Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

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Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:21 pm

March 8 - 15mm Early Renaissance event.

More details to follow.
Nik Gaukroger

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by rayd » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:28 pm

This clashes with the WMMMS Wolverhampton ("Alumwell"). I will opt for Oxford, but it may be an issue for others. Ray

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:41 pm

Ray,

Thanks. Dene also mentioned this but we have a limited list of club days - so needs must I am afraid.

Tom

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:49 pm

Ideas for this round.

As announced we plan this to be Eatly Renaissance. Three ideas have been proposed in our club and I should be grateful to get the views and votes of anyone who may be able to attend on March 8.

But firstly I should say that we propose to make no change to the general rules as used this year. They seemed to work well. I shall republish them for reference idc.


The theme ideas are,

1. Italian wars, just allowing armies from those nations actually involved; Spanish, French, Maximilian, Italian and Venetian
2. Kiel, any army provided it fields at least two Kiel’s.
3. The British, any army from the British Isles before 1620


Your choice please!

Tom

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 am

Selfishly due to figure limitations I'd go for 2.
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Nik,

Thanks for the first vote. At Oxford we had a one vote for each. I am keeping my vote as casting if need be.

Tom

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by spedders » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:11 pm

Happy with any but 3 sounds interesting!

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:20 pm

Thanks for votes so far. Meanwhile here are the rules (same as last year)

Rules for the 2020 Rounds of the Oxford FOG R Southern League
Wolvercote Village Hall, Wolvercote Green, Oxford, Oxon, OX2 8BD
The number of entries is limited, first come first served, by email to t.elsworth@btopenworld.com
Please send all army lists to t.elsworth@btopenworld.com not later than 2 weeks before the event
The events in 2020
March 8, Three ideas, vote underway (Dec 2019):-
• Italian Wars 1494 to 1550, Maximilian, French, Spanish, Italian, Venetian, all Italian options only
• Kiel, any army with at least 2 kiels
• British wars, any British Isles army before 1620
May 10, ECW , Confederate Irish, Early Royalist, Later Royalist, Scots Royalist, Parliamentarian, New Model Army, Scots Covenanter
July 12, Any army from the Americas before 1620 – no muskets
October 11, Open 25mm


Format of the day and the games.

The 15mm events will be 650 points on a 5ft x3 ft table.

The 25mm event will be 650 points on a 7.5ft x 4.5ft table with the MU at 40mm

3x2.5hour battles

Deployment zones:
Flank zone will be 10MU wide for 15mm and 12MU for 25mm, rear zone will be 4 MU deep.
Deployment depth will be 10MU for battle troops and 15MU for light troops

Terrain:
Players create terrain using the normal rules but number of extra pieces is reduced to a maximum of 3.
25mm terrain pieces are 15mm game size.

Note that for 25mm the depth of baggage is reduced by half (i.e. use 3 baggage elements)


.
Timetable for the games: -
1st Round 9.00am to 11.30am
30-minute break
2nd Round 12.00 am to 2.30pm
30 -minute break
3rd Round 3.00 pm to 5.30pm (we only have the hall until 6.00pm)

Fees
These meetings are being held on regular Oxford club Sundays (hence limited spaces). Price for the day, to include tea, coffee etc and to fund prizes is £10


Tom

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by TrevAllen » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:32 pm

I am looking to do a few of the Oxford events in 2020. However, the options here for March are not any I can do at the moment. I do have an Italian Wars army about 1/4 painted, and obviously could make this work. The same army may be able to do option 2 as well as option 1.

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:29 pm

Thanks, I think I can take that as a vote equally for options 1 and 2.

T

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by viking123 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:09 pm

We can help with armies if helps.

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:49 pm

Dear all, unless anyone has a huge desire to submit further votes I plan to call this as decided on option 2 - any army that is allowed at least two kiels. It was however by a very short head, one vote. So am prepared to accept calls for a recount. We need to decide soonest however so final decision to be made this weekend.

