1.05 update,could you tell me all changes?

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Rudankort
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Post by Rudankort » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:03 pm

deducter wrote:About the random seed thing, my main concern is MP. There have been occasions where I lost Internet connection between downloading and uploading a MP game. In that case, I have to redownload the MP game and play my turn again. On the rare occasion that has happened, I have tried to play my moves the same.

There needs to be the "no undo" and some sort of stronger game-fidelity protection for MP.
Guys, just to clarify this. Indeed, with 1.05 the game reseeds the random generator upon each reload. However, this applies to single player mode only. So, in MP it should behave the same way as before.

I don't really think that we need a separate option for this, most players have no idea what "seed" is and how pseudorandom differs from random, so this would make them really confused. In fact, the reason why I decided to change this (apart from my desire to make rezaf happy ;) ) is that many people were confused that the dice rolls were preserved after reload. As I said, they have no idea of what "seed" is, they just assumed that dice rolls must be different all the time. So, instead of trying to explain this to everybody, I decided to make the game behaving more like people expect it to behave.

About the editor: the most up-to-date version is included with this patch, and it definitely should not encrypt scenarios any more. However, scenarios created with the editor originally shipped with 1.04 will still have the problem. I hoped that all people have already migrated to the replacement editor posted shortly after 1.04 release, but if this is not the case, just send your encrypted scenarios to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru), and I'll correct them for you. Sorry for the mess.

In 1.05 there is a new cheat code "chess" which makes all combats play exactly as they were predicted (unless rugged defense happens - that is still a random factor). This is by no means a solution to RNG problems some people complain about, but players who like to plan everything from beginning to end and have everything under control might want to try this mode.

VPaulus
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Post by VPaulus » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:20 pm

Great!

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Post by brettz123 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:06 pm

Rudankort wrote:
deducter wrote:About the random seed thing, my main concern is MP. There have been occasions where I lost Internet connection between downloading and uploading a MP game. In that case, I have to redownload the MP game and play my turn again. On the rare occasion that has happened, I have tried to play my moves the same.

There needs to be the "no undo" and some sort of stronger game-fidelity protection for MP.
Guys, just to clarify this. Indeed, with 1.05 the game reseeds the random generator upon each reload. However, this applies to single player mode only. So, in MP it should behave the same way as before.

I don't really think that we need a separate option for this, most players have no idea what "seed" is and how pseudorandom differs from random, so this would make them really confused. In fact, the reason why I decided to change this (apart from my desire to make rezaf happy ;) ) is that many people were confused that the dice rolls were preserved after reload. As I said, they have no idea of what "seed" is, they just assumed that dice rolls must be different all the time. So, instead of trying to explain this to everybody, I decided to make the game behaving more like people expect it to behave.

About the editor: the most up-to-date version is included with this patch, and it definitely should not encrypt scenarios any more. However, scenarios created with the editor originally shipped with 1.04 will still have the problem. I hoped that all people have already migrated to the replacement editor posted shortly after 1.04 release, but if this is not the case, just send your encrypted scenarios to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru), and I'll correct them for you. Sorry for the mess.

In 1.05 there is a new cheat code "chess" which makes all combats play exactly as they were predicted (unless rugged defense happens - that is still a random factor). This is by no means a solution to RNG problems some people complain about, but players who like to plan everything from beginning to end and have everything under control might want to try this mode.
I am so glad you changed this. I hated the idea that I felt if I went ot replay a scenario that I would know what was going to happen automatically. It also made me feel like the manner in which you moved and attacked with units could change the outcome of the game. It is better just to let those who want to reload reload. Because the old way was open to even more abuse. I tested this out and all you had to do if you got a really bad combat result was have some other unit conduct an attack first and then try your other attack. I really disliked knowing that was the case.

Anyway glad you fixed that.

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Post by bebro » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:18 pm

Rudankort wrote:About the editor: the most up-to-date version is included with this patch, and it definitely should not encrypt scenarios any more. However, scenarios created with the editor originally shipped with 1.04 will still have the problem. I hoped that all people have already migrated to the replacement editor posted shortly after 1.04 release, but if this is not the case, just send your encrypted scenarios to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru), and I'll correct them for you. Sorry for the mess.
Thank you for your answer. However, while the offer from you to decrypt scenarios is very much appreciated I'm still struggling to get this to work with newly created work after 1.05, and I'm not sure where the problem lies. If anybody could shed light on this I'd be very glad.

First, to make sure I am not the victim of a fundamental misunderstanding: I never owned 1.02, first got the German version showing v1.03, then updated via patch to 1.04. So I've never seen an unencrypted scn of PzC before. Am I correct that "unencrypted" means that I can load .pzscn files into notepad etc. and get something comparable to the scenario files of PGF to edit nations, prestige, units and other entries there directly without firing up the editor?

