Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Fantasy General II - Invasion is the reimagination of the strategy game classic from the 90s!

Armies once again draw battle-lines on the war-torn land of Keldonia, and a new generation of commanders will test their bravery and tactics against each other. Fantasy wargaming is back!
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Nithral
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
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Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by Nithral » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:13 pm

Hello!

First off i want to say great game...i really loved what you did with it and look forward to playing more content.

This is going to be written based on legendary/no iron maiden dificulty so i realize the game might not be balanced based on the hardest dificulty. Also i played and finished the campaigns after the last patch with the merchant transmuter and training features.

Invasion 10/10


Very good campaign, the story is intriguing and kept me in the "just one more mission" mindset.
The pacing of the campaign is very good as it feels like you are growing from a clan warband to a multi-clan army.

The ability to train and upgrade troops that are not barbarians (wolves, imperials) is in my opinion the best option you guys added. this really goes a long way of making each army and playthrough unique. I had iseal longbows next to trolls next to imperial cavalry and they really played well together and sinergized very well. Not to mention the rp value, bc i tried to be a mercifull conqurer and forgave iseal and usually did not choose the most ruthless choice.

The Air units are alsoo really interesting...but i only ended up using one the monster hunter guys bc of the 2 item slot. However between that and my ranged and casters i nver felt i had a problem with air units ( except swamps when i had an issue with 7 swamp dragons at one point. sent you guys the save and i think it got fixed)

Even the early missions were challenging and i had to plan my moves very carefully...the first one when invading iseal (the gap ???) is imo the hardest mission in the game. Conversly with the new poatch the last missions porikos synor and the end felt kinda easy and i just steamrolled them with my not so large but extremly elite army with most of the trainings.

Resource management (weapons/armor/mana) feels balanced until the end of lizardfolk area...after that i felt i always had waaay to much. Not a complain per se, but i just never bothered looking at the numbers again...i just upgraded what i wanted and never lacked anything. i did do my best to empty most maps of resources though so this could also be the cause.

Plenty of artifacts...but a lot of doubles triples and it made me wonder if you could maybe add more with more varied effects...so no more 4 amulets of hex imunity or 4 blood oak spear and stuff like that. More stuff like Banner of the tireless archer and Mordra`s Wand please :) wich for instance if i knew was a thing i would have made alisa into a summoner. Even so it works wonders with a wolf mother.

Liked the choices you get both between missions and in mission...felt really fun to forge my own path trough the capaign...but...in the empire i feel most will choose the centaur path in order to see and get one of those units, rather than the other one...simply because more diverse units=more fun. not to mention the centaur archer guy with pathfinder might be the best support unit ever at least tied with the hunting pack. Maybe you could find a way to implement new race units in the other option...so you woint be choosing between centaurs and 4 supply but rather between a centaur and a rogue pack of harpies (for instance).

The unique traits units can get in missions...i got brave a bunch of times, frenzy once,regeneration once, and the first one near Alisa`s hut. i feel there could me more, to the extent of altering the way the unit plays. The one next to Alisa`s, Fated, i found most useless, unless you cheese it and turn the unit into a Thane. On a heavy axemen unit i gained +2morale and 20 dmg reduction and squad members never die but -16%Health and Damage. To me that made the unit mostly useless exept for soaking upo damage and by the end of the game my werebears and slayers and double their health so they sucked at tanking aswell in the end.
The -1 model really hurts...and for squads with less models i would assume it would be devastating...like having 2/3 werebears for instance. Maybe you could rework it in a way that you keep the model and maybe a % malus to health or something.

Maybe add more of them like stuff that increases their unit count or gives them more damage but less resistances...more varied things like that.

All in all more unique traits for units that u can gain from events or mini quests or blood oaks or womething would be really cool.

Bounus units from treasure hunting. I dont know if i was unlucky but i only got 2 and toward the end of the game...Mendred`s knives and the taurus catapult.Mendreds i got i think post dragon island. The taurus catapult i got before synoor so basically at end game (mind u i cleaned up most maps, so just unlucky i guess).
I thought maybe you could guarantee the items in question spawn a bit more toward the early/mid campaign since by the end they make very little diffrence and it is a shame bc they are cool and have a little back story and some unique traits.
I dont know how many there are (i just found the 2) but having the chance to get them earlier...like at least until the end of the mid game part of a campaign would be great.

Also i know i was very vocal about non barb units getting upgrades...i think the taurus catapult shouldn`t (bc the barbarians faction lack the skill to construct and transmute and whatever it is that is required for a catapult or scorpio or golem or hellhound). Perhaps you could simply give it some unique traits like a prototype and remove the upgrade path ( not making sense for rp reasons)

Enemy variety is good i really enjoyed fighting the diffrent factions...lizards were a pain in the **** and i reeeeaaaly do not like their enviroment but i still found some enjoyment there...like krell`s castle and stuff.

