Britcon 2015

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spotteddog
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Britcon 2015

Post by spotteddog » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:20 pm

Hi Folks
Anyone know if the 6 battle troop foot bases per artillery piece thing will apply for Britcon. I think Nik has pretty much confirmed there'll be be no points revision before the Basho.
HH

madaxeman
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by madaxeman » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:19 pm

The 6-foot per artillery will be the only non-standard restriction in use
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spotteddog
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by spotteddog » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:31 pm

Thanks MA.
HH

urbanbunny1
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by urbanbunny1 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:11 pm

So,

artillery fires six foot?

alasdair2204
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by alasdair2204 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:14 pm

Surely the original argument re this was to make the armies balanced therefore shouldn't there be a minimum of mounted units as well, say three otherwise it is only the mounted armies that are being affected, all infantry armies are fine, maybe 4 mounted & 6 foot bases per gun. The only reason I for example take guns is because you haven't got a chance vs pike and shot otherwise (I don't take artillery in the pre P & S period) so this restriction makes Britcon an infantry fest

cheers

Alasdair

spotteddog
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by spotteddog » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:46 pm

just wanted to get this out there well in advance of the basho so we could nail it down before folks start dreaming up lists. if there is to be a consultation i'll happily go with hm's idea.
hh

marshalney2000
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by marshalney2000 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:38 am

Alasdair, I read your post last night and thought that when I went back in this morning that the message boards would be jammed out with messages of support demanding that this rule be revoked forthwith so that the stars could once again take their place in the firmament. Surprisingly their is nought, zilch nay even zero. Never fear tis early yet.
By the way have you ever used an army at Britcon that did not have minimum foot, maximum dragoons, lots of mounted and dare I say it (dare, dare) lots of artillery? Not being sarky but genuinely curious.
John

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by marshalney2000 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:49 am

In all fairness, I should point out that the other regular member of the Perth Mafia, Mr Hunter Hope esq. (VC and first at the bar) who raised this topic in the first place is strongly of the opinion that the infantry/ artillery restriction should not be imposed at Britcon.
Hunter assures me that he has reached this view after a full and unbiased review of all the facts. Particularly the fact that the army he is currently painting has minimum infantry, 5 units of dragoons, piles of mounted and lots of heavy guns. Off course it would never be Hunter's intention to use this at Britcon. I predict an African spearman army for him.
John

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by gibby » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:12 pm

I read it too.
Personally I don't care what restrictions /additions etc are made as long as they don't have the stupid " Play a weaker player in the first game and start the tourney with 25 points rule" Unless we were going back to Seeding.

On a rules/lists level I actually think the current modification makes sense and I am comfortable with it always being there. In terms of the period with armies marching to battles etc - I don't see that the Trayne would be up with the horse but more likely to be with the foote.
So yes unbalanced Cav armies are more likely to have left the Trayne behind. We are not in the Napoleonic period yet with Horse artillery etc.

So I don't see the objective as having balanced armies and see no need to link Mounted bases to artillery just simply say minimum 3 mounted units.

My opinion - best renaissance rules out - but Lists are too loose and just about everything to do with artillery is slightly off.
cheers

spotteddog
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by spotteddog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:57 pm

i think we're all agreed that fog r is the bees nees. i dont really mind what restrictions apply and will play an army that'll be fun and have a decent chance of a good showing anyway. john just doesnt like being beat by my french!

hh

marshalney2000
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by marshalney2000 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:20 pm

Actually I beat your French despite you fiddling the interception charge rules to suit your self. I will not embarrass you by going Into detail.
John

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by madaxeman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:18 pm

The lack of comprehension by players in all periods in regard to the aim of the "nemesis" rule has been truly staggering.

Rest assured that it will not be re-occurring....!
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alasdair2204
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by alasdair2204 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:48 am

gibby wrote:I read it too.
Personally I don't care what restrictions /additions etc are made as long as they don't have the stupid " Play a weaker player in the first game and start the tourney with 25 points rule" Unless we were going back to Seeding.

On a rules/lists level I actually think the current modification makes sense and I am comfortable with it always being there. In terms of the period with armies marching to battles etc - I don't see that the Trayne would be up with the horse but more likely to be with the foote.
So yes unbalanced Cav armies are more likely to have left the Trayne behind. We are not in the Napoleonic period yet with Horse artillery etc.

So I don't see the objective as having balanced armies and see no need to link Mounted bases to artillery just simply say minimum 3 mounted units.

My opinion - best renaissance rules out - but Lists are too loose and just about everything to do with artillery is slightly off.
cheers

Would be happy with foot gun restriction combined with a minimum of 3 mounted

Cheers

Alasdair

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by alasdair2204 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:58 am

marshalney2000 wrote:Alasdair, I read your post last night and thought that when I went back in this morning that the message boards would be jammed out with messages of support demanding that this rule be revoked forthwith so that the stars could once again take their place in the firmament. Surprisingly their is nought, zilch nay even zero. Never fear tis early yet.
By the way have you ever used an army at Britcon that did not have minimum foot, maximum dragoons, lots of mounted and dare I say it (dare, dare) lots of artillery? Not being sarky but genuinely curious.
John
It varies, enjoy mounted so play with mounted, know britcon will be mostly Pike and Shot so have to bring guns , Of the top of my head at Britcon played Late Imperial Austrian twice (so no dragoons) TYW Germans once, last year was a bit of an odd ball as lots of comments about Determined Horse so wanted to see if they could work, to be fair never use guns in the pre 1570 period which is quite common down south.

Cheers

Alasdair

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by madaxeman » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:22 pm

The only other trial variation we are considering is as follows:

"Captured / uncontrolled artillery may be be permanently removed in the JAP by any (un-engaged) unit currently in contact with them"

Can anyone spot any major issues that might arise if we give this a go ?
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daveallen
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by daveallen » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:27 pm

The only problem I see is if both sides have a BG in contact with said Artillery.

Let's say that artillery can only be disposed of in this way if the enemy aren't also in contact with it.

Dave

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by madaxeman » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:09 pm

If both sides have units in contact with it, the units would either

- be engaged with each other anyway, so no problem.
- probably be two opposing units of horse who are separated by the artificial surreality of uncontrolled artillery, and so are currently totally unable to fight despite being within spitting distance of each other. Which is nuts. Even before you get into the whole madness of the "I need to move away so I can "contact" it again to recapture it from you" idiocy....

If either side has the ability to choose to remove the artillery in the latter situation (so they'd be able to start fighting) surely that would be a good thing ?
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by daveallen » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:41 pm

Then why not just dispose of the artillery in the phase it's captured?

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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by madaxeman » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:30 pm

- To create some sort of delay in spiking it at the very least,
- To avoid anyone saying its gone and trying to continue their move.
- Because it sort of feels like JAP thing
- To stop someone re-capturing it with/from horse, and then choosing not to remove it to protect their own horse from an enemy charge in the next phase
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Re: Britcon 2015

Post by daveallen » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:46 pm

madaxeman wrote:- To create some sort of delay in spiking it at the very least,
Okay, then I'd assume the spiking needs some freedom of action. Consider the following situation:

xxx x :evil: :evil: :evil:
xx :arrow: :arrow:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Where
:arrow: = Artillery
:evil: = Supporting foot - slightly offset because the adjacent BG has just been broken
:mrgreen: = enemy that have just captured :arrow: and are fighting :evil:

I think it would be pushing it a bit for :mrgreen: to spike the guns literally under the noses of :evil: .

This is a far more likely instance of two opposing BGs being in contact with Artillery than the opposing Horse situation.

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