Scenario critique

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

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Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:09 pm

I just reached "Overlord" in the 1943 West campaign and would like to second the OP (MickMannock).

As I said, I have not played it yet but this map is a compromise of D-Day and "Cobra".
I hope a "D-Day" and "Cobra" map get added at one point and maybe even replace this one.

While it really seems to make for an interesting fight it suffers from this "this is the day AFTER D-Day" syndrome as the coast is basically taken already. No Omaha Beach or other fights at the beach, this is indeed more the breakout of Normandy ("Cobra" was the codename and scenario name in Panzer General) than the invasion itself.

MarsRobert
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Re: Scenario critique

Post by MarsRobert » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:21 pm

MickMannock wrote:
Fritz wrote:
MickMannock wrote: Don't get me wrong, I don't say everything has to play out exactly like history (that would be boring) but the British taking Caen on turn 1 and the Americans doing a break out on turn 2 (basically unhindered) just blows my mind. There has to be more German aux ground units close to the coast.
Thats true.
Watch the Band of Brothers Series to see what hard fighting has been there.

I guess the few units are a programming trick. If the core units would start all at or near the beach, the invasion would fail in a few rounds. Since you could block the exit points and finish off the units before they can attack. :D
Uhm...and that is why I wrote there needs to be more German aux units close to the beaches. It's in the part you quoted.

The core units are fine where they are.
I agree about Overlord, and it is indeed a tough one. Most of the time the Panzer Corps scenarios seem reasonably accurate historically, notwithstanding the rather abstract nature of the game system. I think the Overlord scenario is one of the exceptions though. Still in all, they got it right with the massive Allied air power making life miserable for the Germans.

Also, yes, I thought 'Band of Brothers' was quite possibly the best miniseries ever, though I think producer/presenter Tom (Mr. WW2) Hanks has gotten rather pretentious in his old age. ;)

soldier
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Post by soldier » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:09 am

Does anyone remember the overlord scenario from Allied General. In that battle you really had to fight to get on the shore, link up your forces and establish your position before thinking about anything else. The next battle focused more on the breakout and drive inland. Too bad the map appeared upside down but it was very tough (especially in 2 player) and displayed the different nature of the operations. Unfortunately a few scenarios in Panzer Corps have either been left out or as in this case, mixed together. Still a great game though

Fritz
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Re: Scenario critique

Post by Fritz » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:19 am

MarsRobert wrote:Also, yes, I thought 'Band of Brothers' was quite possibly the best miniseries ever, though I think producer/presenter Tom (Mr. WW2) Hanks has gotten rather pretentious in his old age. ;)
Watch "The Pacific" series if you havent seen them. Real great! :D

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Post by BertHunter » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:27 pm

@TOPIC:
I think the problem with the Overlord-map is it's scale.
While it is none the less a good designed and quite challenging map, we all did expect defending the beaches of normandy and giving the allied landing force a hard time conquering it, while trying to repel the paratroopers which are landing behind the beaches to destroy german artillery and conquering other key-positions like cities, bridges...

A little less scale and more forts, strongpoints and fortifications as terrain-type near the 'beaches' would have helped to get a more fitting impression of what we had in mind when thinking of D-Day.


@Fritz:
liked Band of Brothers even more :-)

MarsRobert
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Re: Scenario critique

Post by MarsRobert » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:52 am

Fritz wrote:
MarsRobert wrote:Also, yes, I thought 'Band of Brothers' was quite possibly the best miniseries ever, though I think producer/presenter Tom (Mr. WW2) Hanks has gotten rather pretentious in his old age. ;)
Watch "The Pacific" series if you havent seen them. Real great! :D
Yeah man, I saw it. Thought it was very good, if not quite as good as 'Band of Brothers'. I gave it four stars in Netflix. I thought the Pelieu airfield scene was stunning, although I didn't think the cast was as likeable as it was in BoB. Also, maybe a bit too much womanizing in the Pacific series. :wink:

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:50 pm

Overlord criticism!

That the AI was - even in PG - notoriously weak on the attack is well known.

But I noticed the following not only scenario specific blunders in Overlord:

1.) 2 Tanks and 1 Infantry is all that will EVER attack Paris
2.) All attacks go south from Calais, down the map. While every rear objective is left virtually unguarded.
3.) Infantry moves close to cities in trucks, no matter if there is AT, tanks or infantry. Suicide.
4.) Infantry surrounds the city but doesn't attack despite the defending Infantry being low on ammo (2/6) and not really that strong.

At this point my tanks make short work of all enemy tanks in the field, the Infantry blocks other Infantry the path and the bombers fail to score hits against Tigers and Tiger IIs.

My only major problem is Tigers running out of fuel or ammo.


Doh... this scenarios doesn't feel like Overlord and it is a bit showcasing flaws of the AI. OK, I only played at Colonel and there is supposedly better AI but this shouldn't happen.

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