How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenario?

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Ricci
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How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenario?

Post by Ricci » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:40 pm

I haven't seen this answered yet. Which GC DLC East scenario allows the most core units to be deployed not counting SE units? I know that one scenario in 43 allowed about 45 units. What about the West campaign? Afrika corps? Allied corps?

Tarrak
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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Tarrak » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:53 pm

I do not remember the exact numbers. I don't think there is an easy and fast way to look it up short of opening ever scenario in the editor and checking the core size set there manually. I fail to see tho why such information would be useful in the first place? It's not like it really help in long term planing.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by MartyWard » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:12 pm

I think it is around 47 plus SE units in Berlin Redux.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Ricci wrote:I haven't seen this answered yet. Which GC DLC East scenario allows the most core units to be deployed not counting SE units? I know that one scenario in 43 allowed about 45 units. What about the West campaign? Afrika corps? Allied corps?
The most in GC East is Kiev43 which allows 40 units + SE.
MartyWard wrote:I think it is around 47 plus SE units in Berlin Redux.
No, its more like 10 + SE (or at least I've read that somewhere, but it makes sense seeing as Korsun has 33)

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boredatwork
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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by boredatwork » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:30 pm

45 in Berlin, 50 in Berlin Redux - not including SE units.

Most scenarios in 44/45 deploy significantly less.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:39 pm

boredatwork wrote:45 in Berlin, 50 in Berlin Redux - not including SE units.

Most scenarios in 44/45 deploy significantly less.
Then why do you get so much less beforehand?

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by boredatwork » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:02 am

I would assume the developers felt a) smaller scenarios are easier to design and test than larger ones and b) there was a sweet spot in scenario size that would appeal to the average casual gamer and the occasional maximum effort scenario like Prokhorovka was thrown in as a means of providing variety.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:24 am

boredatwork wrote:I would assume the developers felt a) smaller scenarios are easier to design and test than larger ones and b) there was a sweet spot in scenario size that would appeal to the average casual gamer and the occasional maximum effort scenario like Prokhorovka was thrown in as a means of providing variety.
or c) They're like me and don't really like the look of a scenario with 300 units representing a rather small engagement.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:25 pm

boredatwork wrote:I would assume the developers felt a) smaller scenarios are easier to design and test than larger ones and b) there was a sweet spot in scenario size that would appeal to the average casual gamer and the occasional maximum effort scenario like Prokhorovka was thrown in as a means of providing variety.
BTW, I actually was reffering to the 33 in Korsun (after 40 in Kiev43), not just other campaigns.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Resolute » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:03 pm

I made a list after my last playthrough, though it is not a complete list due to alternating campaign paths:

Core Units
'39
Poznan 14
Danzig Corridor 15
Lodz 15
Piatek 16
Kampinsoka Forest 16
Modlin 17
Warsaw South 17
Spoils of War 17
Oslo 17
Lillehammer 18
Narvik 18

'40
Eben-Emael 19
Albert Canal 20
The Hague 21
Sedan 22
Maubeuge 23
Arras 23
Calais 23
Dunkirk 23
Reims 24
Dijon 24
Maginot Line 25

'41
Belgrade 26
Metaxas Line 27
CreteAirborne 27
Minsk41 29
Smolensk41 29
Zhitomir 30
Zhurivka 30
Zolotonosha 30
Vyazma 31
Demyansk Pocket 31

'42
Vitebsk 32
Kharkov42 33
Simferopol 33
Sevasopol Siege 33
Voronzeh 34
Novoanninsky 34
Illovlya 35
Buzinovka Depor 35
Storming Stalingrad 36
Stalingrad Docks 36
Escape from Stalingrad 37
Tatsinskaya 37

'43 East
Kharkov43 38
Belgorod 38
Orel 38
Yakoleva 40
Oboyan 40
Prohorovka 45
Dnipropetrovsk 39
Kremenchug 39
Kiev43 40

'44 East
Korsun Pocket 33
Korsun Breakout 33
Jassy Kishinev 34
Poltava S 20
Mogilev S 35
Babruysk S 35
Minsk 44 S 36
Vilna S 36
Warsaw Uprising S 36
Return to Kishinev 37
Budapest 44 37

'45 East
Goldap 34
Insterburg 35
Pillau 35
Konigsburg 36
Osterode 37
Poznan 45 38
Breslau 39
Budapest 45 40
Seelow Heights 40
Berlin 45
Berlin Redux 50

Dragoon.
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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Dragoon. » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:40 am

'45 East

Epilog 10, but no worries. Slitherine and The Lordz to Victory! :)

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:54 am

Dragoon wrote:'45 East

Epilog 10, but no worries. Slitherine and The Lordz to Victory! :)
So that's where the 10 came from!

Thanks for the list

- BNC
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ThorHa
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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by ThorHa » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:56 pm

A sincere thanks for the values! I was just about to sell more of my 52 units core in 44 thinking the downward spiral in diminishing core units lasts.

