Revolution / Civil War

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jerryt52
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Revolution / Civil War

Post by jerryt52 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:53 pm

Any thought to an American Revolution and/or Civil War game being added to the OOB series?

bru888
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by bru888 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:22 am

That's been my dream since first encountering OOB four years ago. Not so much American conflicts (although I would love a Civil War version of OOB - man, the things that I could design with that capability!) but other time periods, other wars. It's up to The Artistocrats, of course, but I have always seen the potential for applying OOB's engine in such a manner. So yes, there are thoughts but it's whose thoughts that matters! ;)
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by calmhatchery » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:17 pm

the civil war 1861-65 on OOB engine could be a great idea !!! I woul like t osee it...

GabeKnight
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by GabeKnight » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:28 am

Agree, but for that you'll need a LOT of new infantry/cavalry units. And for some reason that seems to be the biggest problem in OoB. Cavalry's broken since the beginning of the game, and e.g. the Soviets still have no proper infantry models and are reusing the Japanese ones...

TripleCP
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by TripleCP » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:17 am

If you were talking about the Russian or Chinese Revolutions and Civil Wars, those might work. However, an operational level wargame like OoB would not really be appropriate to either the American War for Independence or the US Civil War.

Better to hope some company does an updated take on Civil War Generals 2 for 18th and 19th century conflicts.
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Erik2
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:57 am

OOB works fine down to grand tactical mode.
Bru and Erik's Winter War and Continuation War campaigns use 40m hexes, 5 minute turns and platoon/squad units.
Of course, artillery ranges should be longer at this scale, but the scenarios play just fine.

I guess the main work with other time periods would be creating new unit graphics.
The engine itself should handle infantry, cavalry and artillery just fine with stat modifications.

Boarspear
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by Boarspear » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:36 am

Russian revolution could be incredibly interesting, especially if possible to link to the existing Soviet campaign. The Civil War is out of the question, I think, mainly due to the need to keep tight formations to use the weapons of the period (closer to the Napoleonic era than to World War One).

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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by TripleCP » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:06 am

I guess that the game engine could be used to cover any time period in theory, although it would probably suit Napoleonic, medieval, or even ancient battles given that those have more unit diversity than the US Civil War had. The American Civil War did not really feature "light" or "heavy" infantry. You'd basically have standard infantry (maybe with an upgrade path from muskets to rifles to repeating rifles), cavalry which would basically be confined to a raider/mounted dragoon role (the distinction between light, heavy, and shock cavalry would not really apply), maybe a handful of specialized engineer and sharpshooter units, and artillery that would overwhelmingly consist of cannons that would require direct line-of-sight and line-of-fire. Naval would factor in to very few scenarios and would only be wooden gunboats, ironclads, and mortar carriers.

While it could be done, it would really have to be shoehorned in...much like some have attempted to mod the Total War engine for 20th century conflicts. Truth be told, the OoB engine would actually better suit a Warcraft or Starcraft style type of scenario than it would the US Civil War. To be clear, I'm not advocating for that. Outside of World War II itself, the OoB engine seems best designed for conflicts that took place in the decades preceding or following that conflict. The Russian Civil War would probably be the earliest major war that would make for good scenarios. World War I would not work well as the dense, semi-permanent entrenched positions as well as the lack of any real opportunity to maneuver would undercut many of OoB's features, but the Russian Civil War was a much more fluid contest with more room to maneuver. Korea is the most obvious postwar conflict, and the Arab-Israeli wars up to '67 and possibly '73 might work well, too.
Last edited by TripleCP on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by Zekedia222 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:26 pm

The issue is that every different weapon in the ACW has different specifications, had different qualifications, different availabilities. Civil War General 2 (and most ACW games, like Ultimate General) assigns different melee and ranged damage (as well as various other things) to guns., as well as different formations to fight with, qualities of generals/unit leaders, different stats for units, and so on. The only issue with CWG2 is that it’s from the 80s. Otherwise, it’s a quality game.
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Erik2
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am

I created a Russo-Japanese 1905 scenario for OOB as an experiment. I researched the conflict to death when I created a scenario for TOAW.
It kind of works with the current OOB engine.
I believe it would work fine with the proper unit types. There's an interesting naval component (Port Arthur, Tsushima) in addition to the land war.

TripleCP
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Re: Revolution / Civil War

Post by TripleCP » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:56 am

Yeah, I could see there being some potential for the Russo-Japanese War, although there are some aspects that would be problematic (such as the fact that most of the warships of the Russian Navy's First Pacific Squadron bottled up in Port Arthur were disabled by Japanese land-based artillery. IIRC, only dedicated coastal guns damage ships in OoB. Likewise, there's no way in OoB for a ship to "sink" in shallow water but still be refloatable or even used as a stationary battery (as happened with some Russian warships). The naval battles could make for an interesting dynamic as you'd have the Russian Fleet trying to bait the Japanese into an engagement where shore their land-based coastal batteries could be an equalizer. And, of course, Tsushima could be very interesting (although it would need a lot of new ship models). Too bad the Soviet Navy doesn't feature too much in Red Steel as that could've led to more pre-WWI models to work with (the Avrora, Gungut/Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya, etc.)

On land, the armies were limited in numbers enough and had enough space to maneuver that OoB operational-level engine might work fairly well. (It was their experiences in this war which furthered Russian military theoretical studies of the "operational art" concept i.e. redefining battles and campaigns as a linked series of maneuvers and engagements that was clearly superseding Napoleonic-era concepts of a decisive general engagement.) A Franco-Prussian War campaign might also be decent, but that's stretching it. Passable campaigns for the Balkan Wars and World War I outside of the Western Front might also be feasible. With the possible exception of the initial German offensive and Entente counterattack in 1914, however, I don't think OoB is the best system to attempt campaigns like Verdun, the Somme, etc. There would need to be some feature added comparable to the system in Commander: The Great War where entrenchments are semi-permanent if occupied and units could be rotated in an out of the front lines to favor the maintenance of a densely-held and largely static front.

Civil War Generals II had a lot of great features and really ought to be given an graphics overhaul. It could likewise use some gameplay tweaks, too, but it could do for 18th and 19th century conflicts (and probably going back even earlier) what OoB and PC have done for WWII.
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