PC Base campaign advice please

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AnalogGamer
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PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:22 am

greetings all,

Playing through the base campaign a time or two before buying the grand campaign, and then really forgetting what the sun looks like.

Custom settings, basically Colonel with a 5% prestige boost to me and 10% to the enemy, plus an extra turn. Farming for the new player until I get the hang of the differences between this and PG Forever.

I have taken the "green"(from the manual tree) campaign path and am now at the USA East scenario.

Saved at "pre-buy" with 8900 prestige. Can always go back and buy again. After restoration, balanced upgrades, and over-strength to 11-13, I am at 2646 prestige, and am also at a crossroads of options.

Still have the three core unit slots that the scenario gives me. Help me fill them with the 2600 and change that I have left please. :)

Here is my current Order Of Battle - I subscribe to the 2/2/2 divisional pattern. 2 tank, 2 inf, 2 art, plus attachments, per divisional formation, as campaign progresses. All INF units are 43. Gebirajäger are called Mtn and Grenadier are called Hvy Wpn, so I do not have to spell in German.

1st Div -

1x Pioneer
1x Hvy Wpn
1x Panther G
1x Tiger II(w/+2 move)
1x 210mm art
1x Hummel
1x 233 8Rad
1x Elephant

2nd Div -

1x Pioneer
1x Hvy Wpn
1x Panther G
1x Tiger I(w/+1 move)
1x 210mm Art
1x Hummel
1x 233 8Rad
1x Elephant

3rd Div -

1x Pioneer
1x Mtn(no transport-nimble li'l b@sterds)
1x Panther G(w/+2 spot/semi-recon)
1x Tiger I(w/+1 move)
1x 210mm Art
1x Hummel

There is a new(only +1 overstrength) core Pioneer that can be assigned to wherever they need to go. Only unit with the new halftracks(8 move).

Air Power OOB is...

3x FW 190A
3x ME 262A
2x Ju 87D
2x ME 410A
1x He 177A
1x E555I(good gawd I couldn't pass up those numbers, but the price made me squeal)


There are a plethora of other leaders that make my force quite formidable in the combinations I have placed them in... I just posted the relevant ones for tank movement and spotting.

The Elephants are semi-new as well, with only +1 and no leaders. I am hoping for movement leaders this battle.

All six artillery are maxxed at 13, recons as well. I prefer the movement and ammo of the Hummel over the protection of the 38(t). All other units are at least 11, and usually at least one under what they could be if I had the prestige. If my Level bombers were at 14 and 15 instead of 12 and 13 it would be a lot better at sea. I don't want to talk about what the E555 overstrengths cost.

----

So there you have it.

My thoughts... According to the campaign tree, I have two marginals to farm before I have to get the decisive at the west coast. If I needed decisive victories then I would buy three Paras and drop them down south, while burning the rest on upgrades and overstrength.

I want the rail gun. I want it I want it I want it. :twisted: I used the Stalingrad gun to reduce the Maxim Gorki fort, then went on a rampage all the way to the end. It fired on the last victory hex, to allow me to move my troops in at the bottom of the map. I know how to plan and maneuver it... but is it worth it? Are there more railways in the next two missions? Was sorely tempted to turn two of my Hummels into rail guns since they had lost their overstrength.

The price of the really sweet toys will limit my purchase ability, to two nice ones and one para or some such. Mediocre units will probably melt under what surely awaits me in the next three missions. Especially being XP-poor, as any new unit will be.

All I have to go on is what I have read in the AARs re: what I am facing.

What say ye? Three slots. 2600 prestige. Existing core force is sweet but could be sweeter.

Saved at mid-buy, and taking a break. Maybe I will go buy the grand campaign for when I finish this one.

Thank you for your attention, and may your artillery never fall short.

