How are attributes of heros calculated?

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MagicAndre1981
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How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by MagicAndre1981 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:57 pm

Hi,

how are are attributes of heros calculated? Some special attributes make no sense, like spotting +1 for a Artillery. Here defense, movement, range or attack make more sense.

captainjack
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by captainjack » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:03 am

Heroes are randomly allocated.There is an equal chance of
Attack, Defence, Initiative, Movement and Spotting.
BUT Artillery and AA get +1 range instead of initiative. If your 88mm AA gun gets +1 range, that only applies when it's an AA gun, so no long range AT attacks.
For Attack and Defence, you get 4/7 chances of +1, 2/7 of getting +2 and 1/7 for getting +3. Everything else is +1.

Spotting on artillery and initiative on a strategic bomber are pretty much useless. I'd rather a +1 ammo hero as an alternative, but these are properties that can't be modded.

2010sjones2010
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by 2010sjones2010 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:32 am

I would like to take this post one stage further. I "cheated" on the early DLC's by painstakingly saving on a regular basis so that when I was awarded a hero attribute that I didn't want I could reload the game and keep repeating the attack until I received the attribute I wanted. This became a lot easier when the individual unit had reached its maximum kills. Therefore by the time I got to the '43 DLC's I had units with two medals totalling 6 attack or defence values, two artillery units with range plus 1 and several infantry and tank units with movement plus 1 which I wanted for obvious reasons. I play with no fog of war so I made sure I had no units with spotting medals and I am not a fan of initiative medals so no units had these either. I had the exact number of units only, that I am allowed at this point of the game in my unit list. However I am now finding that how ever many times I continue to save and reload I am no longer getting 2 or 3 star defence/attack medals on any units, and no movement or range medals either. I am instead getting all the attack, defence, initiative and spotting one star medals on a permanent basis which leaves me to believe there are a limited number of two and three star attack and defence medals. Is this correct?

shawkhan2
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by shawkhan2 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:17 pm

It would make more sense to have a cheat allowing one to choose the attribute desired, as you are already cheating anyway in a very inefficient manner.;)

HalfLifeExpert
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by HalfLifeExpert » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:04 pm

One thing about heroes I have not always understood is sometime the attribute, not nessicarily fitting the situation. This is really with Attack or Defense

For example, if one of my tank unit delivers a crushing attack, sometimes I get a defensive hero, why?

captainjack
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by captainjack » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:23 am

The hero is allocated randomly, so the only behaviour of your unit that is considered is the total number of kills, since this is what triggers award of a hero. The only exception is for special units which are created with heroes. But even with these, once they get enough kills to be awarded an extra hero, the hero is randomly assigned and has nothing to do with the unit's past.

The fact that the hero generator is completely random is why, even when you have just had five spotting heroes on your artillery, the chances of getting another spotting hero is still 1 in 5. I had this disappointing experience in Kaiserschlact last time round, followed by a single +2 attack and then two more spotting heroes on infantry units.

verstaubtgesicht
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by verstaubtgesicht » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:39 am

2010sjones2010 wrote:I would like to take this post one stage further. I "cheated" on the early DLC's by painstakingly saving on a regular basis so that when I was awarded a hero attribute that I didn't want I could reload the game and keep repeating the attack until I received the attribute I wanted. This became a lot easier when the individual unit had reached its maximum kills. Therefore by the time I got to the '43 DLC's I had units with two medals totalling 6 attack or defence values, two artillery units with range plus 1 and several infantry and tank units with movement plus 1 which I wanted for obvious reasons. I play with no fog of war so I made sure I had no units with spotting medals and I am not a fan of initiative medals so no units had these either. I had the exact number of units only, that I am allowed at this point of the game in my unit list. However I am now finding that how ever many times I continue to save and reload I am no longer getting 2 or 3 star defence/attack medals on any units, and no movement or range medals either. I am instead getting all the attack, defence, initiative and spotting one star medals on a permanent basis which leaves me to believe there are a limited number of two and three star attack and defence medals. Is this correct?
Cheating to get +3 heroes is a definite non-no, but I just don't understand why a spotting hero would be an option on artillery, or an initiative hero on a bomber, etc. There are simply hero combos that make no sense. That's where I reload.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by captainjack » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:44 am

I agree that the useless heroes are very annoying.

Given that you can have a range hero in place of initiative for artillery and AA, it should be possible for the devs to create a few more alternatives for units that don't benefit from the initial hero in the next update without too much hassle.

I can think of two new heroes that would fit into the current pattern, and would be handy without completely distorting game balance (+1 ammo and +5 or so fuel).

I'm a fan of ammo for artillery and bombers so I'd like a new +1 ammo hero for artillery in place of spotting, and for strategic bombers in place of initiative (since spotting can be useful for bombers, but initiative is hardly ever useful). It would probably be good to have ammo in place of initiative for tac bombers as while initiative is not very useful for the ones that have active air attack (110 and FW) initiative is completely useless for the rest (Stuka and HS129).

I could also see a fuel hero +5 being really useful for some units - eg a Tiger, Elefant or Jagdtiger, and would be handy for most other mechanised troops and aircraft, but you'd need an alternative for non-mechanised troops (move +1 would be the obvious alternate for infantry and cavalry). Maybe the fuel could be variable eg +5/+8/+10.

