Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

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JimmyC
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:06 am

Ok, i understand now. For some reason i thought that i lost prestige every turn that partisans were active, regardless of their location.

Do you have any tips on what to do with all the panzer II's that you get? I've upgraded a few of them to Flampanzers, but what should i do with the rest of them? They don't seem to have much use...

I'm still struggling a bit with the upgrade tree. I know its a big ask, but it would be great if you could summarize the most important upgrades and their timing (eg. Panzer III's can be upgraded to Panthers from turn XX).

Uhu
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by Uhu » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:02 am

Pz I
It is an ideal partisan hunter - because it is cheap, replacement cost is low. Sometimes I even give it elite replacement to maintain the 200 xp level.

Pz II's
1941: they are good for all fight tasks, except countering medium, heavy tanks. I try to conserve their strenght for the later part of the game. I go also easier in encounters, where casualties will be sustained, because I will not give them elite replacement any time. In the winter of 1941/42, they are good at the norht, countering the inf assault toward Smolensk. In the south, they are good fighting the inf and lighter tanks. If needed, it is also OK to sacrifice some of them for the higher good - the complete encirclement od the Kiev pocket.
I usually don't use them for partisan hunting, because the Pz 35, the Pz IIF recon and the Pz I is enough. But if one of it is already destroyed, a Pz II can replace it for this role. For the later game: if they are very weakened, I don't give them replacement, but sacrifice them in the winter of 1942 to gain time and let the other, more important units to survive. If they were for some magical reason still intact, than they can be used everywhere to counter inf's (for example Sevastopol, Caucasus, east of Leningrad).

Pz 35(t)
1941: very good against light Soviet armor and inf. I use it in the area south of Leningrad for attack and defense.
1942 early: I use it to destroy the inf's assault toward Smolensk.
1942-1945: I use it for partisan hunting/guarding duty at the railway line east of the Carpathian mountains.

Pz 38(t)C, E
The ones with heroes should be used carefully, while giving them possibility to gain as much xp, as possible. The Pz 38(t)E without hero can be used, as the Pz II's. The ones with heroes can be used after 1941 as inf destroyer and if there are enough prestige there, it can be upgraded for Pz IV, or later Pz V. (I usually just plan that, but never has the prestige for that, so they usually end the war, as they are. :) ).



JimmyC wrote:Ok, i understand now. For some reason i thought that i lost prestige every turn that partisans were active, regardless of their location.

Do you have any tips on what to do with all the panzer II's that you get? I've upgraded a few of them to Flampanzers, but what should i do with the rest of them? They don't seem to have much use...
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Uhu
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by Uhu » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:07 am

JimmyC wrote: I'm still struggling a bit with the upgrade tree. I know its a big ask, but it would be great if you could summarize the most important upgrades and their timing (eg. Panzer III's can be upgraded to Panthers from turn XX).
Sure, but it is a lot of work - which you can do it also. Use the PzC Edit tool, write out on a paper the availability dates for the importand units and also the date 15 days before it, to know, when the given units shall be placed in a city/airport to get the upgrade soon. I write also the prestige needed for the upgrade also down to calculate it good and preserve prestige for it. I made it that way.

UPDATE: maybe I can make a photo from the paper, what I made, but it costs also time copy it from it to the pc, etc. As I wrote, you can do it also, and while you do this, you will already start to memorise them, or be in the picture partly. :)
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JimmyC
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 am

Thanks for that. Its useful to see how you use them. I upgraded a lot of my II's to Flampanzer, but i think it was a mistake as i'm running out of prestige!

Regarding upgrade, don't worry about it. I downloaded the unit file to excel, but there are so many units and variations of units, that it gets really confusing. In the base game its ok, but in this mod it seems some units change price and stats depending on the time. Also there are many more units. So i think its best to just download the tool, rather than looking at excel.

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:10 am

Regarding upgrading units, I found the best time is in the winter when its snowing. As movement is restricted and there are combat penalties, its a great opportunity to restore and upgrade your units - especially the fliers. The same goes for rainy weather/mud.

