Balance changes in v1.04

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IainMcNeil
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Balance changes in v1.04

Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:03 am

Hi guys

Here is a preview of the balance changes in v1.04 which is coming very soon. Kerensky has written up details of all the balance changes we've made for this patch. There are many many changes which are designed to hone the game balance and especially to make the late war combats as engaging as the early ones. This is based on extensive feedback from thousands of players. Thanks to everyone who gave us their feedback.

General changes
• Normalize Air Defense values for heavy armor of all nations to increase effectiveness of tactical bombers in Mid and Late War.
• Promote additional use of units that traditionally do not see use through stat and price balancing.
• All aircraft for all nations have received +6 Ground Defense to reduce damage taken from units such as Infantry with [1] attack value.
• All air defense units for all nations have received +7 Air Attack to compensate for the above change and improve air defense unit performance.
• All 1943 Infantry Variants for all nations have received +1 initiative to increase potency in close terrain battles.
• All anti-tank units of all nations have had a slight rule change. Instead of a -3 modifier on the offensive, this has been changed to a +3 modifier on the defensive. The net result is that Anti-tank units should perform better in terrain with initiative caps when they are on the defensive. To adjust for this change, all anti-tank units of all nations have had their initiative reduced by three.
• Soviet Aircraft have been raised to a level historically appropriate but one that is also suitable for effectively engaging the Luftwaffe.
• Infantry now retain experience bonus in close terrain.
• Increased ground defense of all Mid and Late war anti-tank units. Mid War towed ATG units increased to 7 Ground Defense, Late War towed ATG units increased to 8 Ground Defense.
• All Stukas have had a slight price increase.
• First series of Captured Units has been added to the German Unit Roster: Char B, Somua S35, Panhard Recon Car, Matilda II, Polish 105mm Artillery.
• Medium Tanks for all nations have had a price reduction in addition to their stat changes. Heavy Tanks and Heavy Anti-tank units have had their prices increased. Units affected:
Panzer IV F/2, Panzer IV G, Panzer IV H, Panzer IV J, Panzer III J/1, Panzer III L, Panzer III M, Tiger I, Tiger II, T-34/43, T-34-85, KV-1A, KV-1B, KV-1C, KV-2, Soviet M4 Sherman, M4 Sherman, M4A1, M4A3, M4A3E2, M4A3E2(76), M4A3(76)W, M4A1(76)W, Crusader Mk.III, Churchill Mk.II, Churchill Mk.IV, Churchill Mk.VI, Churchill Mk.VII, Cromwell Mk.IV, Cromwell Mk.VII, Challenger (A30), Sherman Firefly, Sherman Mk.I, Jagdtiger, Jagdpanther, Elephant, Nashorn, IS-2, SU-100, ISU-122, M26, M36, Achilles, Archer & Comet.


German Unit Stat Changes

Tanks

• Panther D release date changed to May 1943
• Panther D Air Defense to 15
• Panther A Air Defense to 15
• Panther G Air Defense to 16
• SE King Tiger hard attack to 25
• SE Panther D hard attack to 20
• Tiger I Air Defense to 17
• Tiger II CLOSE DEFENSE to 5 Air Defense to 18
• Maus AIR DEFENSE to 20 CLOSE DEFENSE to 6
• Panzer IIIN CLOSE DEFENSE to 4 SOFT ATTACK to 9 Ammo to 7 HARD ATTACK to 9
• Panzer IVH GROUND DEFENSE to 16 HARD ATTACK to 14
• Panzer IVJ GROUND DEFENSE to 17 HARD ATTACK to 15
• Panzer IIIL SOFT ATTACK to 5
• Panzer IIIM GROUND DEFENSE to 15 SOFT ATTACK to 5

SE unit changes
• +1 ammo for all SE tanks and infantry
• SE Panzer IIIN will now have 8 ammo +1 over the base model, which has been increased to 7.
• Add expiration date 1/1/43 to the following SE units: SE Infantry, SE Grenadier, SE Mountain Infantry, SE IIIF, SE IIIG, SE IIIH, SE IIIJ, SE IVD, SE IVE, SE IVF,

