Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS games

Moderator: Slitherine Core

MesaDon
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:53 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by MesaDon » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:01 pm

As for support on games check 2K games on IOS Sid Meyers Pirates, both Ace Patrols, Civilization, X-Com Enemy Within and others. The ones I named are PREMIUM GAMES with prices associated with that, unlike Slitherine they will not reply or explain why they do not change from 32 to 64 bits, here you can ask, complain, and harass plus you get replies. I was upset but understand and still support this company, who else could sell you a PC game and beside that version allow you to also download a Mac version without charging double. I understand the App Store does not allow that based on questions on these forums ages ago. I started playing board games on hexwars and I believe it was Ian who turn me on to first Fields of Glory and how responsive they are in the forums to us, the best I have ever seen. What I mean to say is based on years of stellar service there comes a time to cut some slack for this company.

DonCzirr
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by DonCzirr » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:35 pm

Bottom line is that it all comes down to this

(From a previous conversation on these forums):

*************************************************************************************************************************

Re: Will iOS 64 Bit Support come for iOS 11?

Postby IainMcNeil » 30 Jun 2017 11:25




DonCzirr wrote:
"Significant" games such as Commander the Great War, BA2, P&S dying off on the platform - being replaced with cartoonish card games and lighter simulations (Carrier Deck).


The reason we don't bring more of these type of games to iOS is they don't sell. When BA first released we thought iOS would be a great new platform for strategy games and we outsold PC 10 to 1. We brought a range of other games across but BA was a blip and nothing repeated its success and the cost to make iOS games is just not worth the sales. The platform has transition to almost entirely free to play. Look at the charts and you'll see the number of paid games in the top 100 is very low.

The throw in the curve balls Apple throws you that are entirely out of your control and it just doesn't currently make sense.

********************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I admit that I made an investment in a newer Apple IOS device and will still have an interest in seeing Slitherine push out significant products on that platform - but for the most part, won't expect it.

They have to do what is profitable.

On the other hand, I do believe there is a future for mobile (war) gaming, so would like to see some future investment by Slitherine to make beta testing for Windows Surface devices part of their release routine.

Not trying to tell you how to run your business - just an honest customer, letting his vendor know what would be appealing in the future .....
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

donkeyfumbler
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by donkeyfumbler » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:00 pm

pipfromslitherine wrote:Guys, we have answered this in considerable detail. The idea that rewriting major chunks of the game, because Apple have stripped out support in the OS, is 'support' three years later is absurd. The game got many free updates, additions, and fixes after release. Almost no other games allow cross platform play, or the downloading of mods. But yes, please question our integrity.

Frankly this kind of abuse certainly does nothing to make us want to keep making iOS games.

Cheers

Pip
Hi Pip,

I think you're getting overly upset here and I'm not sure why. Nothing that has been said so far would constitute 'abuse' as far as I can see. There are a few people upset that they won't be able to play games when they update and then saying, as they are entitled to, that they will think twice about buying future games - I don't think that is unreasonable.

Personally, I can appreciate that there is a considerable amount of effort that would be involved in updating some of your games and that it's also not unreasonable to say that as you have supported them for three years after release, then this is enough to meet the expectations of your customers.

The issue I have is that I bought Battle Academy 2 in December 2016 - well after Slitherine would have known that not only would it not be supported only nine months later but that it would be unplayable when people updated to IOS 11 and yet this information was nowhere to be found on the App Store page or anywhere else. In fact I believe (and I may be wrong, in which case please correct me) that this info was only added shortly at about the time the IOS 11 beta was released. Had you not decided to keep this information from us, I would not have bought the game (or at least I would not have bought it on IOS). Carrying on selling the game while knowing all of this but not revealing it until the very last minute, presumably to maximise sales, does not reflect well on the company at all.

In these circumstances, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask whether you are prepared to do anything to 'make this good' by offering PC keys to those people who bought the games on IOS and raised this with you. This is highly unlikely to cost you any money or lost sales but would instead go a long way to repairing the customer goodwill you have lost.

