Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
kronenblatt
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:34 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:58 pm
kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:52 pm
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:26 pm


Keep in mind though that other than with cavalry and elephants, the main use of artillery isn't inflicting casualties but instead adding -1 to cohesion rolls for the unit it fires at.
Good point SnuggleBunnies, thanks: hadn't thought about it that way. And with "other than with cavalry and elephants" you mean that inflicting casualties with artillery is still useful against cavalry and elephants?
Not to put words in Snuggle's mouth, but essentially you have a reasonable chance to disrupt cavalry or elephants with a lucky shot from artillery alone, but they are extremely unlikely to disrupt infantry without another unit or two shooting at them too, because they usually won't cause enough casualties to trigger a cohesion test.

One useful tactic is to shoot with all your other shooting troops, and after doing so, make a judgement which unit to shoot the artillery at to have to most chance of causing a cohesion drop. (Obviously not one that has already dropped cohesion from shooting this turn). If the artillery shoot at a unit that took a test from other shooting, but passed it, surprisingly often the extra -1 modifier will tip the unit into failing.

If the artillery are able to shoot at such a unit, don't worry about them shooting at half effect because the target is in their outer shooting arc, the -1 CT modifier will still apply.
OK, thanks Richard! And on a similar (but still separate) topic: do zero casualties from shooting result in another CT (if the target has already passed one CT from shooting that turn)? I think that I have once, but only once, seen that happen (and the enemy unit failed that CT, which I was both happy and embarrassed about...).
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:02 pm

kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:34 pm
OK, thanks Richard! And on a similar (but still separate) topic: do zero casualties from shooting result in another CT (if the target has already passed one CT from shooting that turn)? I think that I have once, but only once, seen that happen (and the enemy unit failed that CT, which I was both happy and embarrassed about...).
Yes. Think of it as the morale effect of a huge bolt/large stone whizzing between their ranks after they already took casualties from arrows etc.
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kronenblatt
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:24 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:02 pm
kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:34 pm
OK, thanks Richard! And on a similar (but still separate) topic: do zero casualties from shooting result in another CT (if the target has already passed one CT from shooting that turn)? I think that I have once, but only once, seen that happen (and the enemy unit failed that CT, which I was both happy and embarrassed about...).
Yes. Think of it as the morale effect of a huge bolt/large stone whizzing between their ranks after they already took casualties from arrows etc.
And that applies also for other shooting (javelins, bow, slingers), i.e., "... think of it as the morale effect of more arrows/javelins/slinger stones whizzing between their ranks after they already took casualties from arrows, ..."? (Because that's what I saw (arrows upon arrows) in that one instance.)
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:11 pm

kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:24 pm
rbodleyscott wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:02 pm
kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:34 pm
OK, thanks Richard! And on a similar (but still separate) topic: do zero casualties from shooting result in another CT (if the target has already passed one CT from shooting that turn)? I think that I have once, but only once, seen that happen (and the enemy unit failed that CT, which I was both happy and embarrassed about...).
Yes. Think of it as the morale effect of a huge bolt/large stone whizzing between their ranks after they already took casualties from arrows etc.
And that applies also for other shooting (javelins, bow, slingers), i.e., "... think of it as the morale effect of more arrows/javelins/slinger stones whizzing between their ranks after they already took casualties from arrows, ..."? (Because that's what I saw (arrows upon arrows) in that one instance.)
Well they would take a test, but unless there was some new modifier it would have the same result as the previous one.

Having said that, there is code specifically in place to keep track of “wounds” on elephants even when they suffer 0 casualties per unit shooting at them, so that a cohesion test can be triggered if they suffer enough non-fatal “wounds”.
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:14 pm

How are use of AP calculated when moving several squares of which one is diagonal?

Such as:
* Does each move to each square count individually, like 4 AP for straight ahead and 6 AP for diagonal move (assuming open terrain), summing up?
* Is it the end square in relation to the start square that determines the angle turned, and thus its AP cost (up to 45 degrees free if within command)? (And then a straight line through the middle of the two squares in relation to the direction that the unit is facing from the middle of the starting square?)

I mean: attacking into a square is basically moving into that square AP cost wise, so I'm trying to understand what's feasible and what's not, from both a defense perspective and planning next offensive move.

(A general answer would be great, but I understand if an explicit example is needed. :) )
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:37 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:14 pm
How are use of AP calculated when moving several squares of which one is diagonal?

Such as:
* Does each move to each square count individually, like 4 AP for straight ahead and 6 AP for diagonal move (assuming open terrain), summing up?
* Is it the end square in relation to the start square that determines the angle turned, and thus its AP cost (up to 45 degrees free if within command)? (And then a straight line through the middle of the two squares in relation to the direction that the unit is facing from the middle of the starting square?)

