SS Units

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GSlapshot
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SS Units

Post by GSlapshot » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:34 pm

I noticed in the Big Units folder there are graphics for SS units but I have never seen any in the game. Are they place holders or something in the future or are they availabe in the scernaio editor?

huertgenwald
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Re: SS Units

Post by huertgenwald » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:05 pm

ingame they are called "SE Units" and they are available as "random rewards"

GSlapshot
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Re: SS Units

Post by GSlapshot » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:38 pm

No. There are also SE units which are separate from the SS units and those are ones used in the game.

Carius
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Re: SS Units

Post by Carius » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:58 pm

SE=SS.... they are not separate in game

VPaulus
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Re: SS Units

Post by VPaulus » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:03 pm

Carius wrote:SE=SS.... they are not separate in game
Exactly. They were called SS units, but because of the German law, they were recalled as SE. However their filenames didn't changed. The new SE/SS additions have no more SS in their filename, but SE.

KdF
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Re: SS Units

Post by KdF » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:36 pm

Am I wrong in remembering that someone made a mod to replace the imagery and symbols to the...you know. Is that technically illegal?

...oh and Nazi should be changed to Nancy.

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Re: SS Units

Post by balone » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:40 pm

Lol, well put Kdf!

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Re: SS Units

Post by Zhivago » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:04 am

VPaulus wrote:
Carius wrote:SE=SS.... they are not separate in game
Exactly. They were called SS units, but because of the German law, they were recalled as SE. However their filenames didn't changed. The new SE/SS additions have no more SS in their filename, but SE.
Is there a way to restore the historical names to the game?

Wargamer74
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Re: SS Units

Post by Wargamer74 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:08 am

KdF wrote:Am I wrong in remembering that someone made a mod to replace the imagery and symbols to the...you know. Is that technically illegal?

...oh and Nazi should be changed to Nancy.
You're probably referring to the mod I did. From what I understand as long as It's not posted on a German site it should be fine, but if it starts to cause any controversy here I'll take it down. It's not my intention to offend anyone.

VPaulus
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Re: SS Units

Post by VPaulus » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:24 am

KdF wrote:Am I wrong in remembering that someone made a mod to replace the imagery and symbols to the...you know. Is that technically illegal?
It would be illegal for the modder to publish it in a German site hosted in Germany.
Zhivago wrote:Is there a way to restore the historical names to the game?
A modder can do it. But you've already the SS mod.
Scott900091 wrote: but if it starts to cause any controversy here I'll take it down. It's not my intention to offend anyone.
Everyone is free to download it. If they don't want, then just don't download it. I don't see a problem. I don't see any political statement in it.

This is explains what publishers must face when entering German market:
lordzimoa wrote:
FYI: These entries are not available if german language is selected. But if english language is selected in the section of fighters and bombers a symbol is shown which is prohibit by law in the Federal Republic of Germany: the swastika. So far this and other Nazi-symbols (think of the SE(!)-units) were avoided (e.g. the flag shows a cross instead of the swastika).
The release only contains the English version, final German, French and Russian localizations follow in the coming weeks.

We are well aware of the strict laws in Germany and have always edited out all Nazi or SS symbols, avoided using historical heroes, basically striped out all historical accuracy for the German side, we really took out everything... we did`t like it, but we followed all the rules. I have pages of law text here on my desk, what we can or can`t show...

Still German authorities have given us the 18+ age rating last year, a real farce, their motivation: our logo contains an eagle, yes, the German Imperial eagle that is the symbol for German states for hundred of years and is absolutely not unique for the Nazi period, on top it is currently still used in the official German flag!

In my personnel opinion, this was utter, utter rubbish, games where people can shoot off heads and brains explode have lower age ratings, we protested, but in the end just let them stuff it. It was pure political sabotage and censorship in my eyes.

There is one exception BTW you are allowed to use or show a swastika, namely when it is pure as an educational tool. Well to me the Library is just that.

Anyway for the German localization we will probably photoshop out the swastika`s on the historical educational Luftwaffe profile views.

But after last year German age rating behaviour, to be honest I couldn`t care less... they are not objective at all!

Wargamer74
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Re: SS Units

Post by Wargamer74 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:54 am

Still German authorities have given us the 18+ age rating last year, a real farce, their motivation: our logo contains an eagle, yes, the German Imperial eagle that is the symbol for German states for hundred of years and is absolutely not unique for the Nazi period, on top it is currently still used in the official German flag!
In my opinion all these historical war games that Slitherine/Matrix games publishes are basically educational as well as for entertainment. Maybe they should call them educational war games then maybe the German censorship law wouldn't apply?
Last edited by Wargamer74 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GSlapshot
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Re: SS Units

Post by GSlapshot » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:59 am

I didn't mean to start a long thread but if you look in the "Big Units" folder you will see the graphics for SE XXXXX units and another set of SS XXXXX units. Since SS units are not used or awarded I was curious what they were used for.