Last chance!

T

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by Buzz0000 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm

I am ok with this suggestion (as I am only a provisional player for the tournament, cannot confirm until nearer the time).

Out of interest, does anyone have a headline list of the qualifying Armies meeting the minimum 2 Kiels criteria?

thanks

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by donm2 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:31 pm

tjelsworth wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:49 pm
Dear all, unless anyone has a huge desire to submit further votes I plan to call this as decided on option 2 - any army that is allowed at least two kiels. It was however by a very short head, one vote. So am prepared to accept calls for a recount. We need to decide soonest however so final decision to be made this weekend.

Last chance!

T
Tom if it helps I will vote option 2 as I don't have an army for any of the options I am going to have to borrow something either way.

An idea of what lists qualify would help greatly.

Don.

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 pm

Thanks all. List of qualifying >= 2 Kiel armies to follow. I shall also post a list of all the special Kiel rules so as to create the proverbial level playing field ( just what a Kiel needs).

Tom

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by Buzz0000 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:56 pm

Tom - are you referring to the Graham Briggs "Kiel Spiel" document from a few years ago? If so I have a "revised" version from 2017 (not sure if it needs still further revision), I will send on email for you to review.

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:27 am

David,

Yes, thanks I shall take a look.

T

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:30 am

Dear all,

here is my take on the armies allowed for the March 8 Kiels competition.

"Any army in Trade and Treachery except Border Reivers, Irish, Anglo-Irish, North African States and Elizabethan English"

Anyone think differently?

T

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by tjelsworth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:48 pm

And here is the Kiel information sheet to which I and David Burrows referred. Grateful for review of this and any commenst or updates.

many thanks

T

“Keil Spiel” by Graham Briggs
Clarified & Expanded by David Burrows (Nov 2017)


1 Troops: Shock Troops
Keils are Shock Troops.
Note: Keils retain this status (for combat POAs, enemy cohesion tests, enemy unable to disengage from melee etc) unless Keil is Fragmented or Severely Disordered. Pg.25
2 Battle Group Formations
In mixed BGs each troop type must be in rectangular formations not intermingled, must be facing same direction and only the rear rank is allowed fewer bases. Pg.28, 2nd para
3 Battle Groups: Keils
Definition of Keil. BG must have at least 2+ files of 4+ bases. At least 2+ of the bases must be Pike, the rest Pike, HW or Sw.
Note: Some Swiss troops are named “Pike Keils”. However, the special rules for Keils are defined by capability and formation.
Note: A Kiel ceases to become a Kiel when it has only enough bases to be below the minimum legal formation of 2 x 4 = 8 bases
Note: For combat POA +, they must have 4 base depth (minimum 2 files width). Pg.29,
Top
4 Movement By Division
Keils don’t need a base gap between them to be in a division (they can be touching). But they can still be in a division if there is a gap of between 0MU up to 4MU. A commander must be with one BG in the division and all BGs within the command radius for a Division move. Pg.42,
1st and 2nd bullet
5 Playing the Game
Keils will frequently be Grand Battle Groups (more than 12 bases).
Note: This is not a special rule just for Keils (see also Pg.50
6 General Movement Rules
Keils cannot do a 90-degree turn. To turn, they must do a Formation Change, which is a complex move; and requires a CMT. Pg.56,
chart
7 General Movement Rules: Formation Changes & Facing to Flank
For a Formation Change turn (including the equivalent of making a “90 degree” turn), this requires passing a CMT.
Note: Do this by keeping one front corner stationary and reform all the other bases into the same formation as before, but now facing to the previous flank. Can also move any or all bases to a new position in the group so that the Kiel is a legal formation (see also 2 and 3 above). Pg. 56,
Chart
Pg.63,
1st & 3rd bullets
Pg.64,
Diagram (bottom)
8 Impact Phase: Charging a Flank or Rear
Keils never count as being charged in flank.
Flank charges on a Keil count as a normal charge on the front (see also 14 below).
The Kiel does not auto-drop one Cohesion level (for charged in Flank or Rear).
The normal POAs are used as if the charge had contacted the front of the (Kiel) file. This if the 3rd rank base of a 4-rank deep pike BG is contacted the pike get their normal plus POA for 4 ranks deep pike.
Also, in the subsequent melee phase, the Kiel does not suffer a minus POA for “fighting enemy in two directions” (see also 17 below). Pg.77,
8th bullet
Pg.78,
5th & 6th bullet