ThvN
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by ThvN » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:05 am

AnalogGamer wrote:I want the rail gun. I want it I want it I want it. :twisted: I used the Stalingrad gun to reduce the Maxim Gorki fort, then went on a rampage all the way to the end. It fired on the last victory hex, to allow me to move my troops in at the bottom of the map. I know how to plan and maneuver it... but is it worth it? Are there more railways in the next two missions? Was sorely tempted to turn two of my Hummels into rail guns since they had lost their overstrength.
I like the railguns, but like you say, their effectiveness is very dependant on the track layout, even though they have 4 range. If it helps, the final two scenarios have some usable railways as well, but if I remember correctly you basically have to choose carefully and commit to a northern or southern set of tracks while deploying, because they won't cross until at least halfway through the map. And I think you get a Gustav gun for the final scenario, so if you really want one, just one K5 railgun would be enough I think. Better keep some prestige in reserve to keep the strength levels up.

And I'm not sure if you know about Rate of Fire? (It's a hidden stat) Because while the railgun (K5) is nice and has very high attack stats, it has a very low rate of fire... It is most efficient when attacking targets with very high defenses. A 10-str Hummel has 9 attacks, a 10-str K5 has only 6 attacks. So it only has an advantage when engaging targets with a total defense strength of at least 10 or so (roughly speaking).

Basically, a K5's massive attack strength is wasted on targets with low defenses (artillery, AA guns), make sure you have enough good targets for them!

AnalogGamer
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:42 pm

Thank you for the reply ThvN.

The rate of fire nugget you gave me sent me on a search for the equipment file .pdf.

Found it, and am re-thinking my strategy and tactics.

The FortKiller and ROF stats are important pieces of information, that I wish I had many missions ago. :) If I use a rail gun now, it will be a 13 OS unit. I could have been using pioneers to kill forts, and instead have been avoiding them due to fear of damage.

I see that my SE Panzers carry an ammo and hard attack bonus as well. Will have to dive deeper into SE stats for other units, to see if I may want a different set next time around.

Piddling little Flammpanzer is quite the beast in the right situation.

So, my 210mm is not the wonderweapon I thought. Lousy ROF.

What does "primary" mean in the traits column?

I am going back to the "pre-buy" savepoint, and taking a long hard look at my options in regards to in-class and out-of-class upgrades, as well as my three open slots.

The three Panther upgrades are a no-brainer at like 9 points each. I still think that the Tiger II is the best buy for my +2 move unit. Tiger I for my +1 move units also seem logical to keep everyone at 6.

All my troops are fine, and I see no need for the 250/1 hannomags at 200 a pop. Why outrun my armor?

The Elephants are what they are... slow, but I hold out hope for leaders.

I like my recons as is. Balanced in stats.

This brings me to artillery and air power.

Should I downgrade my 210s to gain ROF?

If I save prestige by keeping all my FW 190s, will that hurt me in the air? I can buy two ME 262 and lose no OS points.

The Stukas are at their limit with the D model. I do not like the G, and would have to spend serious out-of-class prestige to change them.

My 410s are nice, but there is another option that I like. The 12/11 hard/soft Arado Blitz.

Is it worth the two grand to upgrade both HE 177s to the Amerika Bomber? Those stats are awe-inspiring and they could be at 14 and 15. Goodbye Yankee Navy. That means throwing away three OS points on an HE 177, and then spending like mad to build them both up.

And there are still the three empty slots. Maybe a 3rd recon, an arty and a tank to make up a partial 4th division with my extra pioneer. Kampfgruppe Krazy, The Armored Cavalry Regiment.

I could buy three nice things and overstrength everyone, but make almost no upgrade purchases at all.

Decisions, decisions... :)

hs1611
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by hs1611 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:57 pm

Just a quick general advice.

You can buy more CORE units than the number of available deployment slots. But you can only do this during deployment and while you still have at least one slot open.

For instance, during deployment suppose you have 20 slots available for that particular scenario.
As long as you have not yet deployed all 20 CORE units you can keep buying more CORE units. If you have prestige, of course.
Having more CORE units than available slots allows you to keep units in Reserve to replace losses during the scenarios, or, when a unit has reach the experience cap you can leave it in reserve and use green units in order to get them experienced.
Or you can deploy more or less aircraft, depending on the scenario. For instance, I tend to buy 3 Strategic Bombers. But I only deploy all 3 of them when there's a naval part to the scenario. If not I nornally only deploy 1.

Ideally you should not have to buy new green units during the last few scenarios. You should already have some extra experienced units.