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:07 pm

What should you do with the fleet in the Baltic? Due to mines, they can't be used to take out Lenningrad. So i figure either send them to help take out the Atlantic convoys or send them to the Mediterranean. Due to Gibraltar though, the Mediterranean seems kind of risky...

Any tips on what best to do (assuming you are not going for an early Sea Lion)?

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by MartyWard » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:35 pm

JimmyC wrote:What should you do with the fleet in the Baltic? Due to mines, they can't be used to take out Lenningrad. So i figure either send them to help take out the Atlantic convoys or send them to the Mediterranean. Due to Gibraltar though, the Mediterranean seems kind of risky...

Any tips on what best to do (assuming you are not going for an early Sea Lion)?
I think you can attack the mines if you want to try an use your fleet.

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:28 pm

I considered it, but i dont like that my destroyers would suffer damage - especially considering how precious prestige is. Also, as mines can attack units adjacent to them, you would have to destroy 2 minefields if you wanted to get closed enough to Leningrad to shoot, but without suffering any damage. I wish there was a way to clear minefields without suffering casualties in the process...

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by MartyWard » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:12 pm

JimmyC wrote:I considered it, but i dont like that my destroyers would suffer damage - especially considering how precious prestige is. Also, as mines can attack units adjacent to them, you would have to destroy 2 minefields if you wanted to get closed enough to Leningrad to shoot, but without suffering any damage. I wish there was a way to clear minefields without suffering casualties in the process...
I think you can use TAC air to do it.

JimmyC
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:24 am

Thanks for the heads up. I didnt realise that tactical air units can destroy minefields. That should be a good help!

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:15 am

A quick question regarding Crimea. This area seems strongly defended and will take time (and a lot of artillery) to capture. Is there any particular benefit in capturing it (for example giving me some large prestige increase or reducing the number of Russian units that will attack me in the future)? I am thinking to just leave it alone and instead concentrate my forces towards the Caucasus.

hugh2711
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:39 am

I have found that capturing crimea makes it easy to control the black sea and hence easy to sneak troops across the black sea and get at least a couple of oil hexes. this is worth alot of prestige and makes a big difference. I ususally sacrifice a few satellite nations non-upgradeable troops as cannon fodder to get crimea.

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:49 am

Nice one. That would take out a lot of trekking around the Black Sea to get to the oil fields. How do you deal with the Russian navy though as your own vessels in that area are really limited and there's no way to bring any more in? With the Luftwaffe?

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:28 pm

yes taking crimea gives you that airfield next to sevastopol then any navy is mincemeat for your strategic bombers of which there are alot in that mod (although you need most of them west to take out various invasions while still at sea (easier than on land). If you dont have that airfield next to sevastopol you dont have the range with the bombers and hence dont have control of the black sea

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:16 am

I'm a bit confused as to how best to use the Italian frogmen. Whenever i attack with them, they always seem to have better odds when in submarine mode. So although its cool, i wonder if there is any practical use to having the frogman mode, as it seems that its always worse when compared to attacking with them in their sub. Anyone know how to use these guys effectively?

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by McGuba » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:19 pm

There is not much point in attacking with frogmen on the surface. After all, they are divers. The surface mode is there purely for cosmetics and to better represent what they are. So just get close to the prey with the carrier submarine, and then release the frogmen (switch to submerged frogmen) for attack.
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:51 am

Thanks for the confirmation. I thought that including that mode was probably just fluff, but wasn't sure as maybe i was just using them wrong.

Its nice to have such special units though, so good work there. I also love some of the scripted events and strategic encirclements. Its really well done!

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by JimmyC » Mon May 18, 2015 7:36 am

I have some further tips regarding this mod based on my current playthrough. Most of it echo’s what Uhu said.