Recon
• 233 8Rad GROUND DEFENSE to 8
• 234/1 8D GROUND DEFENSE to 12
• 234/8RAD GROUND DEFENSE to 10
• Panzer II Luchs GROUND DEFENSE to 10 SOFT ATTACK to 6 HARD ATTACK to 5

Anti-tank
• 88 FlaK 36, ground defense to 5
• Jagdtiger AIR DEFENSE to 18 Ammo to 5
• Jagpanther AIR DEFENSE to 16
• Elephant AIR DEFENSE to 18
• Nashorn initiative to 10
• Marder IIA release date Feb 1942 GROUND DEFENSE to 10 ammo to 7
• Marder IID release date March 1942 ammo to 5
• Marder IIIH release date July 1942 GROUND DEFENSE to 13 SOFT ATTACK to 3 ammo to 7
• Marder IIIM release date March 1943 GROUND DEFENSE to 11 SOFT ATTACK to 2 ammo to 7 HARD ATTACK to 15
• StuG IIIF release date March 1942 ammo to 7, SOFT ATTACK to 3
• StuG IIIF/8 release date July 1942 GROUND DEFENSE to 15 ammo to 6 SOFT ATTACK to 3 HARD ATTACK to 15
• Stug IIIG release date January 1943 GROUND DEFENSE to 16 ammo to 7 HARD ATTACK to 16 initiative to 7
• StuG IV is now a base line anti-tank unit with an optional artillery switch mode.
• StuG IV in anti-tank mode GROUND DEFENSE to 15 HARD ATTACK to 15
• StuH42 in anti-tank mode GROUND DEFENSE to 15 ammo to 5 SOFT ATTACK to 10 HARD ATTACK to 5

Artillery
• StuG IIIB has improved stats
• StuG IV in artillery range to 2 HARD ATTACK to 10 GROUND DEFENSE to 15
• StuH42 in artillery range to 2 ammo to 5 GROUND DEFENSE to 15 SOFT ATTACK to 12 HARD ATTACK to 5
• Wespe Ammo to 6
• Hummel Ammo to 5

Fighter
• Me163 fuel to 30

Tactical bomber
• Stuka G Hard Attack reduced to 13
• Me410 HARD ATTACK to 8 Air attack to 16
• FW 190F SOFT ATTACK to 8 HARD ATTACK to 6


US Unit Stat Changes

Anti tank

• M36 Jackson AIR DEFENSE to 12 GROUND DEFENSE to 15

Recon
• M8 Greyhound GROUND DEFENSE to 10 AIR DEFENSE to 9 HARD ATTACK to 7

Tank
• M4A3E2 AIR DEFENSE to 12
• M4A3E2(76) AIR DEFENSE to 12
• M26 AIR DEFENSE to 16


British Unit Stat Changes

Recon

• Daimler AC GROUND DEFENSE to 10 AIR DEFENSE to 10
• Humber AC GROUND DEFENSE to 9 AIR DEFENSE to 8

Anti-tank
• Achillies AIR DEFENSE to 11

Tank
• Firefly AIR DEFENSE to 13
• Challenger AIR DEFENSE to 13
• Comet AIR DEFENSE to 16
• Churchill IV and VI AIR DEFENSE to 14
• Churchill VII AIR DEFENSE to 17


USSR Unit Stat Changes

Infantry

• Regulars SOFT ATTACK to 3
• Guards GROUND DEFENSE to 7 AIR DEFENSE to 16 cost 128
• Mountain SOFT ATTACK to 3
• Soviet Para SOFT ATTACK to 4

