2D NATO symbols or icons?

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

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Do you prefer NATO (2D) symbols or the current style of icon in Panzer Corps?

Current icons
56
80%
NATO symbols
13
19%
Something else (specify below)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 70

Wargamer74
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Wargamer74 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:07 pm

That style of counters would work great but I'm still not sure if I really want to go through with it. Unfortunately other projects like home improvement repairs have been keeping me very busy but if I do I will pm you. Maybe during the Summer sometime. :)

What would be nice is to have a choice between either nato or sprites in the game menu, Gary Grisby's AWD has an option like this. It would probably be to much to ask but maybe this could be included in a future patch.

VPaulus
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by VPaulus » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:44 pm

Scott900091 wrote:That style of counters would work great but I'm still not sure if I really want to go through with it. Unfortunately other projects like home improvement repairs have been keeping me very busy but if I do I will pm you. Maybe during the Summer sometime. :)
Sure. :)

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Sun May 06, 2012 2:18 pm

I'm surprised so many people like giant, larger than a city, "godzilla" tanks sitting in the open field. :)
I quite like that style of unit for smaller-scale games like Battle Academy; just right there. For the larger scale of PC, I find the "sprite" images get lost in the terrain and lack the contrast of "counters". They are harder see and strategize with. I wonder if it's a generational thing; I grew up on punch-n-play, nato-symbol cardboard counter games in the 1970's, so there's just a visual comfort in them, for me.

-Mark R.

VPaulus
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by VPaulus » Sun May 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Remember Panzer Corps was directly inspired in Panzer General.
So we expect sprites and not counters. If it had counters, it didn't have the same appeal for me.
My pedigree is more about plastic figures and models than board wargames with counters.
I'm sure that a part of the success of Panzer General and now Panzer Corps was due to that. It appeal to people outside of the classic wargaming sphere.

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Sun May 06, 2012 3:08 pm

VPaulus wrote:Remember Panzer Corps was directly inspired in Panzer General.
So we expect sprites and not counters. If it had counters, it didn't have the same appeal for me.
My pedigree is more about plastic figures and models than board wargames with counters.
I'm sure that a part of the success of Panzer General and now Panzer Corps was due to that. It appeal to people outside of the classic wargaming sphere.
Absolutely understood. And, I recall the first time seeing cool aircraft silhouettes on cardboard counters many years ago - Wow! But, the initial appeal wore off fairly quickly, however, in favor of more utilitarian representations. Again, I think the "sprites" are way-cool if that's your thing. Just not my favorite representation for this scale/type of game.

VPaulus
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by VPaulus » Sun May 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Maybe you could continue, even in a slow pace, your work.
There's some people who would appreciate it.
With one or two small adjustments, like a drop shadow and centering in the hexagon, I think it would look great.
Would you disable the attack animations? Using maybe only one sound for movement, simulating the pieces moving in a board, perhaps?

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Sun May 06, 2012 4:15 pm

VPaulus wrote:Maybe you could continue, even in a slow pace, your work.
There's some people who would appreciate it.
With one or two small adjustments, like a drop shadow and centering in the hexagon, I think it would look great.
Would you disable the attack animations? Using maybe only one sound for movement, simulating the pieces moving in a board, perhaps?
Perhaps I'll continue to chip away, not sure. I only just figured out how to do the counter images this morning, so it'd be a leap to animations and sounds; I've no idea how the game software is structured for that yet. I did get a good chuckle from the animations on the counters this morning, the first time that happened :) I'd probably just leave the animations/sounds as is.

VPaulus
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by VPaulus » Sun May 06, 2012 4:28 pm

Please, if you have any doubts please ask.
We will help you.
And by the way, wouldn't you mind that I move your thread to the "Scenario Design" section, where are all the other mods? Maybe you could show us your progress.
What do you think?