9 Impact Phase: Charging the Flank of a Kiel
If any bases of a Keil not in a file with pike are hit in flank all the bases in that file is moved to the rear of the pike file and the enemy is moved into the flank of the pike file (if Heavy Weapon or Sword bases that are in a pike file are hit in flank, then move them to any other part of the BG formation by replacing them with pike bases that face the attackers). Pg.80
10 Impact Phase: Charging the Flank of a Kiel
Pike bases are turned to face the enemy, as if it were a flank charge, in up to 2 ranks. They then fight the same enemy that they would in a flank charge.
If they are the front two ranks in combat frontally, they don’t turn (however the unturned 2nd rank base facing to the front will count as fighting to the flank). Pg.80
Pg.77,
9th bullet
11 Impact Phase: Attempts to Charge Mounted or Elephants with Foot
The Kiel (as all Foot BGs) required to pass a CMT unless charging flank or rear Pg.82,
2nd section
12 Impact Phase: Attempts to Charge when Disrupted or Fragmented
Keils are Shock Troops (see 1 above) so can charge when Disrupted (without needing to pass a CMT), but not when Severely Disrupted or Fragmented. Pg.83
13 Manoeuvre Phase: Reforming
A Keil can’t reform at the start of its own (or opponents) manoeuvre phase if it counts as fighting in two or more directions (i.e. if in combat to both front and flank, even though the Kiel does not count as attacked in flank, see also 8, 9 & 10 above). Pg.94,
last bullet
14 Manoeuvre Phase: Conforming to Enemy in Close Combat
Enemy bases charging a Keil in the flank (although for combat purposes it does not count as a flank attack) the BG must pivot to conform with the front edge of the Kiel (sliding the minimum necessary to contact the front edge of at least one enemy base (or to an overlap position if this is not possible). This may look odd but is a game mechanism to clarify the Kiel is not fighting in two directions. Also, the Keil does not conform to the enemy BG (see also 10 above). Pg.95,
3rd & 7th bullets
15 Manoeuvre Phase: Feeding more Bases into an Existing Close Combat
The HW or Sw (e.g. Halberdiers) bases in the Keil can shift to feed in as an overlap as long as sufficient Pike remain in the file to maintain the current combat POAs (so cannot move out from the 4th rank where they have contributed to the “4 ranks of Pike POA”) and they’d need to stay a legal formation e.g. rectangle. The other restrictions still apply. Pg.96,
1st bullet
Pg97,
5th bullet
16 Manoeuvre Phase: Restricted Area
Keils ignore all enemy restricted areas and so are free to make any/all appropriate manoeuvres without pinning restrictions. Pg.100
2nd bullet
17 Melee Phase: Fighting Enemy in Two Directions
Keil don’t count fighting in two directions unless one is to the rear (so front and rear or front and flank (even though this normally doesn’t count as flank), or all 3 sides. Pg.113,
last part
18 The Combat Mechanism: Shooting POAs
Keils fired on by Artillery will hit on 5’s vs 2 ranks deep or on 4’s if any file is 3+ deep.
Keils fired on by Regimental Guns will hit on 4’s (in all circumstances no adjustment).
Keils fired on by other weapons depends on Armour class and not ranks; e.g. Keils fired on at Long range by musket, musket* or salvo hit on 5’s if Keil is armoured/ heavily armoured or hit on 4’s if Keil is unarmoured. Pg.122
chart
19 The Combat Mechanism: Impact POA’s
Enemy Salvo foot have ++ POA against Keils.
Enemy Impact Foot (and their pike) are equal (both get +POA) against Keils; against all other Foot; Keils have + POA.
Regimental guns are equal POA against Keils.
Spearmen in 2+ ranks (unless Fragmented or Severely Disordered) gain a + POA only against Keils in less than 3 ranks.
Foot with light spear gain a + POA only against Keils in less than 3 ranks.
Foot with HW gain a + POA only against Keils in less than 3 ranks.
Keils charging elephants are equal, elephants charging pike are POA down. Same for mounted with impact mounted, pistols, lances (= if we charge them, down if not) Pg.123,
chart
20 The Combat Mechanism: Melee POAs
Keils (unless Fragmented or Severely Disordered with:
Pike in 4 or more ranks (& legal formation of 2+ files) count + POA vs. any troops;
Versus pike and shot (++ POA vs unarmoured pike), shot, elephants, armoured mounted sword or pistol, armoured foot Sw, Spear, foot HW counts + POA;
Versus unarmoured mounted sword or pistol, unarmoured foot spear or sword, unarmoured 2 deep pike counts ++ POA
Note: Recent Amendments/Errata for FOG-R removes the PoA for Front Rank Better Armour if that previously applied for the Keil (e.g. Armoured HF vs Unarmoured MF does not gain + POA in Melee round). Pg.124,
chart
21 The Combat Mechanism: POAs Requiring Ranks
For Keils, the Heavy Weapon, Sword bases can count as Pike (for POA, unless Fragmented or Severely Disordered) as long as the front rank is actually pike and at least 2 ranks are also pike bases and all the bases in are facing in the same direction (see also 19 and 20 above). Pg. 124/125
22 Joint Action Phase: Outcome Moves in the JAP
In addition to the normal voluntary break-off requirements, a Kiel that retains its Shock Troop status i.e. are steady (see 1. Above) means that:
Any enemy Non-Shock Foot who are disrupted, or fragmented cannot beak-off from melee with the (steady) Keil.
Any enemy Shock Foot who are fragmented cannot beak-off from melee with the (steady) Keil. Pg.138,
6th bullet.
23 Battle Group Deterioration: Cohesion Test
Any enemy Foot testing for loosing impact phase to Impact Foot (i.e. the Keil) OR
Any enemy MF, Warriors or Dragoons testing for loosing close combat to HF or DF (i.e. the Keil) in Open Terrain = suffer a minus 1
Also, when the Keil is testing, there are different rules for Threatened Flank (see also 8 & 17 above and 25 below). Pg. 148,
Chart

