A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

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SteverinoLA
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A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by SteverinoLA » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:04 pm

HI there. I just discovered Panzer Corps a couple months ago. I was a huge fan of Panzer General back in the 90's and this game really captures everything I loved about that game. Great job and I can't wait to see what the devs do for Panzer Corps 2. I've spent a lot of time reading posts here and the great FAQ w/links to answers to many questions but still have a few left.

I'm now restarting a fresh Wehrmacht campaign and this time will focus on just keeping my experienced units. I I think that's where I go wrong b/c I always start off w/many decisive victories and then end up at some scenario like Overlord, Lake Batalon, etc and am utterly wiped out. Then I have to drop the difficulty to have any chance moving forward.

1) How much randomness is in the campaign scenarios besides weather and unit strength via difficulty level? I think all units are same number and location when scenario starts, yes?

2) I have a pic of the scenario trees but it's still hard to follow. What is the longest possible Wehrmacht campaign path? Marginal and only marginal victories every step?

3) If I launch a scenario standalone, is the units I'm given to start with a great example of what I should strive to have when I reach scenario in campaign?

4) And just b/c I like to know who does thing I love, can someone fine the roles of Slitherine (the publisher, I know), Matrix, Lordz and Flashback?

Thanks,
Steve

Cerberus51
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by Cerberus51 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:25 am

SteverinoLA wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:04 pm
HI there. I just discovered Panzer Corps a couple months ago. I was a huge fan of Panzer General back in the 90's and this game really captures everything I loved about that game. Great job and I can't wait to see what the devs do for Panzer Corps 2. I've spent a lot of time reading posts here and the great FAQ w/links to answers to many questions but still have a few left.

I'm now restarting a fresh Wehrmacht campaign and this time will focus on just keeping my experienced units. I I think that's where I go wrong b/c I always start off w/many decisive victories and then end up at some scenario like Overlord, Lake Batalon, etc and am utterly wiped out. Then I have to drop the difficulty to have any chance moving forward.

1) How much randomness is in the campaign scenarios besides weather and unit strength via difficulty level? I think all units are same number and location when scenario starts, yes?

2) I have a pic of the scenario trees but it's still hard to follow. What is the longest possible Wehrmacht campaign path? Marginal and only marginal victories every step?

3) If I launch a scenario standalone, is the units I'm given to start with a great example of what I should strive to have when I reach scenario in campaign?

4) And just b/c I like to know who does thing I love, can someone fine the roles of Slitherine (the publisher, I know), Matrix, Lordz and Flashback?

Thanks,
Steve
1. Yes, starting positions are constant for all difficulty levels. What can vary is the strength of enemy units. On Manstein (I think) enemy units all tart with +5 strength (there are difficulty levels beyond Field Marshal which unlock when you complete a campaign at Field Marshal (specifically Manstein - enemies +5 str, Rommel - reduced prestige awarded to you and Guderian - scenarios have 5 turns fewer to complete). The other thing which varies with difficulty level is the AI. Up to Colonel the AI plays relatively passively so it does attack but can have a tendency to buy units and keep them around victory objectives. From General upwards the default AI is more aggressive (you can change the AI setting in advanced settings when starting a campaign or at the end of each scenario if you select the "change difficulty" option.

2. I'm not entirely sure as I have never played the Wehrmacht campaign. In the other campaigns decisive victories give the option to choose additional scenarios whereas marginals push you on bypassing those choices. So I would think you should go for decisives to get more scenarios in a campaign.

3. No, particularly with the German unit file. Usually the default starting German line up contains a variety of units. Some of these will simply be better than others. For example, if you look at self propelled anti tank units then it is pretty obvious that the Stug III series starting in '42 with the Stug IIIF is the way to go. In comparison the Marder series have lower ground defence and no better attack, so are likely to take more damage and cost more to repair in the long run. Also upgrade costs can be the full cost of the new unit or just a small amount for a family upgrade (so if you upgrade a Stug III to an Elefant you pay the full cost of the Elefant but if you upgrade to a better model of Stug III it costs only a fraction of that. Obviously the Elefant is a far more capable unit against hard targets but the cost of upgrades over the life of a unit is worth taking into consideration). Generally there are usually several German units you could use but one or two will clearly be superior and the way to go.