Iain has said he is looking at this, but it seems to be taking some time. I appreciate that some games will be hard as they do not have online multiplayer or the need to create accounts, so there is no way of tracking who might be a genuine customer.

However, with Battle Academy 2 I would very much doubt that it is not possible to verify that I (or anyone else) have not bought the game on IOS if they have logged on at least once using their Slitherine account. I can even send you a copy of my receipt from the appstore. The delay in sorting this out is making me think, and I'd be happy to apologise if I'm wrong here, that it's more a question that you won't rather than that you can't and that is very disappointing having been a Slitherine customer for several years now.

Cheers.

irishal
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by irishal » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:37 pm

If you really wanted to resolve this you could. All itunes account show the purchase history, a user could send you a screenshot showing purchase and account. You could then provide a steam key.

Really depends if you wanna solve the issue or not.

Presently, I have 20 apps on my Ipad not compatible with IOS 11. Twelve of those are from matrix/slitherine. Pretty poor really.

DonCzirr
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by DonCzirr » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:26 pm

I wonder if a screen shot from the Storage section in Settings would suffice?

In the left hand column at the top (which can be scrolled while still showing the Storage / App space usage on the right side), it shows the Apple ID for the iPAD.

What do you think Slitherine folks?
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

VPaulus
Slitherine
Slitherine
Posts: 7939
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:33 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by VPaulus » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:57 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:There are hundreds of thousands of iOS users out there so we can't have any form of manual processing or it simply would not get done.

irishal
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by irishal » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:12 pm

VPaulus wrote:
IainMcNeil wrote:There are hundreds of thousands of iOS users out there so we can't have any form of manual processing or it simply would not get done.
Its also not getting done any other way. Like I said, depends if the company wishes to resolve it or not.

Up to them really, I'll vote with my wallet.

Cheers

DonCzirr
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by DonCzirr » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:28 pm

VPaulus wrote:
IainMcNeil wrote:There are hundreds of thousands of iOS users out there so we can't have any form of manual processing or it simply would not get done.
This is a niche industry and this process would likely stay contained mostly within this community.

So there's a bit of hyperbole going on there, claiming that hundreds of thousands would need to be processed.
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

Chiefmagua
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:58 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by Chiefmagua » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:57 pm

I am just plain old sad. My iPad Slitherine games were my favorites and I spent many hours playing them.

I’m gonna miss that.

Chief

best75
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:15 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by best75 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:48 am

I think something should be done because if nothing is done than I will have to reconsider buying any iOS games from slitherine in the future and many other people likely will too.

DonCzirr
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by DonCzirr » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:28 pm

best75 wrote:I think something should be done because if nothing is done than I will have to reconsider buying any iOS games from slitherine in the future and many other people likely will too.

That may be the best course - and I'm not saying that to "zing" Slitherine or cause them any agitation, but as you can see from the above quotes, this platform is really not working out for them in terms of significant games, so they are only going to be publishing lighter fare for more casual audiences.

Other options for wargamers may include:

- Android : The "Conflicts" series by Joni Nuutinen. A wide variety of war games on different subjects available. The graphics are not the best - but good substantial war game content.

- On IOS : Look for better releases from Hexwar. Some of their stuff is ok now. And they are making better stuff in the future such as Command and Colors Ancients

- On IOS: Hope that Battle Factory Wars and Battles resumes. They had some good offerings with Normandy and October War 73 but their production halted when the Dev lead got sick.

Personally - I will take it on a game by game basis with Slitherine.

After looking around a bit, there seems to be no industry standard on mobile game support.

From practical examples, there is a lot of different behaviors out there : From the marvelous Trese Brothers Games who are still posting patches and content updates on products 5 + years old ---> to folks who drop support pretty much after initial release.

At 3 years of support, Slitherine seems to fit in the middle.