I've done now a complete new installation of my game, but left out v1.04. Instead I copied the updated scenario editor from the sticky in the scn design forum (not sure if this was still needed) into the game folder, then patched directly to v1.05. The game menu indicates v1.05 correctly, and the editor shows "changed 1st Dec 2011" so I think it should be the recent one.

Still, the .pzscn file I created right after this is unreadable in notepad. I can load it, but it doesn't show anything usable for direct editing - it was just a very simple map plus some units quickly edited together missing many other scenario params, but I thought this shouldn't play a role.

I can access the .pzloc files just fine, but that was possbile under 1.04. Is this how it is supposd to be or has anybody an idea what I did wrong?

I did not use any DLCs so far, if that is important.

Rudankort
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Post by Rudankort » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:33 pm

Unlike PGF, in Panzer Corps scenario files are saved in binary format, not in text format. Or, to be more precise, in PGF each scenario consisted of two separate files - text file for various scenario settings, and binary file for the map. This was done to allow people to edit at least some aspects of PGF scenarios (using Notepad), because FPGE was not available yet at that point.

PzC comes with a full-blown scenario editor, so there is no point in meddling with scenario files in Notepad. So, scenario files are stored in binary form. As for encryption, it is a different story. In 1.04 we added encryption of scenario files in order to have an additional protection layer for DLC content. But this change broke some user-created tools which could be used to modify the scenarios. So, to avoid this problem, in 1.05 encryption was removed again. This does not mean you can edit scenarios in Notepad, but scenarios are accessible again to be edited with tools created by the community.

bebro
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Post by bebro » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:38 pm

Rudankort wrote: PzC comes with a full-blown scenario editor, so there is no point in meddling with scenario files in Notepad. So, scenario files are stored in binary form. As for encryption, it is a different story. In 1.04 we added encryption of scenario files in order to have an additional protection layer for DLC content. But this change broke some user-created tools which could be used to modify the scenarios. So, to avoid this problem, in 1.05 encryption was removed again. This does not mean you can edit scenarios in Notepad, but scenarios are accessible again to be edited with tools created by the community.
Ahh, thanks for the clarification, so I just was on the wrong way.

Shrike
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Post by Shrike » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:42 pm

Heh, I checked and as it happens, there were standard Guards units but their name was modified into Red Guards. Nice touch, but standard units after all.

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Post by Kerensky » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:52 pm

Shrike wrote:Heh, I checked and as it happens, there were standard Guards units but their name was modified into Red Guards. Nice touch, but standard units after all.
Red Guards only show up in a few of the new MP scenarios.
The change to Russian Infantry is that they have received 1943 versions. So there is Regulars, Regulars 43, Guards, and Guards 43, and so on.
Also, the conscripts and regulars got a new graphic to help distinguish them visually from the Guards, and the SMG infantry got added with a new image and attack graphic.

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Post by huertgenwald » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Thanks Rudankort for the "reseeding" :!:

One more happy man in the world :D

fenglicao
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Post by fenglicao » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:12 am

In V1.05, when I tried to change some parameters, like the GreenReplacementsExp, ScnReplaceCost, ScnEReplaceCost, etc, in the "gamerules" file, somehow they don't take effect anymore, while some other parameters, like the experience bonus rules, still did.

I remember in earlier versions I was able to change those above parameters and the game would then play with those rules (I can't remember for sure).

But anyway, how do I change those rules now?

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Post by Rudankort » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:16 am

All these parameters still work, there were no changes in this respect in 1.05. Two points to keep in mind:
- Any changes in gamerules.pzdat affect only new games, not games saved with older version of the file.
- DLCs use their own settings for gamerules, so if you are playing DLCs you need to modify gamerules.pzdat in respective DLC folder.

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Post by fenglicao » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:27 am

Thanks for the quick reply. I found all parameters changed in the gamerules file will take effect when I start a new game except these 5 parameters: GreenReplacementsExp, ScnReplaceCost, ScnEReplaceCost, CamReplaceCost, CamEReplaceCost.

Am I doing something wrong here? Can someone confirm?

fenglicao
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Post by fenglicao » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:54 pm

Sorry, my bad. This is not new in V1.05. I reinstalled V1.00 and it's still the same. I can change the other parameters and they will take effect when I start a new game, except these 5 above mentioned (I haven't tried everything).

So are these 5 parameters hard-coded in the game and can't be changed? How do I change them? Please help.

I thought I did change them in one of the earlier versions. Maybe I thought I did but never checked specifically.

Does this have to do with I also have the 1.05 Beta and DLC Beta installed?

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Post by VPaulus » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:07 pm

fenglicao wrote:Sorry, my bad. This is not new in V1.05. I reinstalled V1.00 and it's still the same. I can change the other parameters and they will take effect when I start a new game, except these 5 above mentioned (I haven't tried everything).

