1939-1940 DLC Polish Campaign Dissapointing.

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tonyUK
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1939-1940 DLC Polish Campaign Dissapointing.

Post by tonyUK » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:45 pm

Mainly because I think it is unrealitic. The Poles have far too many air and ground units, particularly armoured.
Cavalry seem as strong as tanks. When I got to Danzig I was on my way to capturing all objectives for my first decisive victory, then on the very last turn after I moved a unit out of Danzig I found on view battlefied that the Poles had units appear out of nowhere in Danzig that I had just left, so I did not get my DV.
On other scenario, forget which one, Poles launched a massive counter offensive and wiped out most of my core units. This never happened except on a smaller scale with cavalry historically.
Playing on colonel Level, this spoils the game for me. I do however like seeing the A1 are more mobile rather than just sitting around doing nothing. To combat this Prestige levels are on the low side.
I dont expect an easy ride, but either the Poles have too many units being spammed, or Germans not enough, or low prestige points.

El_Condoro
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Post by El_Condoro » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:59 pm

Welcome to the forums, tonyUK.

The tension between realism/history and playability is one of the hardest for game designers to resolve. The Germans may have rolled over the Poles in Sept '39 but it would be boring to do that in a game without some good resistance for challenge's sake. That said, many guys are and have reported DVs on the scenarios, some without losing any units. My point is, as has been said to me, there is more than one way to skin a cat - try variations on playing the scenarios and see what happens. Hope you enjoy the game and I'm sure others will agree and disagree with your opinion here, too. Cheers.

tonyUK
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Yes, perfectly true.

Post by tonyUK » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:54 pm

El_Condoro wrote:Welcome to the forums, tonyUK.

The tension between realism/history and playability is one of the hardest for game designers to resolve. The Germans may have rolled over the Poles in Sept '39 but it would be boring to do that in a game without some good resistance for challenge's sake. That said, many guys are and have reported DVs on the scenarios, some without losing any units. My point is, as has been said to me, there is more than one way to skin a cat - try variations on playing the scenarios and see what happens. Hope you enjoy the game and I'm sure others will agree and disagree with your opinion here, too. Cheers.
I suppose I am too used to playing games like Hearts of iron 3. I also wonder whether the recent patch has solved the problem of the gulf between 1943 and 1944, particularly on the East Front. If I ever get through the France 1940 DLC does this automatically take me to Greece/Russia 1941?

VPaulus
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Post by VPaulus » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:15 pm

DLC 41 Scenarios:

Belgrade
Metaxas Line
CreteAirborne
CreteNaval
Minsk41
Smolensk41
Zhitomir
Zhurivka
Zolotonosha
Ostrov
Novgorod
Leningrad41
Vyazma
Streets of Moscow
Demyansk Pocket

Ranta
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Post by Ranta » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:47 pm

no chance for linking up to africa at '41?

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Post by Kerensky » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:50 pm

Ranta wrote:no chance for linking up to africa at '41?
I would not entirely rule out this possibility, actually. I don't have any details I can share at this time though. All I have is speculation. :idea:
Part of the beauty of the linking system is that campaigns can link in non-linear fashion. DLC 1940 does not HAVE to link to DLC 1941, it can link to alternate 1941 campaigns, or even user made custom work with the right configuration.

Afrika may attach to the main campaign. It could link into the DLCs. It could stand all on its own. It could even do all three at once. :D

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Post by Kerensky » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:07 pm

@tonyUK

All feedback is welcome, even constructive criticisms such as yours. :)

Well our more focused and zoomed in scale does somewhat explain the abundance of Polish armor. There aren't 'more' Polish units, just the units you see are smaller formations. Companies or Battalions instead of whole divisions and regiments. Also, a somewhat heavy armored enemy force is going to be a near universal theme for the DLC scenarios. The game is "Panzer" Corps, after all. We definitely want to explore armored combat very much. Where it's appropriate, that is. Warsaw was a just a taste of urban combat better suited to infantry and artillery than tanks, and Stalingrad on the horizon should prove to be even more conducive to non-tank combat.

Part of the danger of a more active AI is... well they're more dangerous. More dangerous means more player casualties and losses. I hope that you continue to give the new DLC structure a chance, because although it is somewhat difficult, many of our players have found it to be a much more rewarding and enjoyable experience.