I mean: attacking into a square is basically moving into that square AP cost wise, so I'm trying to understand what's feasible and what's not, from both a defense perspective and planning next offensive move.

(A general answer would be great, but I understand if an explicit example is needed. :) )
Well it is really yes to both. It is (in open ground) 4 for each square entered orthogonally, and 6 for each square entered diagonally. In addition there may be a turn cost to pay, depending on the overall angle from start position to final position. A "knight's move" normally has no turn cost, because it is less than a 45 degree turn overall.
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kronenblatt
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:31 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:37 am
kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:14 pm
How are use of AP calculated when moving several squares of which one is diagonal?

Such as:
* Does each move to each square count individually, like 4 AP for straight ahead and 6 AP for diagonal move (assuming open terrain), summing up?
* Is it the end square in relation to the start square that determines the angle turned, and thus its AP cost (up to 45 degrees free if within command)? (And then a straight line through the middle of the two squares in relation to the direction that the unit is facing from the middle of the starting square?)

I mean: attacking into a square is basically moving into that square AP cost wise, so I'm trying to understand what's feasible and what's not, from both a defense perspective and planning next offensive move.

(A general answer would be great, but I understand if an explicit example is needed. :) )
Well it is really yes to both. It is (in open ground) 4 for each square entered orthogonally, and 6 for each square entered diagonally. In addition there may be a turn cost to pay, depending on the overall angle from start position to final position. A "knight's move" normally has no turn cost, because it is less than a 45 degree turn overall.
Thanks, Richard! So for example: HF unit, all open terrain. Unit looks straight ahead (not diagonally), but has to move diagonally in order to attack into the square to the direction it was originally facing.
So step-by-step that is: turn 45° right, move diagonally, turn 45° left, move/attack straight; which individually would (i.e., not game rules if all made in one go, and using no free turns) have resulted in 4 (for 45° turn) + 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for another 45° turn) + 4 (for straight move) = 18 AP (not possible). BUT since end square is compared to start square, it is actually calculated as follows: 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for straight move) + adjustment for turn of 30° start-to-end (<45°, free for some units within command) => possible with free turn. Makes sense?
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:46 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:31 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:37 am
kronenblatt wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:14 pm
How are use of AP calculated when moving several squares of which one is diagonal?

Such as:
* Does each move to each square count individually, like 4 AP for straight ahead and 6 AP for diagonal move (assuming open terrain), summing up?
* Is it the end square in relation to the start square that determines the angle turned, and thus its AP cost (up to 45 degrees free if within command)? (And then a straight line through the middle of the two squares in relation to the direction that the unit is facing from the middle of the starting square?)

I mean: attacking into a square is basically moving into that square AP cost wise, so I'm trying to understand what's feasible and what's not, from both a defense perspective and planning next offensive move.

(A general answer would be great, but I understand if an explicit example is needed. :) )
Well it is really yes to both. It is (in open ground) 4 for each square entered orthogonally, and 6 for each square entered diagonally. In addition there may be a turn cost to pay, depending on the overall angle from start position to final position. A "knight's move" normally has no turn cost, because it is less than a 45 degree turn overall.
Thanks, Richard! So for example: HF unit, all open terrain. Unit looks straight ahead (not diagonally), but has to move diagonally in order to attack into the square to the direction it was originally facing.
So step-by-step that is: turn 45° right, move diagonally, turn 45° left, move/attack straight; which individually would (i.e., not game rules if all made in one go, and using no free turns) have resulted in 4 (for 45° turn) + 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for another 45° turn) + 4 (for straight move) = 18 AP (not possible). BUT since end square is compared to start square, it is actually calculated as follows: 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for straight move) + adjustment for turn of 30° start-to-end (<45°, free for some units within command) => possible with free turn. Makes sense?
No, an overall turn of less than 45 degrees does not use up the "free turn", it simply isn't paid for at all. So unmanoeuvrable and out of command range troops can attack like that too.
Richard Bodley Scott

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kronenblatt
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:46 am
kronenblatt wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:31 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:37 am