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Re: SS Units

Post by lordzimoa » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:48 am

Still German authorities have given us the 18+ age rating last year, a real farce, their motivation: our logo contains an eagle, yes, the German Imperial eagle that is the symbol for German states for hundred of years and is absolutely not unique for the Nazi period, on top it is currently still used in the official German flag!

In my personnel opinion, this was utter, utter rubbish, games where people can shoot off heads and brains explode have lower age ratings, we protested, but in the end just let them stuff it. It was pure political sabotage and censorship in my eyes.
Note also that we even deliberately had the German Imperial eagle looking to the right! To distinguish it even more... but no... we were censored gentlemen... 18 years age rating in Germany... we stripped out everything in compliance of the law... but the Panzer Corps logo and the fact that the Germans could win the war were reasons enough... It could corrupt the younger by glorifying the German Wehrmacht... I tell you it was hard enough to even get this game onto the German market.

So if you make a game killing Germans in WW2, they make it a lot easier I guess..., curious what the Allied expansions will get as Age Rating! :-)

Computer games are regarded as toys and therefore must comply to the most strict anti-nazi legislation in the world for the German and other European markets. It is frustrating for us as historical wargamers, but do understand that if we don`t, games are banned, taken off the market, and we risk being fined and prosecuted... so we let the modders take care of historical stuff, we just can`t.

adherbal
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Re: SS Units

Post by adherbal » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:10 am

At some point we made designs to use unique Waffen SS insignia & name for each SS/SE unit in the UI instead of the default german (censored) flag. But turned out most/all of that stuff is forbidden, so that went down the drain. Looked damn cool tho :)

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Re: SS Units

Post by ElIndio » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:55 am

In this day and age some 60+ years after events, there really should be a 'disclaimer' to use Nazi symbols when used with games or art based on historical facts or events / education et-al, as long as things are done tastefully. Otherwise the real history gets distorted and people start to forget about the darker side of the Third Reich and why we all went to war in the first place.

Nowadays it almost reaches the point where 1940's Germany is seen as fighting Communisim for the free world!!

The Politically Correct Brigade really do need their collective heads banged together at times :twisted:

I can see aspects of the German viewpoint with certain issues, e.g. I did a tour of Berlin several years ago where you were taken to the site of the 'Fuhrer Bunker', which nowadays is basically a residential block of flats with a kids playground built on top of it! :shock: There is not one marker or sign to depict what the site once was, as they are terrified of it becoming a Nazi / Far Right shrine if the location became more common knowledge etc.

This I can understand to an extent, but it does seem such a waste of history not to at least preserve it in some way. :?:

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Re: SS Units

Post by KdF » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:46 am

I feel bad that you have been restricted in such a way. Creating the most realistic experience as possible is what this game is all about. It is just ridiculous to think that just because a game has authentic historical symbols it will turn me into a Nancy.

Bonners
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Re: SS Units

Post by Bonners » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:58 am

I find this quite interesting as I am new to computer based simulations. The question I would ask is, I come from a board gaming background, what about all the old Avalon Hill, SPI, etc... games from earlier years? There was certainly no censorship of those games - were they just not sold in Germany?

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Re: SS Units

Post by Chris10 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:22 am

lordzimoa wrote: Note also that we even deliberately had the German Imperial eagle looking to the right! To distinguish it even more... but no... we were censored gentlemen...
LOL...you know what ?...The imperial eagel is looking to the left > Towards France (when underlaying a map)...while the French eagle was looking to the right (towards Germany)
Since 1935-1936 the produced equipment and other stuff changed the eagle looking to the right (towards Russia) and is therefore to be considered the "bad" one... :mrgreen:

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Re: SS Units

Post by lordzimoa » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:47 pm

Officially the design of the German Reichsadler was meant as when looking to the right is was being used as the national symbol, The Nazi`s starting to use the Parteisadler looking to the left as their Nazi party symbol. This rule however, was not always followed and mixes were produced, but this was the official convention.

The German Reichsadler was used since Medieval times facing to the right, just as the current German Bundessadler faces to the right, hence the reason we specifically have chosen the Panzer Corps Eagle facing to the right.

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Re: SS Units

Post by lordzimoa » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:59 pm

On top the Parteiadler holds a laurel and within that, as we all know, the forbidden swastika.

In Panzer Corps that is replaced by a radar wheel, that stands symbol for the tracks of a Panzer or Tank as in: Panzer Corps. So I don`t know what we could have done more...

Make it a Pigeon holding a pink ribbon... Pink My Little Pony Corps... Kerensky would love it!

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