Allied Corps way to easy?

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pewp3w
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Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by pewp3w » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:33 pm

Hey,

so this is going to be my first post and i am already complaining :/

When the original Panzer General games were published i was very young, so i did not play them. After i played all the advance wars and similar games, i recently came upon Panzer Corps.

I had great fun so far with it, i don't even realise how the hours slip away whilst playing ;)

But after playing the vanilla game and Panzer Corps i feel like the DLC Allied Corps is way to easy.

Granted i only play on the normal difficulty, but i don't like hardcore modes, because i also want to have fun while playing.

Still in the vanilla game i often struggled, i couldn't pull off DVs in Sea Lion 40, Moscow 41 and others, and often had to settle for marginal victories.
Same for Panzer Corps, i suffered at some maps, like the Suez Canal (crossing the actual canal is just a pain in the ass) and the later maps like Persia or India (damn jungle)

Now i bought Allied Corps and so far i just easily beat every map. The closest i ever came to a marginal Victory was on Sicily, when i captured the last city with 11(!) turns left. I am not even talking about the Victory requirements, the ones for a normal victory are really really easy.
Right now i am at Salerno and have over 20k prestige.

So is Allied Corps just really easy or have i improved a lot over the games (i just do the same over and over again, so that can't really be it...)

captainjack
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by captainjack » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:30 pm

It sounds to me like you are doing very well. I suspect that you could adjust the difficulty settings and still win

AC is a bit of a strange one to me. I find that the number of units and the mix of British units available can make it tough, but suddenly the US forces bring in some very powerful units like the mobile artillery with 5million ammunition which can be a bit unbalancing. Last time I played through with all British units as I wanted to better understand how to play them. I had to plan and think a bit harder, especially about how to get the best out of hero units, which was good. If I get bogged down in the Eastern DLCs, I will often go to AC to unwind and get a change of pace.

The prestige seems sufficient now, but early on I struggled to fill all available unit slots. This is probably because I have adapted my play to suit the unit stats better so I don't need so much in-game reinforcement and also because I'm a bit better at spotting opportunities to force surrenders and top up prestige from that.

I normally play at General setting with Reform Units and Dice Chess. However, I often use the all equipment cheat to get the first SE unit in the scenario they first become available. Otherwise there is not enough time for to acquire experience, so they end up being almost useless in combat.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Tarrak » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:34 pm

The first few missions of AC are considered tutorial missions so they are pretty easy but after that it actually pick ups in difficulty. Conquering all cities on Sicilly with 11 turns left sounds really extreme. Did you maybe play with the advanced options settings and changed something there without noticing it?

Cloud
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Cloud » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:14 am

I played Allied Corps right after the vanilla campaign with the same settings (colonel, ai 2, dice chess, reform units) and had the same experience. In my opinion Allied Corps is indeed *way* easier. Right now I'm playing Afrika Corps which seems to be at the level of the vanilla campaign.

timek28
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by timek28 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:41 am

I'm playing AC once again right now so I can comment:
Cloud wrote: Now i bought Allied Corps and so far i just easily beat every map. The closest i ever came to a marginal Victory was on Sicily, when i captured the last city with 11(!) turns left.
This extremely abnormal IMO. I rarely succeeded in getting a DV at Sicily, mainly due the fact that crowed narrow pass from Cataina to Messina has to be flanked from the west and that takes time. I also like to be methodical, and advance cautiously all the time.

I cannot understand how you managed to rush your units through all the mountainous defenses to Messina. And I am a veteran in PC, so it is not like I just tried the game for the first time.
Cloud wrote: I am not even talking about the Victory requirements, the ones for a normal victory are really really easy.
Right now i am at Salerno and have over 20k prestige.
This is more realistic. I also had around 28K prestige at Salerno (with MVs and all).
Cloud wrote: So is Allied Corps just really easy or have i improved a lot over the games (i just do the same over and over again, so that can't really be it...)
AC is easier no doubt about it. But primarily due to well simulated abundance of resources that allies had. Every victory (MV or DV) gets you around 5000 prestige (well at least those after introductory scenarios), and then it is very easy to cruise into battles. This is a sharp diference from PC where Germans had much less prestige for victories. Also what designers did here is they threw out unit spamming and spawns altogether so also that is why it is easier.