4. Not entirely clear on this myself.

One other point, you mention focusing on experienced units. That can have its own problems. Generally, as a campaign progresses, you will be able to deploy more units in each scenario as the war moves forward in time. However the enemy units tend to start with more experience so are more dangerous. I am currently working through the Grand Campaign East and am in 1944. Russian units generally start with 3* experience and some amount of overstrength. Introducing "green", inexperienced units in this campaign (I am playing a Field Marshal) from '43 onwards is asking for them to get killed. It may be better to develop a pool of units in excess of the number you can deploy in the early part of a campaign and rotate them so all build experience and then you will have experienced units to draw on when you have more deployment slots. Of course, it is not always possible to do this if you do not have enough prestige, so you may have to use green units and build experience for them carefully.

With the Wehrmacht campaign don't forget that the campaign takes two very different paths. If you are sufficiently successful you can end up fighting your way across the USA for total victory or on the path to defeat in the ruins of Berlin. If the latter then there are scenarios that can be very difficult to get any kind of win.

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Hi Steve,

1/ At scenario start there is no randomness other than weather. Each time you play though the AI may build different stuff that you will see towards the end of a map (one time I played 'France' and there was a heap of anti-tanks waiting in the south, another time it went for infantry instead).

2/ For the "victory" path, the longest is Poland (DV) -> Norway -> Low Countries (DV) -> France (DV) -> Sealion 40 -> Barbarossa -> Kiev -> Moscow 41 (MV or Loss) -> Stalingrad -> Kursk (DV) -> Moscow 43 (DV) -> USA maps. It is possible there is a longer path if you "lose the war" and end up in Germany.

3/ In terms of how advanced your core is (say Pz4s vs Tigers) then I'd say the default units are rather average (consider the USA Midwest - one of the starting units is a Pz4J when you almost certainly want Tiger/Panthers). It is also important to consider the composition of your core - don't have a huge number of fighters and lots of AAs in your core - half of them won't have anything to do and will just take up space.

4/ In the Library there's a credits list.

Re Experience/ the later scenarios of the Wehrmacht campaign allow you to have 30-40 units in your core, and from my experience I'm fairly sure you'll need close to that to have any chance at winning. A unit can be brought up to 2 stars by fighting in a couple of maps without too much trouble, and this is better done early on when you are up against less powerful foes. Having 10 good units and a whole heap of rubbish ones won't end well.

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
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SteverinoLA
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by SteverinoLA » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am

Thanks guy, this is really helpful to me and applying to my current campaign.

1) How much more experience does a unit get for finishing off an enemy vs. damaging it? I'm still employing my old PG strategy of damaging units with the supplemental units and finishing off w/core unit. Does that matter in Panzer Corps? Are are enemy kills worth more or less experience based on how powerful the enemy unit was to being?

2) I'll figure this out shortly but ask anyway -- does a unit that doesn't take any action in a turn automatically resupply? Yes, I assume.

3) Are anti-tanks units worthwhile? Why would I choose a jagdPanther vs a Panther and same for Tiger anti-tank vs tank? In a defense scenario like Overlord, would a line of of jagdTigers noticeably outperform a row of Tiger's??