The AI although they make up in numbers what they lack in skill i feel the spellcasters do not work well with the ai troops. I dont know if it is bc of how they take turns or what logic is behind but in all cases i had transmuters cast lower armor as the last thing in the ai turn. If it were the first i would have probably lost the unit. Maybe you can make them use their debuff`s as a first action(s) in the turn, so their allies can take advantage of the debuff.

Onslaught 3/10

Well what i wrote above is true for this aswell. My only additions are:

Played Filos.Loved the way you had to make do with units you got randmly or trough choices...it really felt like you were salvaging a really bad situation and making friends were you could.

Most everything else i did not like not many artifacts and very basic ones i just had a cool new +2 morale and 100 health mask and that`s it. Maps can be very weird...i had a defence mission where a spider and a demonspawn spawned in an enclosed area of 3 hexes...sometimes outposts would spawn in the area you had to reach to win....waaay to many your hero must reach the exit point missions.

I missed the random story bits when taking a settlement or finding something on the map, and maybe enemies spawning. The entire campaign felt like a series of chained toghether random maps with barely any story or dialogue

I liked Tirea as a hero but the rest didnt make sense...i folowed harpies trough some caves and mountains only to rescue dolos or falirson with no bear...wtf happened...he ravaged the empire and got charmed by some harpies? made a little sense dolos was there since he split the campaign in invasion but falirson???

Got to fareach and i had a choice between tir and a transmuter ...just a regular transmuter not a named one...why would he be there since we wiped em all out months ago. Made a lot of sense that Tir would be invastigating the deamons there but just a regular transmuter...not so much.

Pacing is okay but maybe you could make the choices for extra heroes a little early...you get tir like before the final mision...it is kind of not worth it...it`s way better to get the resources you are missing for upgrades. Before geting tirea i played the first misions with just filos...maybe the last hero choice could be moved further to the front of the campaign so you have time to play with the composition of your army.

Demons felt cool...like a glass cannon unit...it was fun fighting them.
The last guy could have maybe goten a unique model or something.

The Heroes

Falirson (leader path) 9/10
Felt nice i played him as a mix of leader, spellcaster, and fighter, kind of a jack of all trades. He didnt excell in combat but he was not intended to so pretty cool.
The fact you can choose his path in the beggining also adds to his versatility.

Alisa 10/10
Very cool hero, i liked everything about her including the disagreements she had with my choices...and the fact that those actually have an effect on her. She can go damage spellcaster or summoner wich makes her very versatile, After the dragon mount she becomes posibly the best unit in the game, with good damage and range capabilities, great mobilty, high health, spellcasting. My favourite!

Doughal 8/10
Glass cannon guy...or the way i played him at least...pretty usefull but bc of his low health he became more of a support in the late game...i couldn`t really afford him getting caaught in the open or anything. Went for attuned and hero song, but i never used the transmutate armor, bc the -66% armor felt useless compared to his basic attack and the curse debuff...srsly i did not use that skill once. Overall i liked him and used him as a leader for my more stealthy contingent

Tir 9/10
Nice hybrid (like falirson) of troll leader damage dealer and spellcaster. i really liked her and was said to let her go. she only gets 9 bc she is not alysa and bc she leaves after the first 1/3 of the game. Loved the concept and execution of her had fun using her.

Ulnar 6/10
I found him mostly useless past early game, i dont know why his concept is cool but i feel his damage is extremly low for a guy with a big axe, his frenzy buff is good but that was it for me...i mostly used him for target practice especially for archers since they like to target him a lot. The desfigured debuff made it dificult pairing him with other units (except slayers or fearless troops ofc) The best thing about him was the buff he gives when he leaves.

Dolos 8/10
Very usefull good magic ranged attack, can be a mana generator for you with transmutate life especially versus the lizard newts and clubbers...Extremly usefull. Hope to see him more later as he was intresting and had an aura of mystery about him...what`s he really up to...why was he kicked out since the transmuters have no qualms aout who work for them...well very fun guy!

Macra 9.5 /10
One of the coolest heroes, veery strong very usefull can come with 2 free bodyguards of pegasi, army stances, flying, good damage, ranged defense support, the girl has everything going for her. Plus she`s a cool character. Almost Alisa level cool.

Filos 8/10
Basically falirson but without magical capabilities i used him very well as a cavalry leader. His skill tree is pretty small and you are kind of locked out of good choices. damage army stance is very usefull...you can steamroll pretty much everything with that, his aura and a warbanner.
He needs some love on his skill tree. :)

Tirea 10/10
The ultimate support hero i found her to be a must have...i would choose her in any situation over everyone. Pathfinder, good battle skills, can get harraser, can get centaur body guards, can also go good on defence, has the point blank ability. I truly hope she becomes the template from wich you make the new heroes for EA campaign.

Units.

I wont go one by one i`ll take categories.