Still the late game scenarios require caution, especially Cobra, Battle of the Bulge and such as there are encounters with very experienced German panzers, so loosing prestige out there can happen very easily no matter how good you play.

pewp3w
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by pewp3w » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:06 am

I play without reform units, but with dice chess. I always have. Normal dice are just to annoying for me :)

It was actually 8 rounds and not 11 on Sicily, i thought you have 30 turns for it, but it was acutally only 27. Still.

I basically only use british units so far, because the american tanks are rather weak and all of the american units would start with no experience and my british troops are highly experienced already.

My core consists of:
1 HW Infantry
2 Pioneers
1 Commando
5 Churchill MK IV
2 Daimler AC
2 M18 Hellcat
2 M7 Priest
2 BL7.2 Inch
1 M12 155mm GMC
3 Hurricane MK IIC
2 P47-D
2 Spitfire MKIX SE
2 Mosquito MKVI S1
1 Lancaster MKIII
1 B-24 Liberator


When i saw that defence in front of messina, i thought it would be very hard to get through, but it actually wasn't so hard, because i supressed with 3 ships and 4 artillery, managed to take out the 88 and then could use my bombers to supress even more and destroy the artillery.

Can i see somewhere whether i changed something in advanced options although i am already playing? Still i am pretty sure i changed nothing there...


I think there is still unit spawning in Allied Corps? Given that new axis planes often appear later?

Razz1
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Razz1 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:51 pm

I would bump it up to General difficulty as the AI is a little better and your experience gain is a little slower.

timek28
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by timek28 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:23 pm

Also having all churchills as tanks dramatically eases up situation. I have 2 churchills, 2 fireflies and 1 crocodile and 3 M4A3(76) tanks and any other tank besides churchill has to advance very cautiously not to get in front of Panthers or Tigers.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Tarrak » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:01 pm

From my experience using the "diced chess" option feels like reducing the difficulty level by one, using "chess" more like reducing it by two levels. A lot of the loses and costs you are suffering in PC are coming from flukes in the RNG. Lowering them has a significant impact imho.

ThorHa
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by ThorHa » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:04 pm

I tend to disagree. The RNG has saved me as much losses as it inflicted.

Regards,
Thorsten

captainjack
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by captainjack » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:43 am

I'm not convinced dice chess is always easier - possibly when you are stronger, yes, but when you are weaker probably not. I suspect it forces me to play a little more conservatively, which makes for more success overall, even if a few less DVs, but I mostly play on dice chess as it reduces the amount of bad language directed at the evil computer and the malicious AI that has a personal and persistent grudge against my favourite core units.

I agree with ThorHa that on full random I had about as many good results as bad ones, although like most other people I remember the bad ones for much longer and forget about the good results.

pewp3w
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by pewp3w » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:06 am

Razz1 wrote:I would bump it up to General difficulty as the AI is a little better and your experience gain is a little slower.

Is the AI actually better? Or are you units simply stronger?

I guess when i start the GC i will turn up the difficulty by one, although the GC seems to be harder then the other Campaigns (at least after 1942).

I think the RNG should overall tend to give you the same results as when playing with Chess or Dice Chess, because you get bad ones, but also good ones and it should even out.
People tend to only remember the bad ones, thats pretty normal confirmation bias.