No ill will from me to Slitherine then - they are not my buddies to go out have a drink with, they are a vendor who sometimes do things I like, sometimes not. I will spend accordingly.
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

best75
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:15 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by best75 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:20 am

DonCzirr wrote:
best75 wrote:I think something should be done because if nothing is done than I will have to reconsider buying any iOS games from slitherine in the future and many other people likely will too.

That may be the best course - and I'm not saying that to "zing" Slitherine or cause them any agitation, but as you can see from the above quotes, this platform is really not working out for them in terms of significant games, so they are only going to be publishing lighter fare for more casual audiences.

Other options for wargamers may include:

- Android : The "Conflicts" series by Joni Nuutinen. A wide variety of war games on different subjects available. The graphics are not the best - but good substantial war game content.

- On IOS : Look for better releases from Hexwar. Some of their stuff is ok now. And they are making better stuff in the future such as Command and Colors Ancients

- On IOS: Hope that Battle Factory Wars and Battles resumes. They had some good offerings with Normandy and October War 73 but their production halted when the Dev lead got sick.
The hexwar series of games never satisfied me. Their games seemed too simple and scenarios too short.
Its been a awhile since Wars and Battles released their last scenario pack. Was really looking forward to Kharkov and their future packs, seems unlikely they will release since its been so long now

DonCzirr
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by DonCzirr » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:22 pm

best75 wrote:
DonCzirr wrote:
best75 wrote:I think something should be done because if nothing is done than I will have to reconsider buying any iOS games from slitherine in the future and many other people likely will too.

That may be the best course - and I'm not saying that to "zing" Slitherine or cause them any agitation, but as you can see from the above quotes, this platform is really not working out for them in terms of significant games, so they are only going to be publishing lighter fare for more casual audiences.

Other options for wargamers may include:

- Android : The "Conflicts" series by Joni Nuutinen. A wide variety of war games on different subjects available. The graphics are not the best - but good substantial war game content.

- On IOS : Look for better releases from Hexwar. Some of their stuff is ok now. And they are making better stuff in the future such as Command and Colors Ancients

- On IOS: Hope that Battle Factory Wars and Battles resumes. They had some good offerings with Normandy and October War 73 but their production halted when the Dev lead got sick.
The hexwar series of games never satisfied me. Their games seemed too simple and scenarios too short.
Its been a awhile since Wars and Battles released their last scenario pack. Was really looking forward to Kharkov and their future packs, seems unlikely they will release since its been so long now
Well - some Hexwar games have "meat" / quality to them such as Arnhem and C & C TWG.

But they certainly don't measure up to games like Commander the Great War on IOS.

While the reasons for Slitherine largely exiting IOS have been reprinted above, I have to believe, that in this world where technology is making devices ever smaller and more mobile, that they'll not give mobile gaming more emphasis in the future.

My bet, is that they would make stronger efforts on the Windows Surface device platform.

It's Windows, not Apple - it can work with Steam etc .....

But the question is when?
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

cchesak
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:40 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by cchesak » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:47 am

Oh, this is sad, sad news. I was a Squad Leader guy way back in the day (still have my old games, expansion packs, extra boards, etc.) and was overjoyed when someone finally brought those games to life digitally. BA/BA2 has been my go to game for all sorts of sanity breaks for a few years now. So bummed to just have to so abruptly kiss them goodbye - although I can only imagine what Apple dictates with each new OS upgrade.

And thanks to DonCzirr for all the great, thoughtful commentary in the discourse above.

