then turning back against the Russians. Will give it a go and see how it works out.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Elkarlo » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:31 pm

I like your reports but I'd like to see some maps and maybe screen shots. They help with the narrative

Elkarlo
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Elkarlo » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:49 pm

Elkarlo wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:22 am
Jassay is definitely interesting. I had a flying column rush to the Romanian area. They were folding basically after one solid turn of contact. Even entrenched on Hills T34s would hit for 5-7 damage, even with artillery support.
Def a fun scenario. Makes you respect the Soviets, as they now always have a massive counter attack in the making
Did the same. I held.or inched forward elsewhere. I had my main thrust help the Romanians out. It took a few turns to fully relieve them. They were folding pretty quickly, even with many of my tanks placed in front if their lines. They are a speed bump at this point really

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:05 am

Finally got back to playing this again. So, Return to Kishinev. Started with 29121pp. The only viable strategy here that I could get anywhere with was to abandon the victory objectives nearest the Soviets and throw everything at the Romanians to clear the entire SW corner of the map. That went OK, leaving me holding 5 VH's, enough for a minor victory.

I then settled in to wear the Soviets down and eliminated most of what they had by around turn 17/18 then started to push forward. Unfortunately I either gave too much ground at the beginning or was not aggressive enough as I came up short, probably by 2 or 3 turns. So a minor victory with no units lost. As I have not played for over three months I will take that.

Looking back I think my mistake was not to grab Jassey and to abandon Kishinev and the other two VH's on that ring. If I had successfully held onto those then I would not have had so much to do at the end. So if you are faced with this scenario and want to try for a decisive then I would say take enough infantry and artillery to capture and defend those VH's, using your armour to crush the Romanians and try to eliminate them. That would be harder than the compromise I tried but is the only way I can see to pull this off.
Last edited by Cerberus51 on Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:18 am

Budapest 44

After restoring OS, I had 31414pp. That seems to be good. The ME262 is available for a fairly pricey 713pp and I decided to take a gamble and upgrade Barkhorn from a ME109K and the other three historical aces from FW190D9's all to 262's. I am hoping that will keep my air force competitive for the rest of the game. After that upgrade and OS, I have 27139pp.

Looking at the deployment map it appears the best plan is to push forward in 3 groups, form a proper defensive line running N-S through Budapest and wear the Soviets down for a push to take all the VH's at the end. I am concerned that it is not going to be enough to hold the river line as you are not going to eliminate more than one Soviet unit per turn at each crossing they contest. That may actually be enough, we will have to see. Alternatively it may be enough to hold the river line N and S of Budapest and focus on establishing a killing zone either in or just in front of Budapest. The important thing is to get started on destroying Soviet units.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Elkarlo » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:32 am

For Budapest, I had to rush my southern force across the river to meet the Soviets. I didn't do it fast enough my first time and was bogged down. Second time I kept them in lone with the city and pushed them back. Didn't have enough infantry to clear the woods though. Got a MW.
I pulled the infantry a space inside the city. This allowed Soviet tanks in and I could take them out with my infantry. The Soviets didn't do it to much. Think I only took out a couple tanks that way.

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:28 am

Yes, that mirrors my experience. I am at turn 10, halfway through, and the Soviets who moved into the eastern part of Budapest have been taken out by a combination of artillery and pioniere. In the north the Soviet armour is all gone and I am about to advance there and in Budapest. The problem is the south where there are still a lot of Soviet units. I assume there are more Soviet units on the eastern edge of the map as well.

What I am going to try and do is hold the river in the south and form 2 battlegroups, one in the centre to drive south and hit the Soviet flank and the other to drive east and then south to clear the entire northern and central sectors of the map. Not sure that the remaining 10 turns will give me enough time.

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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:50 am

If I may suggest... some screenshots would be very exciting! ;)
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

Cerberus51
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Re: GC Barbarossa to Berlin

Post by Cerberus51 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:57 pm

Screenshot of my current problem. I was doing OK in the south as the weather was not frozen and I was slowly eliminating the Soviet units at the crossings. Then it froze and they all piled across the river.

I have some light opposition in the north but I will eliminate that pretty quickly. The question is how do I hang on here until I can move forces down.
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