Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

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kverdon
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Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by kverdon »

Hi,

Warning *** Spoiler below***


Has anyone managed to get a decisive in Budapest '45? (or even a minor victory?) A decisive looks to be impossible. You have to save 5 units and by turn 3 I hardly have any units left in the city. There is absolutely nothing I can do to change that as even by going full out from the starting line its going to be at least turn 5 before I reach the city given the distance and opposition? If you loose Budapest '45 is it all over?

Kevin
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by Kerensky »

When I played this scenario, I used the following strategy.

First you have to get your air force over to Budapest ASAP, you'll need fighters to clear out enemy Soviet aircraft from bombing the Hungarians, and a few tactical or levels bombers to slow down the Soviet tanks in the area. The Hungarians really don't have anything to fight off the numerous T34-85s in the area (except for their one elite Jagdtiger unit, but it's only 1 unit with 5 ammo) and air support really helps them out in this regard.

In addition, I abandoned the west side of the city and jammed all the Hungarians on the east side of the Danube River. They get chewed up pretty badly, but this should buy you enough time to get your German core over there to give relief to the city. Deploying quicker moving Panthers and Jagdpanthers to reach Budapest faster is probably a good idea, heavier and slower units like Tiger IIs better to put into your southern attack force unless they have a +move hero that allows them to keep up.

Also, the Hungarians in the south really have a hard time, I actually recommend not advancing them north across the river, but just try to hold the river line they start at. The longer they survive down there, the more Soviet ground and air units they tie up.

Losing Budapest45 does not end the campaign though.

Image

Good luck, and happy hunting!
kverdon
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by kverdon »

Ok, I've tried everything. I've sent my entire AF over Budapest and eliminated the Soviet Air Forces I tried dropping para's to help the Budapest Garrison, I've tried moving everyone to one side or the other of the river. It does not matter. Even blasting everything out their way, there is no way I can get my forces from the West to Budapest before Turn 5, by which time the POS Budapest Garrison gets eliminated to under the required 5 units. Guess it's work out a minor victory and do better in the next one I hope. (this is at Field Marshall). The troops in the South seem doomed. The T34(43) units just chew up the meager armor units that try to defend south of the river.

Thanks Kerensky - I'll give it one more try and try to get everyone across the river to the east. I'll try switching out some units for faster units.

Kevin
kverdon
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by kverdon »

Well thanks to Kerensky's tips I was finally able to pull this off. I packed almost all the aux troops into the east side of Budapest, strategically placing Arty and Flak to do the most good. I moved the JadgTiger to the SE to help fight off the T-34's from that sector. I also dropped in two 14 strength Para units to bolster the defenses along with changing my JagdTiger and Elephant units over to JagdPanthers. This enabled me to keep the western fight to the bridges where I could fight from a better position of strength. The added speed of the JadgPanthers was a major key. I blew a hole upon through the Soviet lines and sent the JagdPanthers and my fasted KingTigers through the Gap. They arrived just in time to tie up and defeat the Soviet forces in Western Budapest. My Air Force was able to knock out the northern Soviet AF and that was also a huge help.

Alas, the valiant southern force was doomed. They held out for quite a while but finally were defeated when the advance elements of my southern relief force were about a turn out. Those advance elements were however able to bottle up the Soviet forces south of the river and then pick them off as they tried to cross North. It was close but all over by turn 22 and I got my decisive victory.