If you are looking for tips and advice on the DLC, I would recommend asking around on the forums. We have a lot of helpful people, and several help threads scattered about. :)

viewtopic.php?t=29134

And from there, I point you to this note especially:
5. Victory is *not* life.
If you find yourself struggling, don't be afraid to settle for a minor victory for a scenario or two while you slowly build your core to strength. Decisive victories and minor victories share a similar progression path, so getting minor victories isn't as damaging like it is in the main campaign (cant get to USA without decisive victories). Of course that doesn't mean Decisive Victories aren't worth going for. They reward more prestige, access to 'bonus' scenarios, and a more likely possibility of capturing enemy equipment! Just don't think of a Minor Victory as a loss.

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Post by kjeld111 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:02 am

Well, there is only one scenario, Piatek, where the polish counterattack is really, really THAT deadly, and it is meant to be a defensive scenario, as clearly identified in the objective. It simulates the earlier stages of the Battle of the Bzura, where the germans were historically severely pushed back. So it is very plausible as a hard scenario (you have several auxiliary defensive units, AT guns and artilleries to sacrifice however). If you settle for a Marginal Victory (by the way, MV in this game is more or less consistent with history, DV means you are doing better than what really happened, so it is accordingly difficult), you'll get the Wyszgorod scenario, more or less the second part of the battle when you close the Kutno pocket, which is much more relaxed and will allow you to get back some prestige if you are careful.

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Post by Kerensky » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:04 am

kjeld111 wrote:Well, there is only one scenario, Piatek, where the polish counterattack is really, really THAT deadly, and it is meant to be a defensive scenario, as clearly identified in the objective. It simulates the earlier stages of the Battle of the Bzura, where the germans were historically severely pushed back. So it is very plausible as a hard scenario (you have several auxiliary defensive units, AT guns and artilleries to sacrifice however). If you settle for a Marginal Victory (by the way, MV in this game is more or less consistent with history, DV means you are doing better than what really happened, so it is accordingly difficult), you'll get the Wyszgorod scenario, more or less the second part of the battle when you close the Kutno pocket, which is much more relaxed and will allow you to get back some prestige if you are careful.
QFT.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

impar
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Post by impar » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:31 pm

So far, havent finish it, it has not be disappointing.
It did remind me of an old game, Mech Commander. Small number of units being taken through a number of scenarios.

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Post by Vaughn » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:39 pm

I'm really enjoying the DLCs. I think they are well worth the money spent on them.

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Post by Kerensky » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:47 pm

impar wrote:So far, havent finish it, it has not be disappointing.
It did remind me of an old game, Mech Commander. Small number of units being taken through a number of scenarios.
Oh... my... god. I LUV MECHCOMMANDER. I'm even more fanatical about BattleTech then I am about Panzer Corps. *looks at user name* Yup, I really am.
It broke my heart with what they did with MC2 though. :(

VPaulus
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Post by VPaulus » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:13 pm

This was my all favourite BattleTech computer game:

Image

http://www.mobygames.com/game/battletec ... -inception
I just loved this game, and a remake would be very welcome.

impar
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Post by impar » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:25 pm

Kerensky wrote:Oh... my... god. I LUV MECHCOMMANDER. I'm even more fanatical about BattleTech then I am about Panzer Corps. *looks at user name* Yup, I really am.
It broke my heart with what they did with MC2 though. :(
Ah! That Kerensky! :wink:
VPaulus wrote:This was my all favourite BattleTech computer game:
"battletech-the-crescent-hawks-inception"
http://www.mobygames.com/game/battletec ... -inception
I just loved this game, and a remake would be very welcome.
I preferred the next one, The Crescent Hawks Revenge:
http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/977/B ... venge.html
Played that ad nauseam.

There are developments on the Battletech gaming universe. A F2P game:
http://mwomercs.com/
There has been so many copyright problems with the Unseen mechs that it is a small miracle the game is still being made.