Tanks
• KV-2 SOFT ATTACK to 10, HARD ATTACK to 8 price to 472 GROUND DEFENSE to 18 AIR DEFENSE to 12, initiative 5
• T34/40 SOFT ATTACK to 6, HARD ATTACK to 8, fuel to 37, ammo to 6, AIR DEFENSE to 10 cost to 357 initiative to 6
• T34/41 SOFT ATTACK to 7, HARD ATTACK to 11, fuel to 60, GROUND DEFENSE to 12 cost to 386
• T34/43 HARD ATTACK to 12, initiative to 9, GROUND DEFENSE to 15 AIR DEFENSE to 13 Price to 491
• T34/85 initiative to 11, GROUND DEFENSE to 17 AIR DEFENSE to 15
• KV1a AIR DEFENSE to 12 GROUND DEFENSE to 16 SOFT ATTACK to 6 HARD ATTACK to 8 initiative to 6
• KV1b AIR DEFENSE to13 GROUND DEFENSE to 18 CLOSE DEFENSE to 3 SOFT ATTACK to 7 HARD ATTACK to 11
• KV2c AIR DEFENSE to 14 GROUND DEFENSE to 20 CLOSE DEFENSE to 4 HARD ATTACK to 12 initiative to 9
• IS-2 AIR DEFENSE to 18 CLOSE DEFENSE to 5 SOFT ATTACK to 11
• KV-5 maintain nopurchase flag cost 725 ammo 4 SOFT ATTACK 10 HARD ATTACK 14 Air attack 0 Naval attack 1 Movement 3 spotting 1 Range 0 Initiative 7 GROUND DEFENSE 24 AIR DEFENSE 18 CLOSE DEFENSE 1
Target type hard Fuel 39

Anti-tank
• SU-152 SOFT ATTACK to 10 HARD ATTACK to 10
• SU-100 AIR DEFENSE to 15
• ISU-122 ATG mode AIR DEFENSE to 17
• ISU-152 ATG mode AIR DEFENSE to 16
• SU-152 ATG mode AIR DEFENSE to 14
• New stats for the SU-76 in anti tank mode: Increase initiative to 6 (up from 3) and Hard attack to 9 (up from 5)

Recon
• BA-64 GROUND DEFENSE to 9, AIR DEFENSE to 11

Artillery
• 76.2mm M1942 SOFT ATTACK to 8
• ISU-122 ARTY mode AIR DEFENSE to 17
• ISU-152 ARTY mode AIR DEFENSE to 16
• SU-152 ARTY mode AIR DEFENSE to 14

Fighters
• All Soviet fighters have had a price change to accommodate their improved stats.
• Yak 7 Air attack 13 initiative 8 AIR DEFENSE 16
• LA5 air attack 17 initiative 9 AIR DEFENSE 17
• Yak 3 air attack 19 initiative 11 AIR DEFENSE 17
• Yak 9D air attack 16, initiative 11 AIR DEFENSE 16
• LA-7 Air attack 21, initiative 10 AIR DEFENSE 20
• Yak 9U air attack 22, initiative 12 AIR DEFENSE 19

Tactical bombers
• IL-10 air attack to 11

Strategic Bombers
• IL-4 air attack to 9
• PE-8 air attack to 11


Other changes
• T34/41 availability date moved to January 1942
• T34/43 availability date moved to July 1942
• IS-2 got [1] AIR ATTACK
• T-34-85 got [1] AIR ATTACK
• Sherman Firefly got [1] AIR ATTACK
• Panther A got [1] AIR ATTACK (SE unit as well)
• Panther G removed [1] AIR ATTACK (SE unit as well)
• StuG IIIG got [1] AIR ATTACK
• StuG IV got [1] AIR ATTACK (both, AT and ATY variants)
• M26 got [1] AIR ATTACK
• M20 LAC got [1] AIR ATTACK

Ranta
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Post by Ranta » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:12 pm

Looks great :)

But for the future changes, please consider to add the old values, for comparing sake, as well :)

Edit: And in that context, concerning the modding scene, it could be helpfull do give the changed lines in the equipment file - so that these can be adapted more easily for custom files..

impar
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Post by impar » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:00 pm

Oh! Some big changes there...

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Post by JuiceRabbit » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:04 pm

I'm much too big a PC 'noob' to understand how all this affects the game, but any changes that improve balance can only make this great game even better!