4) I dropped down to Lieutenant w/reform units on for this run to rebuild my confidence. Will put more thought into reserve units other than bridge pioneers. Don't think I can do this, but can I swap out an active unit into reserves and then deploy a reserve unit mid-scenario? Or only when I lose a core unit so core slot opens?

dalfrede
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by dalfrede » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 am

SteverinoLA wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am
1) How much more experience does a unit get for finishing off an enemy vs. damaging it? I'm still employing my old PG strategy of damaging units with the supplemental units and finishing off w/core unit. Does that matter in Panzer Corps? Are are enemy kills worth more or less experience based on how powerful the enemy unit was to being?
None, kills are kills.
But you get more experience points fighting a 'better' unit, not a stronger unit.
The standard practice is to use Aux units as cannon fodder, where they take losses, not core units.
SteverinoLA wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am
2) I'll figure this out shortly but ask anyway -- does a unit that doesn't take any action in a turn automatically resupply? Yes, I assume.
Don't remember.
SteverinoLA wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am
3) Are anti-tanks units worthwhile? Why would I choose a jagdPanther vs a Panther and same for Tiger anti-tank vs tank? In a defense scenario like Overlord, would a line of of jagdTigers noticeably outperform a row of Tiger's??
AT is cheaper than equivalent tank.
AT gets an Init boost on defense, an Init cut on attack.
Infantry gets a boost against AT, so back up with Artillary.
So your style of play can make AT useful or useless
SteverinoLA wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am
4) I dropped down to Lieutenant w/reform units on for this run to rebuild my confidence. Will put more thought into reserve units other than bridge pioneers. Don't think I can do this, but can I swap out an active unit into reserves and then deploy a reserve unit mid-scenario? Or only when I lose a core unit so core slot opens?
Unless the scenario has exit hexes, you cannot exit units. Most don't.
The number of core units per scenario increases as the campaign progresses.
If you don't build a reserve, late in the war, when you add new units they will be green units.
With a reserve you can field experienced units as your larger core.

SteverinoLA
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by SteverinoLA » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:27 pm

I'm still confused about how gaining experience works, even after experimenting in my current campaign.

1) I have some thorough spreadsheets I found in the forums w/every detail about every unit, but there's no column for Experience, ie. how much experience is gaining by killing this unit. Are specific experience values assigned to units?

2) I do see any unit that damages an enemy units get some experience, like 1 to 3 points. Finishing off a unit doesn't appear to give any more experience than inflicting same amount of damage to new unit, but I could be wrong. How exactly is experience calculated?

3) I'm just seeing tiny 1-3 point increments so now I wonder how the heck do my units amass 100+ points for each experience level? Are there any other factors other than combat? eg. capturing a base? winning a scenario?

dalfrede
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by dalfrede » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:06 pm

SteverinoLA wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:27 pm
I'm still confused about how gaining experience works, even after experimenting in my current campaign.
The formula for experience has never been explicitly explained.
However experience is logarithmic, ie a kill with 0 stars gets a unit more experience than a kill after 1 star . . .

From gamerules.pzdat:
ExpGrowRate0 100
ExpGrowRate1 50
ExpGrowRate2 25
ExpGrowRate3 12
ExpGrowRate4 6
ExpGrowRate5 3

SteverinoLA
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by SteverinoLA » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Ah, yes. I just researched *after* posting (like everyone else on internet, lol). Experience is totally logical. A unit gets get more experience anytime it is up against a harder foe. Finishing off is irrelevant -- killing a 1 strength unit w/10 strength Tiger is worth 1 xp point. That makes sense.

But now I need to rethink my hole Aux cannon fodder strategy. Those AUX units soaking up all the damage and de-entrenchment are actually gaining the most experience. Obviously, elite replacements are expense and non-elite ruins the xp. A lot more to think about during next playthrough.

dalfrede
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by dalfrede » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:48 pm

A standard practice is to Goose AI units.
To Goose - verb - surround and pound with Artillery.
A fully suppressed unit does not shoot back, so no damage to your units.
A surrounded unit forced to retreat will surrender, giving you prestige.

Prestige management is a subject of it's own, look into that too.

SteverinoLA
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Re: A few things I still don't understand in Panzer Corps

Post by SteverinoLA » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:26 am

Will do, thanks. I was thinking I shouldn't be so obsesses w/suppressing before attacking b/c of the reduced xp gain, but then you point out -- I get bonus xp for causing a surrender. There's such remarkable depth in this game, way beyond what I recall from the original PG back in mid-nineties. Well done developers.

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