AnalogGamer
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:44 pm

Thank you! That is a nugget that will make the next go-round a bit easier on my nerves. :) I plan on running it at general once these three missions are done.

bebro
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by bebro » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:07 pm

AnalogGamer wrote: What does "primary" mean in the traits column?
This is for switch units, indicates the version you buy. Like 88 Flak is bought always as AA, not as AT, but can switch to AT in-game (which has a separate entry in the eqp file in the AT class, and without the "primary" trait). Unless you want to mod in own switch units there's not much about it.

AnalogGamer
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:28 am

Thanks bebro, that makes perfect sense now that I see it.

I have decided to push on by fleshing out 3rd division and adding a new punch to my bomber fleet. I went back to "pre buy", and made this happen.

Upgrades -

2x Me 262 - They were at 10 so cost no extra OS.

1x Tiger II - Only +2 move leader in armor corps, and the other two vanilla Tigers have +1 move, so all armor moves at 6.

3x Panther G - at 19 a pop to take from A model to G, I splurged. :)

I left everyone else alone. This allowed me to do this...

Purchases -

1x E555 - The American Navy is out there... I just know it. This is the cure for the common capital ship.

1x Elephant - 3rd Division round-out regiment.

1x 234/2Rad - 3rd Division round-out regiment.

All other units to 12, 13 or 14, with all fighters and artillery to max.

1st Division goes ashore up North immediately, everyone else stays out of range until I get the measure of the Navy and Air Force facing me. I see no reason to lose overstrength before getting ashore, when a marginal victory is all I need here.

Killing a single radar and fort before approaching with my main force could save a lot of hassle later on.

I used to live in Ocean City, Maryland... and now an Elephant regiment is about to trample it. The DelMarVa peninsula is my gateway to D.C.

EDIT - And I still have a 11 strength, no-leader pioneer regiment as my Corps on-map reserve. I am sending them, as well as my other newbies, out in front as soon as my beach heads are secure. It is time to blood the green troops.

AnalogGamer
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:01 pm

Well, that was ... instructive. :)

Got my head handed to me.

Overstrength FW 190As are NO match for the Ami air force. They suffered horrendous casualties on the attack, and made out even worse when attacked in return.

Forts and Troops can hurt transports a lot worse here in PC-land than I thought would be the case.

Fort saw a cruiser, which led to an air attack, which saw the transports behind, which led to devastation from air and sea.

I slogged it out for 5 turns, killing the enemy naval and air forces, and getting fully ashore.

Lost more cores in those few turns than I have in years of PG play. LOL

Back to ye olde Pre-buy drawing board for the first time in a campaign in a very long time.

Obviously, I need 6x ME 262 fully overstrengthed, which will limit everything else a bit.

Any help getting me ashore would be greatly appreciated. All I need is a marginal, but I would prefer not to lose cores getting it. :)

MartyWard
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by MartyWard » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:43 pm

AnalogGamer wrote:Well, that was ... instructive. :)

Got my head handed to me.

Overstrength FW 190As are NO match for the Ami air force. They suffered horrendous casualties on the attack, and made out even worse when attacked in return.

Forts and Troops can hurt transports a lot worse here in PC-land than I thought would be the case.

Fort saw a cruiser, which led to an air attack, which saw the transports behind, which led to devastation from air and sea.

I slogged it out for 5 turns, killing the enemy naval and air forces, and getting fully ashore.

Lost more cores in those few turns than I have in years of PG play. LOL

Back to ye olde Pre-buy drawing board for the first time in a campaign in a very long time.

Obviously, I need 6x ME 262 fully overstrengthed, which will limit everything else a bit.

Any help getting me ashore would be greatly appreciated. All I need is a marginal, but I would prefer not to lose cores getting it. :)
Remember you don't need to deploy all your forces in the Deployment phase. You can just deploy aircraft and a few transports to secure a beachhead if you first want to engage the US navy and air force.

braccada
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by braccada » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:34 pm

I am not quite there with my current Let's Play, but I found an old game at field marshal difficulty. I managed a DV and destroyed each enemy unit in time with this setup. I did not know about things like ROF at that time, so the composition might not be ideal but it will definitely work. If I remember correctly I did not use full overstrength, but invested in upgrades instead. On field marshal your units only get half exp so most units are at 2 stars, but not all have 2 overstrength points on them. That simply is too expensive!