Looking forward to the DLC too!

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:39 pm

I forgot one change in that giant list:

Panzer 38T no longer has a discount upgrade to Panzer III.

Shrike
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Post by Shrike » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:03 pm

Didn't see any update to USA, Soviet and other countries' tech trees to allow for upgrades in the same fashion as the German units. Hope this is still planned?

deducter
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Post by deducter » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:20 pm

All anti-tank units of all nations have had a slight rule change. Instead of a -3 modifier on the offensive, this has been changed to a +3 modifier on the defensive.
To clarify, this value refers to initiative, not the attack or defense values. The wording is not clear. This has very interesting implications for placing antitank units in forests.

The Stuka's "slight" price increase is significant, 250ish for a 87B and 350 for the 87G, so that is a 75% increase over the original 200 prestige. I really like these changes, because the old stukas were too cost effective.

The StuH42 is bugged, the range is only 1, not 2.

Edit: Also, it seems the initiative values for antitank units only apply for tank vs antitank combat, not for any other combat, like, antitank vs antitank combat. I like these rules, but I wish they were very clearly spelled out.
Last edited by deducter on Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:27 pm

Ranta wrote:Looks great :)

But for the future changes, please consider to add the old values, for comparing sake, as well :)

Edit: And in that context, concerning the modding scene, it could be helpfull do give the changed lines in the equipment file - so that these can be adapted more easily for custom files..
We tried to make this post as un-'wall of texty' as possible so we trimmed out the old stats, but in the future, it might not be unhelpful to have.

When you say changed lines, do you mean lines that used to be reserved but have now become used? Or do you mean any line that had any value changed?

If it's the former, then I can tell you all the new 'captured' units have been placed over reserved slots.
Captured Char B, S35, Panhard, Matilda II, and Polish 105 arty.

If it's the later, there are so many changes made (every single 1943 infantry, EVERY single aircraft, and 90% of all tanks and anti-tank units) that I recommend modders simply start over with the new 1.04 equipment file.
That is, grab all of their custom lines out of their current equipment files, and paste them one at a time into the 1.04 document.

*SPOILERS!!!!*







There are also some... Russian units that have their reserved slots filled.

airbornemongo101
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Post by airbornemongo101 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:52 pm

Kerensky wrote: There are also some... Russian units that have their reserved slots filled.

:shock: :shock: :D :D :D
....that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain.......and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.


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Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:26 pm

deducter wrote:
All anti-tank units of all nations have had a slight rule change. Instead of a -3 modifier on the offensive, this has been changed to a +3 modifier on the defensive.
To clarify, this value refers to initiative, not the attack or defense values. The wording is not clear. This has very interesting implications for placing antitank units in forests.

The Stuka's "slight" price increase is significant, 250ish for a 87B and 350 for the 87G, so that is a 75% increase over the original 200 prestige. I really like these changes, because the old stukas were too cost effective.

The StuH42 is bugged, the range is only 1, not 2.

Edit: Also, it seems the initiative values for antitank units only apply for tank vs antitank combat, not for any other combat, like, antitank vs antitank combat. I like these rules, but I wish they were very clearly spelled out.
Right it is initiative.

Right again on Stukas.

I'm fairly certain the StuH42 was changed at the last minute (didn't make patch notes!), and it is intentional to be 1.
StuG IIIB has range 1.
The 'upgrade' of the StuH42 has range 1.
The next 'upgrade' (possibly coming in the future) also has range 1.

These units are all special 'bunker buster artillery' units (1 range, high armor, fortkiller trait artillery units)

How's that for undocumented changes. :D

As for anti-tank vs tanks, recon, and other anti-tank, let me check back.

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Post by Ryben » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:52 pm

Wonderful! Proceding to download ASAP.

I was wondering if there are also any changes in the UI as well an icon for denoting which units have heroes attached, for example).

PD: What happened to 1.03 uprgrade? :p

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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:57 pm

Ryben wrote:Wonderful! Proceding to download ASAP.