Well it is really yes to both. It is (in open ground) 4 for each square entered orthogonally, and 6 for each square entered diagonally. In addition there may be a turn cost to pay, depending on the overall angle from start position to final position. A "knight's move" normally has no turn cost, because it is less than a 45 degree turn overall.
Thanks, Richard! So for example: HF unit, all open terrain. Unit looks straight ahead (not diagonally), but has to move diagonally in order to attack into the square to the direction it was originally facing.
So step-by-step that is: turn 45° right, move diagonally, turn 45° left, move/attack straight; which individually would (i.e., not game rules if all made in one go, and using no free turns) have resulted in 4 (for 45° turn) + 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for another 45° turn) + 4 (for straight move) = 18 AP (not possible). BUT since end square is compared to start square, it is actually calculated as follows: 6 (for diagonal move) + 4 (for straight move) + adjustment for turn of 30° start-to-end (<45°, free for some units within command) => possible with free turn. Makes sense?
No, an overall turn of less than 45 degrees does not use up the "free turn", it simply isn't paid for at all. So unmanoeuvrable and out of command range troops can attack like that too.
Ok, so an overall turn of:
1. <45°: 0 AP for everyone?
2. exactly 45°: 0 or 4 AP, depending on circumstances?
3. >45 - 90°: 8 AP?
4. >90°: unit's full starting AP?

#2-4 is as per 12.4.3 of manual, but #1 was a surprise to me.

(I'm ignoring light units here. )
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:12 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:02 am
Ok, so an overall turn of:
1. <45°: 0 AP for everyone?
2. exactly 45°: 0 or 4 AP, depending on circumstances?
3. >45 - 90°: 8 AP?
4. >90°: unit's full starting AP?

#2-4 is as per 12.4.3 of manual, but #1 was a surprise to me.
Yes, it could be clearer.
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:21 pm

Is the movement cost in AP for Non-Open the same as for Rough for the different units?
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:38 pm

kronenblatt wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:21 pm
Is the movement cost in AP for Non-Open the same as for Rough for the different units?
No, it depends on the actual terrain - e.g. Enclosed or Stream. See /Data/terrain.txt
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:40 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:38 pm
kronenblatt wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:21 pm
Is the movement cost in AP for Non-Open the same as for Rough for the different units?
No, it depends on the actual terrain - e.g. Stream, Enclosure. See /Data/terrain.txt
Ah, of course: I forgot. I just viewed the terrain of the Stream as Non-Open, but of course many more types are Non-Open too. Thanks and sorry, Richard.
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:22 pm

Is there a limit on how many squares a unit can "see", i.e., its length of Line-of-Sight? If yes, what's that maximum visibility in number of squares?

Because I just noticed in a very flat 40x32 battlefield that the far end and the far corners were shaded.

EDIT: it seems that it's 20 squares, based on the shadows and the '2' hotkey. Correct?
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by kronenblatt » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:06 am

When a cavalry unit is "hidden" in the woods, with a woods square in front of it, but open terrain diagonally (say to the left in front of it), is it then visible to the enemy through that diagonal square? (Assuming of course, enemy units have line-of-sight to the woods square in which the unit is located.)
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by Karvon » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:43 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:22 pm
Is there a limit on how many squares a unit can "see", i.e., its length of Line-of-Sight? If yes, what's that maximum visibility in number of squares?

Because I just noticed in a very flat 40x32 battlefield that the far end and the far corners were shaded.

EDIT: it seems that it's 20 squares, based on the shadows and the '2' hotkey. Correct?
Yes, I think that's about right. If you deploy units against the back edge of your deployment zone, they will not be visible till they or the enemy advance to within that range even on open plains.

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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by Karvon » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:47 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:06 am
When a cavalry unit is "hidden" in the woods, with a woods square in front of it, but open terrain diagonally (say to the left in front of it), is it then visible to the enemy through that diagonal square? (Assuming of course, enemy units have line-of-sight to the woods square in which the unit is located.)
Yes they will be visible on the diagonal. You can check your LOS using a tool from the right tool menu. Can be handy at times during deployment and the game in helping move/keep troops out of sight.

One of my pet peeves is the fact hills often provide very little blockage of LOS in the game engine, greatly reducing reverse slope hiding/ambushes.

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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by Swuul » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:21 pm

What surprises me every time is that swamp terrain hides infantry. I mean, wut?

Image

How do you hide 480 legionares there, huh? Are they extra-extra slim legionares, or what?
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:36 pm

Swuul wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:21 pm
What surprises me every time is that swamp terrain hides infantry. I mean, wut?

Image

How do you hide 480 legionares there, huh? Are they extra-extra slim legionares, or what?
Wrong type of swamp.

Image
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Re: Quick Questions Thread on Rules

Post by Swuul » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:43 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:36 pm
Swuul wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:21 pm
What surprises me every time is that swamp terrain hides infantry. I mean, wut?

Image

How do you hide 480 legionares there, huh? Are they extra-extra slim legionares, or what?
Wrong type of swamp.

Image
Isn't that "rushes" next to a "stream"? Though admittedly, there is no "rushes" terrain type in FoG :(
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