And I really beleive the makers of PzC should improve on their documentation! It´s an impossible state that vital information like this has to be obtained by experienced gamers in the forum, nowhere else.

Regards,
Thorsten

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Tarrak » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:01 am

ThorHa wrote:A sincere thanks for the values! I was just about to sell more of my 52 units core in 44 thinking the downward spiral in diminishing core units lasts.

And I really beleive the makers of PzC should improve on their documentation! It´s an impossible state that vital information like this has to be obtained by experienced gamers in the forum, nowhere else.

Regards,
Thorsten
You call maximum core size a vital information? Sorry i personally disagree. It only matter if you want to absolute optimize everything down to the last possible bit. Due to the randomness given in the game like random SE units you can't do it anyway until you keep disbanding them unless you end with what you want which is a really gamey approach and know exactly upfront which special heroes and captured units you receive during the game. You call that vital information i call that spoilers of game content. The game is much more fun when playing the first time and actually NOT knowing everything.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by ThorHa » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:54 am

Yes Sir, I would call a maximum difference in necessary core size between 35 and 50 vital. Especially if combined with the soft cap rules introduced with 1.20. And of course I will call it vital to know, that after a long series of max. core sizes way below 40 in the last and most difficult scenarios it suddenly jumps again to 50. I pity the player that has to rely on 10 new green units then.

I am NOT talking of optimization here. Or of variances of plus/minus 5. I am talking about a massive jump just before the most difficult scenarios according some player records of the open beta.

Regards,
Thorsten

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Dragoon. » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:01 am

I must agree with what Tarrak said.
When I played the Grand Campaign for the first time that information was never an issue, and something I didn't care about until my subsequent playthroughs. Because of the grand campaigns exp cap, I had the foresight to recruit new units as soon my old units hit the exp cap. I though it would be much more difficult later in the war to level up fresh units, so I wanted to create a reserve of 2-3 star units in the early war years to fill free spots in my core and in cases of unexpected casualties. Back then there was no reform units options. I played from the beginning with the premiss I would loose complete units in Stalingrad and during Operation Bagration. Luckly it didn't came that way.
If I remember correctly I finished my first playthrough (excluding '45 East Berlin Redux because of the severe losses I had there) with over 120 units + SE units. Non of them were foreign captured units, as I sold them for prestige. :)
To my surprise when I just recently finished the Grand Campaign East again for the 3rd time, because the Steam achievements, I still ended up with exactly 100 units + 10 SE units. However this time I keep all captured units as trophies, and of course there are all the free hero units you get that were introduced by patch 1.14.

Edit: I just counted there are 33 foreign captured units (8 various T-34 models, 6 KV-1 models, 5 KV-85, 3 Shermans and other fuss), 1 prototype Maus + Jadtiger and 18 hero units in my core. I missed counting the the free AA units you get from that special mission back in '44.

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by ThorHa » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:40 am

:D
So you planned ahead according a forum received information not obtainable in the game documentation, right? Because it is mentioned nowhere that in the late dlc scenarios experience cap is lower than previously.

Thanks for proving my main point.

Regards,
Thorsten

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Re: How many core units can be deployed at max? Which Scenar

Post by Dragoon. » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:00 pm

What? I think you miss understood, maybe it's a language thing. Apology for that.
In the vanilla campaign there no exp cap in place and you exp gain progression is normal.
But the vanilla campaign is short compared to the "Grand" campaign, so this would not work with over 100 battles ahead, if you had already 5 star units after 10 battles. Because of this there is an exp cap in place.
When you start playing the '39 DLC the briefing tells you that there is an exp cap in place. I think it's at 225 exp and if you played the vanilla campaign you will also noticed the exp gain is much slower. Therefore it's impossible to have 5 star units in '39.
So my thinking was back then, instead to keep using units that already hit the exp cap I recruit new units. Even can't place them right now. Because logic says in '39 and '40 the enemy has low experienced units like me. If I recruit a fresh unit in '44 or even '45 then it will likely face 4 or even 5 star enemy units and my recruit will have a very hard time surviving.

We are just armchair generals but if we pretend to be one we have to think like one. Do not just think how to win the battle ahead, but how to win next one and the one after that and so on. To my surprise the biggest mistake made, even it's tactics 101, is not to have a reserve.
Never deploy everything you have, always keep a reserve. No matter which strategy game I play, I follow this rule to the core. May it Panzer General or Panzer Corps, Command & Conquer Red Alert, Pacific War, Europa Universals, Sid Meier's Gettysburg or whatever you call it, I do it. Because I never know what is coming, so I try to prepare for the unexpected. Maybe I underestimated a situation, got surprised, overlooked something or made any other mistake, then I will need a reserve to fix gap. Or opposite happened. There is an opening the enemy line, a flank exposed, a force separated from the rest. The perfect time to throw in the reserve to size the opportunity and deliver the death blow.

Edit: Had to do some rewriting because of the bad spelling and grammar.

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