War Waggons

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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NikephorosIIPhokas
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War Waggons

Post by NikephorosIIPhokas » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:16 am

I played FoG I back in the day and they had war waggons in the army lists. For example the earliest Achaemenid, the Cyrus army list, had the war towers in it, from Xenophon's Cyropaedia. While I never got Immortal Glory for FoG I Eternal Empire I think the Hussites had war waggons. My question is what reason if any was their for FoG II to not have war wagons? Also if Eternal Empire is planned as a future expansion how will the Hussites be modeled?

rbodleyscott
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Re: War Waggons

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:53 am

The short answer is that rating war wagons as tactically mobile units in the original FOG was probably a mistake. In the vast majority of accounts they remained static throughout the battle, so are better represented as field fortifications.

That does leave a few accounts where they supposedly advanced during a battle, but allowing them to always do so, as the original rules did, vastly over-represents this.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Cunningcairn
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Re: War Waggons

Post by Cunningcairn » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:53 am
The short answer is that rating war wagons as tactically mobile units in the original FOG was probably a mistake. In the vast majority of accounts they remained static throughout the battle, so are better represented as field fortifications.

That does leave a few accounts where they supposedly advanced during a battle, but allowing them to always do so, as the original rules did, vastly over-represents this.
Would they not be better modeled as an immobile unit with appropriate shooting and melee capability? Much like heavy artillery.

rbodleyscott
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Re: War Waggons

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm

Cunningcairn wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:53 am
The short answer is that rating war wagons as tactically mobile units in the original FOG was probably a mistake. In the vast majority of accounts they remained static throughout the battle, so are better represented as field fortifications.

That does leave a few accounts where they supposedly advanced during a battle, but allowing them to always do so, as the original rules did, vastly over-represents this.
Would they not be better modeled as an immobile unit with appropriate shooting and melee capability? Much like heavy artillery.
They could be, but as the crews were not physically attached to the wagons, they need to be able to sally forth when required. Which being the case, there does not seem to be any particular advantage in representing the wagons as units.
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TheGrayMouser
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Re: War Waggons

Post by TheGrayMouser » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:39 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm
Cunningcairn wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:53 am
The short answer is that rating war wagons as tactically mobile units in the original FOG was probably a mistake. In the vast majority of accounts they remained static throughout the battle, so are better represented as field fortifications.

That does leave a few accounts where they supposedly advanced during a battle, but allowing them to always do so, as the original rules did, vastly over-represents this.
Would they not be better modeled as an immobile unit with appropriate shooting and melee capability? Much like heavy artillery.
They could be, but as the crews were not physically attached to the wagons, they need to be able to sally forth when required. Which being the case, there does not seem to be any particular advantage in representing the wagons as units.
I personally would rather have war wagons have a questionable ability to move ( perhaps with a cohesion test to do so like the tabletop? ) vs just field fortifications. What troops would be allowed to sit in/behind such fortifications? Any units or special wagon berg crew units? Although wagon fort armies never won any tournaments in Fog 1, they offered pretty interesting battles both as and against. Regardless of how they might be represented though, all things medieval are eagerly awaited.

antiochosvii
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Re: War Waggons

Post by antiochosvii » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:53 pm

If this engine gets to and can replicate the slaughter of the Hussite wars I will be impressed

melm
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Re: War Waggons

Post by melm » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:52 pm

The best way I'd like to see is that the wagon can be depicted as movable obstacle or fortification. When moving, they need to be hauled on the horses for one turn then start moving, which prevents it too maneuverable. However, I suspect the engine can't make any obstacle or fortification move. If we make wagon as a unit, which can shoot and melee, I am afraid that unit is hard to price. If price is too low, camping would be a good choice; if too high, no one would want to deploy any of them.

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Re: War Waggons

Post by MVP7 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:44 pm

If something like war wagons were included I would like to see them have very limited movement like the baggage train unit. The wagon could then be permanently deployed at convenient place (which could take several turns to complete). This would allow a bit more mobility than deploying it just inside the deployment zone (which would also promote turtling) but prevent it from being a truly mobile unit.

Similar system would also be nice compromise for the heavy artillery. Currently it's often hard to find a good spot in the deployment zone and the artillery often won't have range to shoot at the enemy unless you sit back and wait for them to come to you. If both armies have heavy artillery then both are discouraged from approaching the other.

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