MesaDon
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:53 am
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by MesaDon » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:56 am

Could never figure out the strange fascination with Steam, the having to always be connected to the internet, DRM, using up extra computer resources by using another program (besides the computer operationing system) t o be able to use the program you want to run in the first place, plus that Steam will update there program which has and can put bugs into the Steam client. I prefer my Slitherine games straight from the publisher. Sadly no one guarantees that games will always be updated for any eventuality. We replaced VHS with DVD and no one expected that they would get free DVDs. We keep having to replace televisions because of technology advances - people complain b it they don’t ask for replacement televisions. Why do we expect a software company to basically give away software because of technology advances. Irritating- of course- but a time comes to get over the disappointment and move on.
I will continue to support Slitherine with the expectation that nothing lasts for ever but I’m gonna enjoy the ride while I can.

yosefbenami
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:45 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by yosefbenami » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:41 pm

I understand that a company must go to where the money is. I also understand that Apple has never been a priority among game developers because of a smaller (but enthusiastic) user base. But with the release of the very successful iPad, I thought that developers would realize that they now had a larger market to appeal to, especially with the drop in usership of desktop and laptop computers for gaming. The large number of gaming apps on the ipad seemed to prove that the gaming market was shifting to tablets and consoles which was very good news for Mac users who wanted more games to choose from compared to the restrictive market for Mac desktop and laptop users. Many Mac owners also own iPads.
I appreciated Slitherine’s entrance into the Mac market and enthusiastically supported the company with purchases of almost every Mac product. I also appreciate all the effort the company has made to support users of their products. However I saw the ‘handwriting on the wall’ quite some time ago that Slitherine, like many other companies before it, made it very obvious that it was going to dump the Mac as a platform. I patiently waited for the products promised for the Mac but they never seemed to materialize. I got tired of waiting, and when these products appeared on the iPad, I eventually bought them for my iPad thinking that the Mac might get dumped by Slitherine but the larger iPad market would not disappear and I could still purchase products such as ‘Panzer Corp’ that would run on my iPad. I was wrong. Slitherine seems to be dumping Apple hardware on every platform.
Several users have suggested solutions such as offering ‘steam keys’ for Slitherine IOS products so that the user can run your software using either PC or Mac versions. I truely hope you will consider this suggestion because it could very well be a good temporary solution while you work on keeping the IOS market for Slitherine products intact as you develop 64-bit compatability. And cost is not an objection from this potential buyer. But I fear that this is not on your agenda and I also fear that you are heading for, as we say in the USA, a ‘major business fail’. I hope not. Slitherine is by far my favorite software developer and I hope that you will not disappear from the short list of MacOS/IOS product developers.
I feel I also need to address your concern about the demise of 32-bit coding. I am not sure I understand this position that Slitherine has taken. The change to 64-bit has been happening for years on all platforms. Apple had made no secret that all devices it makes would be 64-bit compatible including tablets and phones. It certainly was no surprise to me. I also do not understand what the conversion problem is all about. 32-bit conversion is not that hard, I though. I have not written code for a very long time but I didn’t think that it was very difficult to change pointer links in 32-bit software to work on 64-bit machines. I thought that all 64-bit architecture supports 32-bit software. Can’t Apple help with this? Or perhaps that ask for too much money for developer kits?
I also do not understand why the harsh words about Apple as a company. Computer technology changes rapidly. MacOS and IOS is no different from Windows OS in that the operating systems are constantly evolving. In fact Apple has been somewhat late in the game of conversion to 64-bit computing. If you are looking for an excuse to dump Apple products then just be done with it and let we, the users of Slitherine software know, so that we can move on.
FInally, I truely hope you can solve this problem for all of your loyal MacOS/IOS customers. I, for one, will certainly not give up and hope for the best for Slitherine.

UPDATE - After updating to IOS 11, I tested the Slitherine apps on my iPad. These did not work: CTGW, Great Battles Medieval, Pike & Shot, and Legion. These worked: Panzer Corps, Armageddon, Vietnam '65, & Heroes of Normandie. The Apple App Store notes that Battle Academy and Battle Academy 2 will not work under IOS 11. Luckily I have the Mac versions of these games.

Baclaw
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:27 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by Baclaw » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:33 pm

I didn't know of Slitherine's games until I got my first iPad. I fell in love with them, bought expansion packs, and played them a lot. I'm really going to miss some of them, and will miss others that I didn't yet buy. And it really sucks when a business model gets in the way.