But here is the list:
  • 9 Infantry (1 Regular, 2 Grenadiers, 2 Fallschirmjäger, 1 Gebirgsjäger, 2 Pioneers, 1 SE Infantry)
  • 8 Tanks (2 Panther, 4 Tiger II, 2 SE Tiger II)
  • 2 Recon
  • 8 Artillery (4 21cm, 3 Wurfrahmen, 1 Railgun)
  • 5 Fighters (2 FW190, 3 Go 229)
  • 4 Bombers (1 Stuka, 1 ME410, 2 Heinkel)
Could not get all equipement I would have liked. Panthers and FW190 are kind of underpowered at this one...

Here is the setup, mostly landing boats, but well at least you can see the overstrength levels..
PC1.jpg
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Last edited by braccada on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Follow my Grand Let's Play series: Rommel, Manstein and Guderian
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=53035

braccada
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by braccada » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:49 pm

On turn three not much seems to have happend. But the the landing operation is about to start and the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine had a hard time protecting the troops and clearing the way. But now seems to be a perfect opportunity, because theUS Air force has to refuel. Unfortunately we have no intel on the defending forces...
PC2.jpg
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Last edited by braccada on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Follow my Grand Let's Play series: Rommel, Manstein and Guderian
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=53035

braccada
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by braccada » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:08 pm

Success! With constant support of our capitals ships beachheads are secured and the capital is taken on turn 9 at the cost of massive losses. Especially the Luftwaffe is in bad shape, but with vital airfields unter control reinforcements are possible.
PC3.jpg
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At turn 11 the situation is mostly under control. Last heavy elements of the US Navy have to be dealt with in the south. But our tanks have open terrain ahead of them and massive concentration of artillery in the center can deal with the last strongpoints. But most important - the sky is safe now and our Fallschirmjäger already race to the southern cities and by using the rail network our forces will quickly secure the undefended cities.
PC4.jpg
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Follow my Grand Let's Play series: Rommel, Manstein and Guderian
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=53035

AnalogGamer
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by AnalogGamer » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:20 pm

Thanks for the input and advice.

Nice work braccada!

The six overstrength ME 262s did the trick for me, along with a few more turns of patience on my part. The 262s got a few good exchanges early, which led to the quick elimination of the Ami bombers.

My three purchases were an E555 and two paras. The paras farmed prestige by dropping on all those empty airfields next to cities.

I just stood well offshore until I KNEW where all Ami naval and air forces were. Except for up North. 1st Division went ashore with minimal losses.

Sacrificed my destroyer line to hold and bunch the enemy fleet. My E555, two HE177s and two Stukas went to work with a will, along with my fleet.

Once the enemy fleet and air force were dealt with, I turned my attention to the two forts that were impeding a rapid landing.

Once ashore in good order, it was a cakewalk.

I lost a lot of overstrength, and had about half my air force at 6-8 by battle's end.

Farmed all the way to turn 21 of 23.

---

On to the Midwest...

Made up losses and filled out 4th division(Hvy Wpn, 210mm, Hummel), as well as buying another ME 262 and a FW190G tac bomber.

All experienced units are at 11-13.

Just have to mosey along for the marginal to get to the West Coast and the end...

Current OOB -

4x Pioneer
3x Hvy Wpn
1x Mtn

3x Panther G
2x Tiger I
1x Tiger II
2x Elephant

2x 233/8rad

4x 210mm(the red team is still king of the battlefield)
4x Hummel

7x ME 262
2x Ju 87D(they still rock)
2x ME 410
2x He177
1x E555(awesome aircraft)

braccada
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Re: PC Base campaign advice please

Post by braccada » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:14 pm

Good luck for the final mission! That one steps up difficulty by a notch, without being unfair. As far as I remember I could beat it by buying a Sturmpanther behind the lines to take care of a victory location. This way I had not to divert forces and had enough punch to break the final defences.
Follow my Grand Let's Play series: Rommel, Manstein and Guderian
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=53035

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