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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Chris10 » Sun May 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Counters ? :shock:
No wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy !
I moaned the counters in Gary Grigsbys War in the East and stood my case in the Matrix Forums and even Joel Billings (ol Panzer General dev team) reckoned that I made some valuable points however War in the East was aiming at a different target customer group > board hex wargamer

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Sun May 06, 2012 10:22 pm

chris10 wrote:Counters ? :shock:
No wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy !
I moaned the counters in Gary Grigsbys War in the East and stood my case in the Matrix Forums and even Joel Billings (ol Panzer General dev team) reckoned that I made some valuable points however War in the East was aiming at a different target customer group > board hex wargamer
Then don't use 'um....
I say, hard to see images? No wayyyyyyyyyyyyy ! :wink:

Chris10
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Chris10 » Sun May 06, 2012 11:22 pm

mroyer wrote: Then don't use 'um....
I say, hard to see images? No wayyyyyyyyyyyyy ! :wink:
oh..yeah,of course ...we discussed this in the WitE beta forum and concluded that with one additional map zoom level the unit sprites would do just very good and it seemed even Joel was tempted at some point :D but it would require a lot of recoding in the exe and more map assets and so on...well,at least there is a very good mod from DMP converting the anachronistic Nato counters from WitE into something more easily to access...pretty good compromise
http://www.designmodproject.de/forum/do ... &df_id=137

Image

robman
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by robman » Mon May 07, 2012 11:18 pm

One of the differences to keep in mind here is that in PG/PzC the units are identified with specific models of specific machines (infantry aside, that is). This is of course inaccurate, even at the fairly hi-res scale of the DLCs, but learning about the different variants is part of the fun of the game. A more abstract unit identification system (and stacking) would less inaccurately reflect force composition, but the incentive to look up the difference between Panzer III variants J and L would be totally lost.

Razz1
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Razz1 » Sat May 12, 2012 7:15 pm

I'm sorry but the above picture is hard to see.
I like clarity. Another zoom level would be better.

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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by HBalck » Sat May 12, 2012 10:49 pm

I dont like it - better you play the HPS series not PC !

H.Balck

Chris10
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Chris10 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:59 pm

Razz1 wrote:I'm sorry but the above picture is hard to see.
I like clarity. Another zoom level would be better.
With one more zoom level WitE could use Unit Icons... :mrgreen:
And the pic is a low res screenshot converted to jpeg...Ingame it looks better

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Thu May 17, 2012 8:49 pm

robman wrote:One of the differences to keep in mind here is that in PG/PzC the units are identified with specific models of specific machines (infantry aside, that is). This is of course inaccurate, even at the fairly hi-res scale of the DLCs, but learning about the different variants is part of the fun of the game. A more abstract unit identification system (and stacking) would less inaccurately reflect force composition, but the incentive to look up the difference between Panzer III variants J and L would be totally lost.

Image

This sort of counter is both clear (much clearer than sprites to me) and handles the equipment variations.
It was done in a few minutes by me one morning to see what it would look like, so no, a full set is far from existing.

-Mark R.

Chris10
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by Chris10 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:26 pm

I imagine Panzer General being released back then with counters instead of uniticons...
Nobody would even remember that game anymore .... :lol:
I mean..sure thing..if some folks wanna play the abstract way...mod some counters and go but for the game they are really redundant

mroyer
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Re: 2D NATO symbols or icons?

Post by mroyer » Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm

chris10 wrote:I imagine Panzer General being released back then with counters instead of uniticons...
Nobody would even remember that game anymore .... :lol:
I mean..sure thing..if some folks wanna play the abstract way...mod some counters and go but for the game they are really redundant
Not sure exactly what you mean, but for me it's essential to have clear counters (or whatever else) that I can easily see and internalize. I find the graphic images of tanks and troops, as cool as they are, very difficult to use; they seem to blend in with the surrounding map terrain and I need to put extra focus into making sure I didn't miss any. Perhaps it's just old eyes :wink: - but regardless, for me and I'm sure others, its a very real issue.

-Mark R.

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