But it doesn't matter. As captainjack pointed out, dice chess makes me rage a lot less then normal dice.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Tarrak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:09 am

I don't mean reduced randomness makes the game easier because there are no, or at least less, bad rolls anymore. You are right in the long run you get as much good same as bad results. It makes the game easier because it increases the predictability. With careful planing you can reduce your losses to a very low level unless of course you get forced to haste by the timer. If everything goes by the numbers with enough artillery you can ensure that you almost always attack a fully suppressed unit or if attacked you can suppress the attackers so far that won't deal any significant damage. Now if you get here a better then expected roll you not really gaining anything. If you get a bad roll you suddenly suffer losses.

ThorHa
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by ThorHa » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:48 am

Fully supressed and artillery holds true until 42, no longer. After that the relative to protection low arty hard attack invalidates this strategy. But before, yes, I can see that the chess mode may reduce casualties for the careful and knowing player. BUT the careful and knowing player can easily live with the limited number of bad dice rolls anyway.

Regards,
Thorsten

Duke_De_Wissen
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Duke_De_Wissen » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:00 am

Hi Pewp3w,

than i have spec. Mission for you and play it without any Tank...

Now i playing the AK-Campaign with only Ital. Units. That´s really .......

Greetings Duke

pewp3w
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by pewp3w » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:48 am

Tarrak wrote:I don't mean reduced randomness makes the game easier because there are no, or at least less, bad rolls anymore. You are right in the long run you get as much good same as bad results. It makes the game easier because it increases the predictability. With careful planing you can reduce your losses to a very low level unless of course you get forced to haste by the timer. If everything goes by the numbers with enough artillery you can ensure that you almost always attack a fully suppressed unit or if attacked you can suppress the attackers so far that won't deal any significant damage. Now if you get here a better then expected roll you not really gaining anything. If you get a bad roll you suddenly suffer losses.

Indeed. But in the vanilla game, i was always under time pressure, because you did not have much time to take all the VPs for a DV. In AC you simply have sooo much time.

Tarrak
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Tarrak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:59 pm

pewp3w wrote:Indeed. But in the vanilla game, i was always under time pressure, because you did not have much time to take all the VPs for a DV. In AC you simply have sooo much time.
Yes as i tend to say in the vanilla campaign you feel mostly like fighting the clock, in the other campaigns you finally feel like fighting the enemy.

captainjack
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by captainjack » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:09 am

Duke,

I have tried Tank free (in terms of never using a tank unless I got it in that scenario). It was not too bad in 1939 and 1940 - I often play 1939 and 1940 with no or few tanks. Once I got to Russia I started feeling the need for more movement and thinking about the need to develop experience before 1943. It's a good way to learn how to develop AT units up to 3* in 1940 and 41 and then retire them. Being able to convert them to 3* Stugs and Elefants can make 43 a lot easier.

I think that all-Italian AK is known as Graziano mode (it might be Graziani - I can never remember which). I made it up to Dash to the Wire and then started feeling the need for tanks with real armour and started buying German again. Some of the captured tanks are quite a lot better than the Italian ones so it probably would work OK if you could hold out that little bit longer.

Duke_De_Wissen
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Duke_De_Wissen » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:11 am

Hi Jack,

absolutly right. I know from the feeling here, that this were a hard road to go. Let me tell you, that i have only now 4 German Units from the beginning in my Core. So this is the spec. Situation when you have the Prestige but you don´t buy it; we since Rommel in north Africa were have the mens and the Exp. perhaps OKW says "sorry we didn´t give you the material what you want, because east front in Russia is more important!".

For Pewp3w were this interesting to see at later off the Campaign how can fight without Tanks in Monte Cassino or Normandy, when he say at this moment were it to easy.

Regards Duke

Victor_K
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Re: Allied Corps way to easy?

Post by Victor_K » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:07 pm

ThorHa wrote:I tend to disagree. The RNG has saved me as much losses as it inflicted.

Regards,
Thorsten
Yeah, I am with ThorHa on this one. I find the RNG both wonderful and extremely frustrating. To keep my blood pressure under control I use the dice chess setting.

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