Tip 1 – play through the earlier campaigns and gain as much prestige as possible. Don’t reinforce the non-core forces, or if you feel you need to, then only give inexperienced reinforcements (definitely no elite reinforcements). For your core troops, try not to reinforce them at all during scenario. Instead, wait until the next scenario and elite reinforce them during deployment for a much cheaper price. If this means that they will have to sit out half the battle, then it could still be worth it (depending on the difficulty level you are playing). If they are only newly purchased, you could even just give them green reinforcements, so that they can continue in the battle and hopefully rack up more experience.

Tip 2 – There is a small window early in the Barbarossa scenario when you can purchase units. Without giving too much away, early on in the game, one of the minor Axis nations will withdraw their troops (I think its around late Autumn/Winter of ’41). At this time, your unit number will drop below the cap. Depending on how many other units you have lost (hopefully very few), this will allow you to buy a few units. You should consider carefully what to buy, as you won’t get such an option to buy units until around 2 years later (unless you are losing many units in which case you will probably be defeated anyway). My suggestion is tanks (Panzer IV), artillery (I like the 17cm for its range of 4) or fighters (Bf-109). I would even forgo repairing some units in order to have money to buy these units, or instead give green repairs so that you can afford to buy them.

Tip 3 – As Uhu says, knowing the timing of upgrades is very important. A general tip is that upgrading air units during rain reduces the amount of time they are out of the sky (as they can’t operate in rain anyway). Therefore you might want to wait until rain/snow/cloud before upgrading aircraft, unless the front is very quiet. I have made a brief summary of the key units’ upgrades in chronological order, based on main upgrades (I skip minor upgrades that I feel don’t matter that much):

Oct ’41 – Fw 190 A-2 (fighter): this is a new unit, but a vital one if you want to take on the British air power. None of your existing air is in the same upgrade tree as this fighter, but it may be worth upgrading some of your Bf 109’s to the Fw if you intend to challenge the British air.

Nov ’41 – JU 87D (tactical): Better soft attack and slightly better ground defense make this a worthwhile upgrade. Good timing too as you will have bad weather around this time.

Feb ’42 – Panzer IIIJ/1: the tank gets better hitting power and initiative, which is vital for them surviving against the Russian medium tanks (although the Russian medium tanks are still better imo).

Apr ’42 – Panzer IVF/2: Hard attack DOUBLES from the prior version. They are now a match for the Russian medium tanks.

Apr ’42 – He 177A (strat): This strategic bomber is vastly superior in every way to its older version. In fact, I would say it’s the best level bomber available during the war (for the Axis) and you should upgrade it immediately – don’t even bother waiting for bad weather).

June ’42 – Stug IIIF/8 (SPAT): Skip the Stug IIIF which is available in May. Stug IIIF/8 is better all round and cheaper. Once any of my AT units reach 2 stars I usually pull them back and wait until this unit is available for purchase. Sure its not in the same upgrade tree, but having a 2 star Stug IIIF/8 is really powerful and will make the Russian medium tanks think twice before attacking. I make extensive use of these guys (usually having 3 or 4), however it depends on your preference and available prestige.

July ’42 – Panzer IIIL: Virtually the pinnacle of the Panzer III series. This increases their ground defense by 2 and air defense by 1. Doesn’t sound like much, but it might be just enough to keep them alive until the Panther upgrade option becomes available.

Feb ’43 - Ju 188A (strat): Slightly worse soft attack for much better hard attack and becomes a lot more survivable due to increases in defensive stats. The junker is the best strategic bomber to use vs naval (both this model and the older one), so you should deploy these guys accordingly.

Apr ’43 – Panzer IVH: Increases to stats almost across the board, although the major one is the +3 to hard defense which makes these guys more survivable. Close defense doubles to 4, so if supported by artillery they can relatively safely sit in close terrain (which has the added benefit of protecting them from air attack).

Apr ’43 – JU 87G (tactical): Swaps high soft attack for high hard attack. You also lose fuel and have slightly worse defensive stats. However high hard attack is badly needed, therefore this is a worthy upgrade. Just be sure to ALWAYS support these guys with a fighter

Aug ’43 – Panther A: If you didn’t know, Panzer III’s upgrade to Panther’s! Skip the Panther D which is available in July - Its lousy on fuel and costs more. Panther A is where its at! This is the reason why you protect your Panzer III’s. I would even sacrifice a Panzer IV in ’43 if it meant keeping a Panzer III alive.