That being said, I joined the forums today to tell Slitherine thanks for spending your time developing for iOS. I wouldn't have found you otherwise. Maybe I'll be able to give you more of my cash in the future for your great games, whether that's on iOS or some other platform.

Cheers!

Shaele
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by Shaele » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:04 pm

So far I have refrained from updating to iOS 11 so I can continue playing BA and BA2 with my nephew on the iPad,

I've seen a lot of comments on here regarding the update, feeling entitled enough to level abuse towards slitherine as they won't release a 64 bit version (which is in their right), comments about how slitherine is treating their iOS fan base poorly (yes customers are very entitled and selfish these days).

Personally I am sad at the impending loss of these games on my iPad. I know they were looking into a scenario where they provide cheap steam keys to existing iOS users, but Apple wasn't forthcoming with that information, and likely won't.

Again, slitherine doesn't 'owe' us iPad users a thing. Software comes and goes, gets outdated, and disappears into the past, no matter how much we wish otherwise. I have games from the 80's and 90's I wish I could play again, but I wouldn't think of being such an ass as to say those companies owe me an updated or free version.

But one solution to this, which IS in Slitherines control, is to post a message in these forums saying that BA and/or BA2 is heavily discounted on Steam for a few days. Don't advertise anywhere else. Chances are that these two games aren't big sellers on steam anymore. If they give 50-75% off the two games and dlc for a week, a lot of the iPad users will pick them up and feel a bit like they got a deal. Should alleviate a lot of the hatred. Slitherine still makes some money on people rebuying the software. And sure, a few new users may buy it at the heavily discounted price that didn't have iPads, but so be it, it's still extra money, and they may not have bought them otherwise.

After the big sale, slitherine can point to that and say we took care of our iPad users. Complaints from other users after the fact will just be out of luck, as they missed the chance.

Personally I don't care about a steam sale or not. I'm going to avoid upgrading to iOS 11 for as long as possible, as I really don't feel a need to do so. When I am forced into the update and no longer have BA or BA2 available to play, I'll probably just buy them on steam at whatever cost, as the hours of enjoyment with my nephew is worth $60 or whatever. A sale would likely just make me buy them sooner though.

cchesak
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:40 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by cchesak » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:03 pm

So... now that we sadly bid BA adieu, anyone have any recommendations of other games to turn to? Panzer Corps?

IainMcNeil
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13498
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:19 am

Re: Will Slitherine give Steam keys t customers losing iOS g

Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:50 am

Shaele wrote: But one solution to this, which IS in Slitherines control, is to post a message in these forums saying that BA and/or BA2 is heavily discounted on Steam for a few days. Don't advertise anywhere else. Chances are that these two games aren't big sellers on steam anymore. If they give 50-75% off the two games and dlc for a week, a lot of the iPad users will pick them up and feel a bit like they got a deal. Should alleviate a lot of the hatred. Slitherine still makes some money on people rebuying the software. And sure, a few new users may buy it at the heavily discounted price that didn't have iPads, but so be it, it's still extra money, and they may not have bought them otherwise.

After the big sale, slitherine can point to that and say we took care of our iPad users. Complaints from other users after the fact will just be out of luck, as they missed the chance.

Personally I don't care about a steam sale or not. I'm going to avoid upgrading to iOS 11 for as long as possible, as I really don't feel a need to do so. When I am forced into the update and no longer have BA or BA2 available to play, I'll probably just buy them on steam at whatever cost, as the hours of enjoyment with my nephew is worth $60 or whatever. A sale would likely just make me buy them sooner though.
We did consider doing something like this and giving a big discount to people, but decided against it as we were pretty sure the people that are complaining would see this as a an attempt to take money off of them. We couldn't think of anything we could do that would not result in creating a bigger backlash so we decided to do nothing. Its unfortunate that the internet works like this but we have to work with how the world works, not how we'd like it to be.

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”