VPaulus
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Post by VPaulus » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:33 pm

impar wrote:I preferred the next one, The Crescent Hawks Revenge:
http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/977/B ... venge.html
Played that ad nauseam.
Haven't played... :shock:
Oh boy, I think I've to install Amiga emulator.

impar wrote:There are developments on the Battletech gaming universe. A F2P game:
http://mwomercs.com/
There has been so many copyright problems with the Unseen mechs that it is a small miracle the game is still being made.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:43 pm

Maybe we should move this BattleTech chatter to this thread?
viewtopic.php?t=29325

Let's keep this thread on track, feedback on the Grand Campaigns is very important, even constructive criticisms, because they will strongly influence the future DLCs to come.
Again, the wonderful flexibility of the separate but linked campaign. The ability to create content and release it quickly for our players to enjoy, leave immediate feedback on the content, and use that feedback to guide future development on an immediate basis.

And let's face it, it makes for a better playing environment. If we released a 100 scenario campaign all at once... that's an overload. Some people will feel undoubtedly feel crushed or daunted by such a massive amount of content. So rather than all at once in a gigantic package, we break it up into small and manageable pieces. Each DLC has enough content to last for probably a week or more, depending how 'completionist' the player is. Between life's other responsibilities and other games, people will have more than enough time to complete each DLC, and then eventually have enough time available for new content packages as they become available. :D

Yes, I can't waste any opportunity to point just how awesome it is. ;)

tonyUK
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Piatek Scenario

Post by tonyUK » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:36 pm

I tried this again, but this time instead of placing infantry on river (objectives)bridges I placed them only in river cities, otherwise placing armour one hex behind the river bridges protected by artillery and let the AI take the objective, as opposed to being wiped out. This worked a treat and seemed to confuse the AI. I only lost 1 core unit, and needed 2 Stukas and two fighters to assist. Undoubtedly this is one of the most difficult scenarios and to survive for 20 turns, thankful for just a MV.

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Re: Piatek Scenario

Post by BriteLite » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:15 am

tonyUK wrote:I tried this again, but this time instead of placing infantry on river (objectives)bridges I placed them only in river cities, otherwise placing armour one hex behind the river bridges protected by artillery and let the AI take the objective, as opposed to being wiped out. This worked a treat and seemed to confuse the AI. I only lost 1 core unit, and needed 2 Stukas and two fighters to assist. Undoubtedly this is one of the most difficult scenarios and to survive for 20 turns, thankful for just a MV.
Tony your solution demonstrates you are using your experience to formulate solutions. This scenario is a difficult one. I played it 4 times before I got a MV. I am an experienced Panzer General and PGF player. Experience is the best teacher and IMHO you are following the right path. Good Luck.

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Post by Kerensky » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:04 am

I'm glad to hear you gave it another change and come out victorious! :)

Do you still feel disappointed by the DLC campaigns? If so, how so? We're always open to feedback that will help us even further improve future content.

Aloo
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My 39 DLC experience

Post by Aloo » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:16 am

Ive started the 39' DLC a few days ago. Decided for FM setting (played the vanilla campaign on the middle setting - corporal?) as I was looking for a challenge. Had a lot of fun till the end of Piątek scenario, winning all with DV on the last given turn, losing some units each time.
Finished Piątek the same way except had to use green replacements sometimes, which was new to me.
For the next mission had a bit over 100 prestige and 1 unit below the max allowed core.

Started reading the forum and the people stating that elite units don't make much sense. Sold the towed AT gun, replaced all inf and tanks with green reps, only using elite on some art and planes.

Kampinos was a transition mission - I used green replacements a lot, and finished with a DV one turn before the end. Had much more prestige at the end (around 500 range).
Modlin was next and used the same strategy - finished DV on last turn with about 600 prestige.
Warsaw south as way too easy - finished around 4-5 turns away from the end of time with DV. Prestige at the end around 1400.

Didn't play any more yet. So to sum up most of the time limits are perfect - love fighting till the last turn. But once you learn to use green replacements (the biggest change for me) you start to get large amounts of prestige, but also loose interest in your units. I didn't care much about loosing a pioneer inf in Warsaw, as he was expendable. I stopped naming units as there is no point in this.

Still spending the excess prestige on elite reps for planes and artillery, but Im not sure that is needed.

Im really liking the DLC, but have a strange feeling that the "cannon fodder" strategy which works best, is not something that should be used by the Germans, feels more like Russian methods.

Not sure if a slightly cheaper elite replacement wouldn't balance more nicely, with the little advantage that they give you on the battlefield.

PS Thanks for a great game :)

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