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People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:47 am
by Molve
Since calls for making Panzer Corps sequels like these are fairly common, I started this thread in order to discuss them and their flaws - in order for the Slitherine dev team to become aware with these flaws as early as possible to not repeat them in any possible remakes.

People's General: overall a very decent member of the "... General" series. However, there's one major issue that I believe the SSI devs lost track of back then:

The PG series was about building up an elite force that you could take from scenario to scenario, almost like leveling up a rpg hero. The realism demands in a post-WWII war runs directly counter to this; when an enemy can single out any one of your units for destruction and there is nothing you can do to prevent that. The technology simply makes attacking values too high, and the capabilities for focusing that fire are too strong. Not too strong for that period of history perhaps, but certainly for the kind of game the PG series started out as.

Please do not (re-)create a People's General game without either:
1) making sure the core play experience - building your elite corps - is supported by the units you field. In other words, make sure that experience and/or the best equipment allows you to escape "random destruction" which otherwise would be suggested by the capabilities of the enemy.
- or -
2) changing the title, so the game isn't associated with the Panzer Corps series, and therefore does not create expectations of the PG style of gameplay.

Space General:Put simply, do not attempt to (re)create this game. Not without exhibiting a thorough understanding of why it was a deeply flawed game, meaning that any remake really is a new take that only keeps the "panzer general in space" idea but not any of the deeply flawed unit statistics.

In short: the core rock-paper-scissors interaction of WWII-era units (panzers, infantry, artillery with airfore as a "joker") was completely absent from Space General. It was much more akin to the naval combat of Panzer General/Corps: which is to say, "more and bigger" is the only strategy you need. This makes for a very dull and boring game.

Please don't just make a "Space Corps" game that doesn't completely overhaul the unit composition; essentially creating a completely different "panzer general in space" game that only shares the name with the Space General game. Please also consider being much more ambitious when it comes to "space terrain", saying "space needs to be boringly empty for realism issues" is a completely unacceptable argument in this case.

Thank you

Re: People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:18 pm
by Molve
Just wanted to say I found this old thread today, on the same day I heard there's about to be a Fantasy General II :)

Re: People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:40 pm
by captainjack
Panzer Corps has shown that revised versions of older games can be successful, especially if they can capture the flavour of the originals.

Fantasy General wouldn't play on my last few PCs but a few weeks ago I stumbled across a version of Fantasy General that works on my current PC. I was just starting to enjoy it when Fantasy General 2 was announced. It will be interesting to see how well it captures the feel of the original.

Re: People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:56 am
by braccada
I played all three of them, but do not remember them very well. I personally need a good story to get involved in a game and that is another thing that has to be kept in mind when planting PG or PC into a fantasy (or space) setting. WW2 automatically provides a rich background story even for single iconic units. In a new setting the game designers have to create that and that is no easy task. I still remember battles from PG, but absolutely no picture in my had for the other games. Age of Wonders on the other hand I still remember, because the story was good enough to get me involved.

Re: People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 11:15 pm
by GiveWarAchance
braccada, did you play Age of Wonders III?

I remember People's General there were random locations used in each battle and there was even Stalingrad. There were a lot of early Warsaw Pact units and helicopters that attacked viciously in the beginning so I always hunkered down and awaited the storm every time. For the player, air units had to be rented and used temporarily for a few turns instead of having them in your core.

Re: People's General, Space General etc

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:22 am
by braccada
GiveWarAchance wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:15 pm
braccada, did you play Age of Wonders III?
I played a lot of Age of Wonders :) I have always liked the series and currently I still have to play the last DLC for Age of Wonders 3. So I hope the new Fantasy General will be good!