This is definitley a tough scenario to get a decisive in. I found it a tad harder than Moscow or Stalingrad due to critical time to get to the Hungarians. If you don't get to them by about turn 5 they start getting chewed up pretty bad.

thanks for the help,

Kevin
Kerensky
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by Kerensky »

Nicely done and now you get to enjoy Seelow Heights! :D
As a tip, don't try and fight the second wave of Soviet troops, hold the Seelow Heights Victory hexes only long enough to get your mission critical unit to appear, and then escort it back to your rear lines ASAP while you engage in a fighting withdraw.
kverdon
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by kverdon »

Thanks Kerensky. Seelow was not that hard. I threw a screen of armor to the south to avoid getting flanked on the right and then just drove the Ruskies back to the river. It was tempting to try to take out all the engineer unit and keep them to the east side but I heeded your warning and got the critical unit and got him back to sector C. Berlin however is another story! My basic strategy is an armored turtle in the center backed by arty and then expand outward about turn 10 when the first wave is depleted. 32 turns tells me that this I may have to turtle a bit longer :-)

Kevin
Bonners
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by Bonners »

Interesting and timely subject for me as have just started the Budapest scenario. I am using the play it on a really easy level and then go through and play it at a harder level. Even on the easier levels (and applicable for the '45 campaign in general) I am finding it quite a challenge.
Bonners
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by Bonners »

Now finished and so glad I read this thread first! Roughly followed Kerensky's plan which did the trick. Got a decisive victory with about two turns to spare, but bear in mind this is on Lieutenant difficulty and with an imported core. Even with that I managed to lose three of my units, including my last remaining '39 infantry. Felt a little bit like cheating playing it on this level, but hey, it was still loads of fun and very tense. Has to be one of my favourite scenarios so far. Had a quick look a Seelow Heights, gibbered a bit and decided to go and hide in my bunker.
7bua
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by 7bua »

I found this scenario is just a breeze. In the south, on the left, there's a small group of Hungarians sit near outside the combat zone, move them westward a bit to completely avoid combat, and stay there picnicking. The rest just left for dead, no need to take care of them, and if you want, place the Jagdtiger in a clear hex, then he will stay unharmed. Then weep out the entire map with your force , enemy force is weak and spreaded, then bring the Hungarians from the south into Budapest and voila, Decisive Victory :mrgreen: I dont know if this is intentional or not :D
brettz123
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by brettz123 »

7bua wrote:I found this scenario is just a breeze. In the south, on the left, there's a small group of Hungarians sit near outside the combat zone, move them westward a bit to completely avoid combat, and stay there picnicking. The rest just left for dead, no need to take care of them, and if you want, place the Jagdtiger in a clear hex, then he will stay unharmed. Then weep out the entire map with your force , enemy force is weak and spreaded, then bring the Hungarians from the south into Budapest and voila, Decisive Victory :mrgreen: I dont know if this is intentional or not :D
It isn't meant to work that way but it does because they just check to see if you have Hungarian units in budapest so it works.

I thought this scenario was really easy. I ended up only losing 1 unit from Budapest on Field Marshal. All I did was move everything to the eastern side of Budapest. Arty backs up the infantry holding the river line while the jagdtiger holds the southern approaches. Using 4 tactical bombers keep his tanks from doing any significant damage to you as you can make any tank unit combat ineffective in one strafing run and usually finish it off on the second one.

Overall a very easy scenario if you bring the right units.
johndoe2
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by johndoe2 »

kverdon wrote:Thanks Kerensky. Seelow was not that hard. I threw a screen of armor to the south to avoid getting flanked on the right and then just drove the Ruskies back to the river. It was tempting to try to take out all the engineer unit and keep them to the east side but I heeded your warning and got the critical unit and got him back to sector C. Berlin however is another story! My basic strategy is an armored turtle in the center backed by arty and then expand outward about turn 10 when the first wave is depleted. 32 turns tells me that this I may have to turtle a bit longer :-)

Kevin
It was ridiculously easy in fact. I saw the white flags knew I need to get there as fast as possible. So I did. So when the soviet engineers pop up in place I was waiting for them and wiped them out in two turns. Not a single soviet unit crossed the river. Should have been harder (much harder on FM anyway)...
brettz123
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by brettz123 »

johndoe2 wrote:
kverdon wrote:Thanks Kerensky. Seelow was not that hard. I threw a screen of armor to the south to avoid getting flanked on the right and then just drove the Ruskies back to the river. It was tempting to try to take out all the engineer unit and keep them to the east side but I heeded your warning and got the critical unit and got him back to sector C. Berlin however is another story! My basic strategy is an armored turtle in the center backed by arty and then expand outward about turn 10 when the first wave is depleted. 32 turns tells me that this I may have to turtle a bit longer :-)