BF 109 – all the upgrades are worthwhile, so I haven’t bothered to mention them here. As I say above though, try and wait until a lull in fighting or bad weather to upgrade them, so as to maximize their time in the air.

Note that there are many more units than I have listed above, however I feel the ones I listed are the most important ones. Having said that, some of the minor axis nation unit upgrades are very important, but I don’t have the time to list them.

Just one last note regarding the Tiger tank, which is a mainstay of the grand campaign/vanilla game. In this mod, I frankly don’t like them much and would purchase a Panther over a Tiger anyday. Having said that, if you want to get one, then the Tiger I becomes available in Apr ‘43 and Tiger II in Jun ’44. Just make sure you save up for them, as these guys are EXPENSIVE!

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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by McGuba » Tue May 19, 2015 2:51 am

Thank you for listing these, I guess it can be quite helpful for new players of the mod. I think I will add some of the tips listed in this topic to the library of the mod in the next version. I hope none of the authors object this.

I would only like to make a few additions to make it clear why a certain unit listed here is seemingly different in the mod than in the vanilla game. In most cases it has to do something with a hopefully improved historical accuracy.

Oct ’41 – Fw 190 A-2 (fighter): this is a new unit, but a vital one if you want to take on the British air power. None of your existing air is in the same upgrade tree as this fighter, but it may be worth upgrading some of your Bf 109’s to the Fw if you intend to challenge the British air.
Indeed, by early/mid 1942 most squadrons of the JG 2 and JG 26, who were tasked with the defence of France, had converted to the Fw-190, and they were able to gain air superiority even when being outnumbered by the British fighters. The most notable battle was probably the Dieppe raid, during which the British had some 300 Spitfires (mostly Mark Vs) to cover the landings and the Germans had only 115 fighters (mostly Fw-190s) and still pilots of the Luftwaffe managed to shot down three times more enemy planes then their own losses, effectively gaining air superiority which helped to defeat the invaders.
Feb ’42 – Panzer IIIJ/1: the tank gets better hitting power and initiative, which is vital for them surviving against the Russian medium tanks (although the Russian medium tanks are still better imo).
The long barrel 50 mm gun installed on the Panzer IIIJ/1 was only marginally effective against the Soviet tanks. It could only penetrate the frontal armour of the T-34 at ranges under 500 m while the Soviet tanks could penetrate the Panzer III at longer ranges. Still, it was better than the earlier short barrel 50 mm gun, and the Panzer III was just too small to take the much better 75 mm long barrel gun.
Apr ’42 – Panzer IVF/2: Hard attack DOUBLES from the prior version. They are now a match for the Russian medium tanks.
On the other hand, the Panzer IV was large and strong enough the get the excellent long barrel L/43 75 mm gun, which had much better armour penetration than any other anti tank guns at that time with the same calibre. However, its armour remained the same (50 mm at best, unsloped), which created the interesting situation that the German medium tanks had better gun but the Soviet tanks had better protection.
June ’42 – Stug IIIF/8 (SPAT): Skip the Stug IIIF which is available in May. Stug IIIF/8 is better all round and cheaper. Once any of my AT units reach 2 stars I usually pull them back and wait until this unit is available for purchase. Sure its not in the same upgrade tree, but having a 2 star Stug IIIF/8 is really powerful and will make the Russian medium tanks think twice before attacking. I make extensive use of these guys (usually having 3 or 4), however it depends on your preference and available prestige.
I would say the Stug IIIG is even better and cheaper. It was the most produced German tank hunter with over 7,000 made, hence the cheap price to reflect mass production. However, it might also make sense to upgrade one or two AT guns to one of the Marders as those are cheaper, until the price of the Stug IIIG gets lower and more affordable.
Apr ’43 – Panzer IVH: Increases to stats almost across the board, although the major one is the +3 to hard defense which makes these guys more survivable. Close defense doubles to 4, so if supported by artillery they can relatively safely sit in close terrain (which has the added benefit of protecting them from air attack).
After the addition of the even better L/48 75 mm gun its armour was also strenghtened up to 80 mm (+ 3 ground defense) and a spaced armour (Schürtzen) was also added to its sides for protection against hand held anti-tank weapons (+2 close defense). It was the ultimate version of the Panzer IV and also the most produced version of the type with over 3,700 made. Some sources claim that the Germans should have concentrated on the production of this tank instead of wandering into the territory of weird experimental tanks such as the Maus. Then they would have produced even more than that and they could have a more numerous main medium tank similarily to the mass produced Sherman or the T-34.
Aug ’43 – Panther A: If you didn’t know, Panzer III’s upgrade to Panther’s! Skip the Panther D which is available in July - Its lousy on fuel and costs more. Panther A is where its at! This is the reason why you protect your Panzer III’s. I would even sacrifice a Panzer IV in ’43 if it meant keeping a Panzer III alive.
The reliability of the early Panthers was very low, most Panthers broke down at Kursk before they could contact the enemy. Hence the low fuel as there is no other way to simulate low reliability in the game. Although the early teething problems were mostly solved by spring 1944 (and that's why each new Panther version has more fuel than the previous one), the Panthers were never as reliable as the good old and venerable Panzer IVs.
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Re: Tipps for playing the Battlefield Europe mod

