V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
Cunningcairn
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Cunningcairn » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:25 am

FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by stockwellpete » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:04 am

Bah! Skirmishers? Just ignore the irritating blighters! :wink:

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22702
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:25 pm

Cunningcairn wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:25 am
FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?
It is not a bug, it is how it always has worked, and how it is intended to work.

They are not teleporting though the square that isn't highlighted, they are moving through it, but are not allowed to stop in it because it is outside their permitted arc of retreat from the ZOCing enemy. It is 45 degrees from the enemy facing, whereas to be permitted it has to be less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing - see manual section 12.1.1.

The final square, however, is less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing, making the overall move to that square permissable.

If the unit could stop in the intermediate square, then because it is no longer in the ZOC, it could then keep going in that direction for the rest of its move, which would effectively negate the ZOC restriction, as it would be well outside the permitted 44 degree arc.

If a square is not highlighted, it does not necessarily mean that the unit cannot move through it, just that it cannot end its move in it. The 44 degree arc of retreat from a ZOCing unit is for reasons of psychology, not physical constraints.

Also bear in mind that moving square by square is an artificial construct, which we only have because with full analogue movement it is too complex to code interactions. Also that as skirmishers, light infantry are not constrained to remain in formation, so they may just be filtering round the edge of the friendly unit rather than making the (1 degree) detour out of the "less than 45 degree" arc that the square by square path suggests.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Cunningcairn
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Cunningcairn » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:13 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:25 pm
Cunningcairn wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:25 am
FFS am I living in a parallel universe? What are you all talking about? Is this a bug or is it how it is going to work?
It is not a bug, it is how it always has worked, and how it is intended to work.

They are not teleporting though the square that isn't highlighted, they are moving through it, but are not allowed to stop in it because it is outside their permitted arc of retreat from the ZOCing enemy. It is 45 degrees from the enemy facing, whereas to be permitted it has to be less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing - see manual section 12.1.1.

The final square, however, is less than 45 degrees from the enemy facing, making the overall move to that square permissable.

If the unit could stop in the intermediate square, then because it is no longer in the ZOC, it could then keep going in that direction for the rest of its move, which would effectively negate the ZOC restriction, as it would be well outside the permitted 44 degree arc.

If a square is not highlighted, it does not necessarily mean that the unit cannot move through it, just that it cannot end its move in it. The 44 degree arc of retreat from a ZOCing unit is for reasons of psychology, not physical constraints.

Also bear in mind that moving square by square is an artificial construct, which we only have because with full analogue movement it is too complex to code interactions. Also that as skirmishers, light infantry are not constrained to remain in formation, so they may just be filtering round the edge of the friendly unit rather than making the (1 degree) detour out of the "less than 45 degree" arc that the square by square path suggests.
Thanks for the explanation.

Athos1660
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Athos1660 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:30 am

@ Cunningcairn : I’m happy you got an answer that satisfies you. :-)
Sorry that my posts weren’t useful to you.

Cunningcairn
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Cunningcairn » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:09 pm

Athos1660 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:30 am
@ Cunningcairn : I’m happy you got an answer that satisfies you. :-)
Sorry that my posts weren’t useful to you.
Thanks your posts were useful. Unfortunately the discussion then went completely off the question I'd posted without answering it. Having been told off myself in the past for not sticking to the topic I thought I'd bring it back on track. I believe it worked :-)

pompeytheflatulent
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:37 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by pompeytheflatulent » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:19 pm

Still doesn't explain why the slingers can't move back through the Thracian spearmen behind them.

Athos1660
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Athos1660 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:56 pm

Cunningcairn wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:09 pm
Thanks your posts were useful. Unfortunately the discussion then went completely off the question I'd posted without answering it. Having been told off myself in the past for not sticking to the topic I thought I'd bring it back on track. I believe it worked :-)
Ok. then I'm happy I could help :-)
pompeytheflatulent wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:19 pm
Still doesn't explain why the slingers can't move back through the Thracian spearmen behind them.
They can, whatever their friendly unit behind them is, Thracian spearmen or the unit I used in my first post.
But look at the 5 squares the LF can move to, on the first picture below : two squares are illuminated, the others are not. And the square I guess you are talking about is not. Likewise on OP pictures. I think that's what you are talking about, aren't you ?

before moving :
Image

after moving :
Image

In the OP situation, the slingers could move back to the red cross :

Image
Last edited by Athos1660 on Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Paul59
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2157
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Paul59 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:00 am

Athos1660 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:56 pm

In the OP situation, the slingers could move back to the red cross :

Image
Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!
Field of Glory 2 Scenario Designer - Age of Belisarius, Rise of Persia, and Wolves at the Gate.

TT Mod Creator

Athos1660
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:24 am

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:00 am
Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!
On OP pictures, I can't see neither the brown dots showing ZoC1 nor the on-screen visual aids showing where the slingers can move to, thanks to the 'Pass through' mechanism, such as those visible on my pics :

Image

And I read once :
Cunningcairn wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:59 pm
I might have to resort to using the screen aids.
So I guess there is an option (that I can't find) that disables them. Maybe is it only in MP ? Or is it a game rule for MP ?
If so, the only screen aids that remain are the illuminated square(s). But it doesn't mean the slingers couldn't move to the red cross on the pic above.

Image

I guess 'illuminated' squares are squares a unit can move to without using the 'Pass though mechanism' (in red) ; in this instance, by taking the blue paths :

Image

Paul59
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2157
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Paul59 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:56 pm

Athos1660 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:24 am
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:00 am
Really? In the OP's original screenshot there is no indication that the move is possible, unless my eyes are getting bad!
On OP pictures, I can't see neither the brown dots showing ZoC1 nor the on-screen visual aids showing where the slingers can move to, thanks to the 'Pass through' mechanism, such as those visible on my pics :

Image

And I read once :
Cunningcairn wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:59 pm
I might have to resort to using the screen aids.
So I guess there is an option (that I can't find) that disables them. Maybe is it only in MP ? Or is it a game rule for MP ?
If so, the only screen aids that remain are the illuminated square(s). But it doesn't mean the slingers couldn't move to the red cross on the pic above.
I have been playing this game for nearly three years, I was in the initial Beta test, and I don't know of any way to turn off the tile indicators.

Anyway, nevermind that, I ran my own test and have got to the bottom of this.

In the first screenshot we see our brave slingers (who some would like to see trapped and destroyed!) with all their routes indicated, including pass throughs, and the brown ZOC1 dots for the Arab Camels:

Image


I then move them to a tile:

Image


I then "Undo" the movement, and they return to their original position:

Image


Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.

It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.
Field of Glory 2 Scenario Designer - Age of Belisarius, Rise of Persia, and Wolves at the Gate.

TT Mod Creator

Athos1660
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 3:23 pm

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Athos1660 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:56 pm
Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.
That's it! Congrats for having found it out.
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:56 pm
It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.
no big deal, right ?
  • When playing :
    • the screen aids appear at the beginning
    • after "undo', the "pass-through mechanism" remains useable and visible when hovering the mouse pointer over a "pass-trough square", as shown on the pic below
  • It just makes it unclear when posting on the forum (like in OP).
Image
Last edited by Athos1660 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

Cunningcairn
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: V1.5.25 ZOC changes

Post by Cunningcairn » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:42 pm

I then "Undo" the movement, and they return to their original position:

Image


Notice how the passthrough tiles have all now disappeared, and the brown dots too! Obviously this is a consequence of using the Undo button! You can get them to appear again just by clicking on the unit.

It's a shame this was not made clear at the time.
[/quote]

Wow well done sorting that out.

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II”