Kevin
It was ridiculously easy in fact. I saw the white flags knew I need to get there as fast as possible. So I did. So when the soviet engineers pop up in place I was waiting for them and wiped them out in two turns. Not a single soviet unit crossed the river. Should have been harder (much harder on FM anyway)...
I agree it was really easy to block the engineers and not letting anyone cross the river. I think there should have been more armor (a lot more armor) already on our side to make this more challenging.
4kEY
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by 4kEY »

Kerensky wrote:Nicely done and now you get to enjoy Seelow Heights! :D
As a tip, don't try and fight the second wave of Soviet troops, hold the Seelow Heights Victory hexes only long enough to get your mission critical unit to appear, and then escort it back to your rear lines ASAP while you engage in a fighting withdraw.
I understand the scenario trigger opens the floodgates upon capturing the southern VH. My experience was slightly different than intended, I believe. The Communist Dogs sensed my weak southern flank and diverted a large number of their forces to punch a hole, but I said no. I eventually pushed each front to the river and by the time the floodgates opened I had already begun destroying their bridge engineers and aux artillery. By turn 17 I had crossed the river and destroyed the northern pocket and all but 11 units in the southern pocket.

I was an idiot and forgot to get Habermann to sector C and didn't have enought time once I finally started moving him. So, I added 2 turns to do it, and took this opportunity to eliminate the leftover Communists :mrgreen:

Fun scenario! Brett and johndoe both have valid points. It could have been more challenging it it had worked as intended. :wink:
ceandersen
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by ceandersen »

Kerensky wrote:When I played this scenario, I used the following strategy.

(...)

Good luck, and happy hunting!
Hi Kerensky,
this is a good scenario, but despite capturing all objectives and maintain more than 5 units Hungarian alive in battle until the end I did not win a decisive victory. The Hungarian units must be somewhere specific? What else is needed for a decisive victory?
The directives Scenario ask 5 units in Budapest, but no there is so great a city Budapest this map, that fit within 5 units. There is only a small Budapest (31.1), but only one hex.
What is my mistake?

[file: Budapest45.pzscn]
johndoe2
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by johndoe2 »

Hope you solved your problem few pic that might be of some help?
Turn 16 only two more flags to capture
Image Image

And turn 23 victory
Image
ceandersen
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by ceandersen »

johndoe2 wrote:Hope you solved your problem few pic that might be of some help?
Turn 16 only two more flags to capture
Now I can understand. But I have a problem. In your scenario, the city called Budapest, ok. For me it is called `Aba`. So I could not connect to the local mission. Sera that there is some error in my scenario or game?
ceandersen
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by ceandersen »

johndoe2 wrote:Hope you solved your problem few pic that might be of some help?
Another question, I could not noticing in its prestige. How do you get it? Always gotta be saving a measly pennies ...
johndoe2
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by johndoe2 »

Don't know are you using any mods or...?
As to the prestige my game started with Poland '39 so plenty of time to earn prestige.
ceandersen
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by ceandersen »

johndoe2 wrote:Don't know are you using any mods or...?
As to the prestige my game started with Poland '39 so plenty of time to earn prestige.
Congratulations! I never managed finish a round with more than 3000 in prestige.
Sando'm not any kind of 'mods' or similar. My game is completely original.
Shrike
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Re: Budapest '45 Any Tips looks impossible?

Post by Shrike »

There's most definitely a bug with this scenario: playing on FM, cleaned out the map about 4 turns before the time limit and stationed 5 aux units inside Budapest, which didn't end the scenario. As you can see on the mini map, there's nothing left to conquer. I keep on clicking end turn and ... get a MV :( No active mods btw.

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