Post by jinxed75 » Tue May 19, 2015 12:28 pm

JimmyC wrote:
Feb ’42 – Panzer IIIJ/1: the tank gets better hitting power and initiative, which is vital for them surviving against the Russian medium tanks (although the Russian medium tanks are still better imo).

July ’42 – Panzer IIIL: Virtually the pinnacle of the Panzer III series. This increases their ground defense by 2 and air defense by 1. Doesn’t sound like much, but it might be just enough to keep them alive until the Panther upgrade option becomes available.
As McGuba said, still they are only effective against T34s when those are already weakened, and pretty useless against KV1 or better Hevy Tanks. However, the III L fares pretty well against western allies even in 43.
JimmyC wrote:Apr ’42 – Panzer IVF/2: Hard attack DOUBLES from the prior version. They are now a match for the Russian medium tanks.
You forgot to mention the IV G which becomes available shortly after, and offers significantly better defense. Upgrading all Pz4s to the G version should have absolute priority, imo.
JimmyC wrote:Apr ’42 – He 177A (strat): This strategic bomber is vastly superior in every way to its older version. In fact, I would say it’s the best level bomber available during the war (for the Axis) and you should upgrade it immediately – don’t even bother waiting for bad weather).
Costs a lot of money, though. Only for rich guys like Jimmy :wink:
JimmyC wrote:June ’42 – Stug IIIF/8 (SPAT): Skip the Stug IIIF which is available in May. Stug IIIF/8 is better all round and cheaper. Once any of my AT units reach 2 stars I usually pull them back and wait until this unit is available for purchase. Sure its not in the same upgrade tree, but having a 2 star Stug IIIF/8 is really powerful and will make the Russian medium tanks think twice before attacking. I make extensive use of these guys (usually having 3 or 4), however it depends on your preference and available prestige.
This sounds exactly like something I could have needed for my desperate situation in '43. Will try to save up the money for these when trying again.

JimmyC wrote:Just one last note regarding the Tiger tank, which is a mainstay of the grand campaign/vanilla game. In this mod, I frankly don’t like them much and would purchase a Panther over a Tiger anyday. Having said that, if you want to get one, then the Tiger I becomes available in Apr ‘43 and Tiger II in Jun ’44. Just make sure you save up for them, as these guys are EXPENSIVE!
Just let people bring it to use in the russian winter(you get one for free anyway), and I'm sure not many would like to buy a bigger number of those.
Great for choke point defending, shame you can't buy a horse cart to increase its mobility, though. :mrgreen:

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