Barbarian axemen/h axemen 2/10
Compred to what the rest of the tree has to offer thees guys feel useless their only saving grace is in soaking up arrow fire and harrasing charge breaker enemies. would pick everything else above them

Barbarian beserker line 10/10
Strong fast reliable working as intended very fun to play and use, make short work of almost everythin. I ran 2 cleavers/1 werebear...most fun squads i had.

Stag Line 10/10
Really cool really usefull, strong all arround

Maidens 9/10.
I feel they struggle a bit at their intender role but nevertheless very good

Wolfmother 10/10
Really great support hero, her warg ability is insane especially paired with the wand with strong summons, i had a field day summoning all sorts of spiders and pegasi and whatever else i needed!

Slingers 9/10
Liked both varaints but used the magic damage more bc of the 1 extra range. Overall weaker than their empire counterparts

Air units...did not use a lot of them but i loved the monster hunters bc of their 2 artifact slot and with handola statue, crom machnars armor, a regen trait i got on them, and a mask of fear (with the 1 extra artifact training) those guys were my unkilable tanks that almost 1 shot dragons and never died. plus a bit of support with net so...
Monster Hunters 11/10

Imperials. 9/10
Loved the imperial cavalry line, mediocre infantry except for top tier and godly archers...well rounded up, fun to use

Centaurs. only used the ranged pathfinder guy and it feels too strong...also range 3 is out of place i feel, maybe ranged 2 and a trait that gives more damage after moving like from the momentum of them charging arround and firing on the move?
Centaur Archers 10/10

Melee i never bothered with them, i just used tireas to scout and soak up damage or as fodder.

Did not get a chance to use the lizard ppl, and i probably would only use the devourer or shaman. since the rest are too reliant on watery enviroments.

Fiew that was a long one, once again congratulations i reaaaaly enjoyed the game as a whole.
I`ll make a small whishlist at the bottom if you all dont mind.

For the future:

More skills/higher level cap
More varied artifacts
More unique aquirable traits
More world map events and bonus units
Less procedurally genned maps.

Have fun while doing it

VirgilInTheSKY
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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Re: Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by VirgilInTheSKY » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:20 pm

About bonus units: Yes there are only two of them, Medred's Kninves can appear early while Taurus Catapult is set to be late game, after you make it into the empire, though both can be affected by rng and even not show up in a whole playthrough.

About reward heroes in Onslaught: Nah that's just some rng, you can get whatever heroes wherever you are, since there is no tag to tell this. Onslaught is designed to forcus more on replayability than story, because Invasion lacks that.

About Ulnar: He works better as a trainer due to the Fearless and Slayer promotions he provides, and his Berserker Leader Aura. Enemy units usually tend to target the one they can do the highest damage first, resulting 0 Armour berserkers mostly targeted by archers. btw, there is a Steam Achievement for keeping him until the end, though this means you have to give up Marcra as he refuse to fight with an imperial.

Something else: Slingers have higher damage than their imperial counterparts with their Point Blank bonus, while lower damage on long range.
Barbarian All Terrain training can make mounted and amphibious units also move as fast as other units on terrains they are not good at, say, dry land for lizards.
I would like to argue that imperial cavalries are the worst choice in the three branches, their damage relies heavily on charge damage and terrains usually don't allows that since AI will take break charge terrains first before attack, while the barbarian Stag Chargers ignores zoc and have magic javelins to do AA and skirmish attacks. Of course they are good when you don't have accesss to troll and centaur units and are in need of a shock cavalry, but that's all.

Nithral
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
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Re: Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by Nithral » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:27 pm

I used my one imperial knight as both tank and damage dealer...they have charge breaking so they are good at holding the line, and also their charge can be very strong but does require patience and a bit of positioning.
For example in the last onslaught i used 2 of them to criss cross the demonspawn ranks...6 unit wipes in 2 moves.

Arent
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Re: Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by Arent » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:09 pm

Nithral wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:13 pm

Invasion 10/10

Very good campaign, the story is intriguing and kept me in the "just one more mission" mindset.
The pacing of the campaign is very good as it feels like you are growing from a clan warband to a multi-clan army.

[...]

Onslaught 3/10

The entire campaign felt like a series of chained toghether random maps with barely any story or dialogue
That's basically exactly my thoughts.

I really liked the initial main campaign. The randomly generated onslaught campaign maps feel dull. I know that some people argue generated maps would allow for more 'replayability', but for me the contrary is true: I replayed the main campaign three times, and it was still fun. I didn't finish the onslaught campaign.

Nithral
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Re: Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by Nithral » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:12 pm

Well onslaught has a problem in keeping you conected to your army, unlike invasion. parts of onslaught are fun like the random units, esp if you go filos and you rp as a guy gathering whatever strenght he can in a ravaged empire...but other than that...it kinda has no soul

OBG_primetide
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Re: Invasion/Onslaught Feedback

Post by OBG_primetide » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:36 am

Well, I think Onslaught caters more to people who like challenge over story/campaign. The next DLC will feature another epic campaign with loads of decisions and story while also giving very good replayability, so I think that will be more up your alley.
Making Fantasy General 2

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