I was wondering if there are also any changes in the UI as well an icon for denoting which units have heroes attached, for example).

PD: What happened to 1.03 uprgrade? :p
I don't think hero changes made it into this patch. They (stronger hero visualizations especially stats) are definitely planned, but there was a LOT to do and only so much of it could get done. (DLC campaigns, new campaign structures, massive balance changes, German version, we got a LOT done in 1.04) :D
Last edited by Kerensky on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

airbornemongo101
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Post by airbornemongo101 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:05 pm

Kerensky wrote:
I don't think hero changes made it into this patch. They (stronger hero visualizations especially stats) are definitely planned, but there was a LOT to do and only so much of it could get done. (DLC campaigns, new campaign structures, massive balance changes, German version, we got a LOT done in 1.04) :D

Yes ,,,you guys did. :shock:

Thank you for the hard work :D
....that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain.......and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.


Always remember, Never Forget:

Box 8087

5 - 5 - 5 - 5

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Post by Tordenskjold » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:19 pm

Is the new version compatible with the old one I mean, can I continue my present Campaign even if I upgrade to 1.04?

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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:23 pm

the_iron_duke wrote:Ok, thanks - I'll update. Is the patch backwards-compatible with the solo campaign? I'm on the second scenario on the main campaign. Need to re-start campaign with new patch or soldier on?
It should be fully compatible with allowing you to continue your current campaign.
As a matter of fact, if it's not, please let us know and we'll do our best to help fix the issue. :)

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Post by flakfernrohr » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:43 pm

You guys get a very big THANKYOU from me for all your dedication and hard work. The modifications and additions to this game make it just outstanding right now. With those in the pipeline and the ones fans have made to the ones they will make, it will be truly amazing. Thank you all so much.
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?

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Post by ffl310 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:49 pm

Terrific !
Thank you

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Post by soldier » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:26 am

Still waiting on the download but most of the changes look good on paper. Changes to tac bombers, tank air defense and close infantry boosts all sound very cool. AT changes look interesting too.
Big thanks for the efforts to try and improve an already great game.

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Post by jokerrr88 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:40 am

Some of the changes made where much needed. Stuka's being so cheap was a flaw IMO so glad to see you guys are addressing that and some of the tweaks to the ATG's where much needed sure hope you guys adressed or have on your to do list a few silly AI traits.

AI seems to drive there trucks on suicide drives right up to enemy cities alot, which in turn get blasted. I can understand doing it in a AFV but a regular truck with no weapon makes no sense.

AI seems to never repurchase any air units, so once you clear the skies of planes in a few turns you will never see any again, kinda defeats the point to highly invest in AA Guns IMO

AI does not understand the role of there Recon units, to the AI it thinks its a tank, instead of probing and capping undefended towns. Play (forget name of Scenario starts with B) and when you play as German the Russian AI will constantly place Recon units in front of Tigers and Panthers to get manhandled. Suicide!!!

Have yet seen AI do a Para Drop of anykind on me. Would be cool to see me get fooled by a well played Para Drop behind the lines.

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One thing I do not like, is if I do a Para Drop behind the line and cap a undefended town I can buy anything from the equipment list and place it there, now that one I do not agree with because the town would be cutoff of a supply line and would not have the luxury of those equipment pieces. Para Troppers should have to defend with what you brought until a direct link is established.

On that note would be nice on the strategic map to show green and red lines showing in supply/out of supply links. to towns and towns not in link have no spawn point for bought equipment.

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Love game though keep up the good work and 39' and 40' is going to be fun thanks.

flakfernrohr
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Post by flakfernrohr » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:57 am

I don't know how this could be addressed right off the top of my head, but I think it could be worked out suitably. That being the ability to camouflage units like AT and AA guns, setting up ambushes, etc. The degree of camouflage and the ability to spot it would depend on the experience of the hiding unit and the spotting unit. The camouflage option could be a command in the game when you want to set up something like that.
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?

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