So are these 5 parameters hard-coded in the game and can't be changed? How do I change them? Please help.

I thought I did change them in one of the earlier versions. Maybe I thought I did but never checked specifically.

Does this have to do with I also have the 1.05 Beta and DLC Beta installed?
It would probably be better, if you open a thread in the Scenario Design section.

Regin
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A case for preserved dice rolls

Post by Regin » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:53 pm

The arguments in favour of the change in 1.05 are not without merits and I perfectly understand why it was done; and, most likely, the majority of players prefers it that way.

I am not one of those. I belong to the type of player who likes to use every possible angle to make the optimal move in a given environment of rules, limitations and types of opponents.

When I play chess against a superior opponent (and what else is fun?) who, however, has some personality trait that can be triggered to weaken his game, I'll use it.

Artificially decreasing my chances by ignoring strategies beyond the moves of the figures just isn't fun.

And the preserved dice roll is crucial to have fun in a turn based strategy game that allows endless saves: it made it interesting to replay a turn, because it gave me the chance to see if I couldn't improve the overall outcome of the turn to its optimum without having any chance within the set rules to get the maximum.

It allowed me to combine sound ingame with "rule set"-strategy and I only - but dearly - missed a level of difficulty (less turns, a lot less prestige, harder to kill enemies, in other words: a combination of Guderian, Mannstein and Rommel) that made it absolutely necessary to find the best possible outcome in every turn to earn a decisive victory in the given environment at all.

With the random seed, I have to act as if the game was something it isn't: a continuously progressing simulation that only allows a restart of a scenario but not a replay of every single move; now, a combination of strategies is no fun any longer.

When I replay a turn in 1.05 to see if I couldn't do better, I feel like a cheater when I get a much better result against an enemy unit and like an idiot when I get a much worse one and simply accept it to have any challenge at all.

I think, the switch to a random seed has created a hybrid rule set that doesn't quite work, the combination of random seed and endless saves is very unfortunate for every player who loves to play the full array of strategies available.

To preserve difficulty within the game, either take away the ability to save turns completely or reduce it to, well, lets say three so that we don't lose our progress if we have to abandon a scenario in midgame but simply can't go back at will to change events.

To cut it short, I'd like to distill my point of view of gaming to a simple rule: Whenever a game forces me to play (a turn) worse than I could do to preserve some challenge, something is wrong with the set rules.

Challenge the players who love to play games by utilizing the given rules to their best advantage by making those rules harsher, not vice versa.

I'd very much prefer a return to the preserved dice roll + a much harder top difficulty level to feel fine when I use my brain and not feel rotten.

But if you want to stay with the new random seed, give us at least a difficulty level that does limit severly the number of saves allowed in a scenario.

Otherwise, only the players who love to play the game like a simulation will be satisfied.

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Post by Razz1 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:08 pm

I don't like the change. Too many cry babies on the forum.

The use of this function could be described as an exploit or cheat.

My feeling is; if you wanted a random seed there are enough cheat keys available to take advantage of the week AI.

The random seed just encourages players to avoid the real issue. The RANDOM GENERATOR is too harsh.

I shouldn't have to reload a game because I don't like the 100% reversals in combat, which happen way too often.

There's a good 15% chance your combat odds will be reversed, even with supporting Artillery.

Seen it way too often.

On a good note, I can now reload the game because of the random generator.

If the random generator wasn't broken, why so many complaints and petitions for the random seed?

Why was it changed?

Because the RNG is broken. PERIOD.


What ever the developer does, I have to respect that.

I believe the root cause (RNG) should have been fixed, not the symptom of the problem.


Perhaps they will stumble upon a solution in the future and fix the RNG and reverse the random seed.

There is only so much time to address issues, so I understand the change in 1.05, just wish they would have fixed the problem.

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Post by lordzimoa » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm

here is only so much time to address issues, so I understand the change in 1.05, just wish they would have fixed the problem.
There is no problem, so no need to fix it, we agree to disagree on this matter, that is all.

Regin
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Post by Regin » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:14 pm

There is no problem, so no need to fix it, we agree to disagree on this matter, that is all.
Ah, if only there hadn't been a "fix". :wink: I will return to the 1.04 version and reduce my prestige with the cheat code at the start of each scenario, so that I can replay a turn at will without being able to maximize the result but have fun optimizing it.

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Post by Uhu » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:25 pm

Is there a 'cheat' to play the game without this "everything changes after reloading" feature? I really don't want to have it. :(
I want the seeds back. :cry:

Or can it changed back manualy, modifiing some files?

fenglicao
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Post by fenglicao » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:36 pm

well now there is the cheat "chess" which removes all the randomness, which is good to try.

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