24 Reference Section – Appendix 3: Glossary of Terms: Support
Keils count as (rear) supported (of themselves) unless they have an enemy (other than an enemy Commander, Light Troops or Camp) with 12 MUs and even partly behind a line extending from their rear edge. Pg.174,
chart
25 Reference Section – Appendix 3: Glossary of Terms: Threatened Flank
Keils count as threatened flank if within 12 MUs of the table side edge or 6 MUs of the table rear edge and even partly behind a line extending from their rear edge.
Keils are immune to Threatened Flank from Battle Troops unless there are enemy troops capable of making a legal charge move onto the rear of the Keil in next turn. Pg.175,
chart
26 Reference Section – Appendix 4: Deploying Battle Groups
A Kiel that is a Grand Battle Group and whose order of march is ‘straddling’ two deployment batches is fully deployed in the earlier batch, and just the remainder of following batch (that the GBG straddled) is then deployed as normal. Pg.187,
last bullet
27 Reference Section – Appendix 4: Deploying Battle Groups
Keils can’t deploy within 12 MUs of the table side edge. Pg.187

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Re: Oxford 1 Day Event - 8 March 2020

Post by Buzz0000 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:00 am

Email me (david_s_burrows@hotmail.com) if you would like a printable PDF of the Graham Briggs "Kiel Spiel"

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