These could reflect several real-world skills. Your unit gets better at scavenging extra supplies, or your status gets you treated better or you are smarter with your firing patterns and route selection and get the same results as others while using less.

MagicAndre1981
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by MagicAndre1981 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:36 pm

ok, I see that I'm not the only one who is confused.


When I played PG3D, the attributes are fixed based on the unit type (Inf gets +4 defence, AA can move an fire for example) and the 2nd attribute was randomly set. Maybe the programmers change it a bit in the patch for Sea lion.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by Horst » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:52 pm

I’m still waiting (forever?) for a hero bonus config file either, similar like the exp.pzdat one where you can adjust the bonuses according to experience stars.
Nevertheless, I got used to accept whatever random hero bonus I receive for my units to keep the campaigns more challenging. Everything can sometimes be useful in a situation, but I understand that certain bonuses like defense become almost mandatory on the extreme difficulty grades (which I don’t really enjoy to play).
Without reloads, getting good heroes is a lot more exciting, especially when you receive something ridiculous like a defense+7 tank what I just got today for the first time that high. I guess Lady Luck rewards the honest generals sometimes. I can’t wait to let it steamroll London later! :twisted:

wargovichr
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by wargovichr » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:15 am

I'd like to see some reward for medals, perhaps an extra ammo or fuel, or extra movement for a turn or two. From the men at HQ to the boys downtada front.
Somethin'.
Maybe a free upgrade in battle (must go to nearest objective/city) for a biggie.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by wargovichr » Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:41 pm

Or maybe a one or two strength point reinforcement!

Ursulet
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by Ursulet » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:26 pm

verstaubtgesicht wrote:
2010sjones2010 wrote:I would like to take this post one stage further. I "cheated" on the early DLC's by painstakingly saving on a regular basis so that when I was awarded a hero attribute that I didn't want I could reload the game and keep repeating the attack until I received the attribute I wanted. This became a lot easier when the individual unit had reached its maximum kills. Therefore by the time I got to the '43 DLC's I had units with two medals totalling 6 attack or defence values, two artillery units with range plus 1 and several infantry and tank units with movement plus 1 which I wanted for obvious reasons. I play with no fog of war so I made sure I had no units with spotting medals and I am not a fan of initiative medals so no units had these either. I had the exact number of units only, that I am allowed at this point of the game in my unit list. However I am now finding that how ever many times I continue to save and reload I am no longer getting 2 or 3 star defence/attack medals on any units, and no movement or range medals either. I am instead getting all the attack, defence, initiative and spotting one star medals on a permanent basis which leaves me to believe there are a limited number of two and three star attack and defence medals. Is this correct?
Cheating to get +3 heroes is a definite non-no, but I just don't understand why a spotting hero would be an option on artillery, or an initiative hero on a bomber, etc. There are simply hero combos that make no sense. That's where I reload.
I do the same for GC 39-45: Spotting/movement heroes = reload except on reco/fighters and arty for the +1move . same for défense heroes on flak.

For the others AK/AC i dont bother, i buy new units as getting a hero is quite fast.
It gives me some bad unit and some awesome ones. I'm playing AC right now and have a mosquito with +4 Att and one Churchill with +6 Def.

MagicAndre1981
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by MagicAndre1981 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:18 pm

Patch 1.25 doesn't really improve it. I still got spotting for Artillery :(

Here the old PanzerGeneralII/3D was better. Each unit type had a fixed 1st hero attribute (Artillery was always range +1, Inf is defense+4) and the 2nd hero attribute was a random value from a list of 2nd attributes like can fire twice per round.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by ptje63 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:19 am

Follow-up question relating to distribution of heroes: have just started for the East GC for 2nd time, after being stranded in my first attempt somewhere in 1943.
I know each unit can receive up to 3 heroes most, but is there a limit to the amount of heroes distributed? I mean: will each unit (depending on amount of kills of course) receive its three heroes max. right until April 1945?
At the moment I am keeping my 3-hero-units in reserve, so other less experienced units can gather theirs, but is this a good strategy - will they also receive heroes?

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by TSPC37730 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:37 pm

ptje63 wrote:At the moment I am keeping my 3-hero-units in reserve, so other less experienced units can gather theirs, but is this a good strategy - will they also receive heroes?
I don't know of any limit to the total number of heroes you can accumulate. Your other units should receive heroes as well. I also agree with & use your strategy of trying to get as many 3-hero units as possible. This can take awhile - especially for some unit types. Tanks and infantry are fairly straightforward. Artillery, AA & strategic bombers may take most of the campaign to get to that level. Also note that your first hero can arrive fairly quickly. The second & third hero may not arrive for years. I would also add that you should prioritize improving units with scripted, multi-bonus "super heroes" such as Rudel & Lent to maximize your potential benefit. In the big picture, toward the end of the campaign you'll need units with as many heroes and as much experience as you can get to cope with the onslaught. Good luck.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by Rood » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:33 pm

I have about 500 hundred thousand +spotting heroes in Soviet Corps :(

OK maybe a bit less, but without exaggerating 50% of the heroes I have are spotting heroes and they are in most cases utterly useless.

Next play through I'm gonna save scum like hell to avoid them.

I must admit that I wonder if something has changed with patch 1.25, 50% chance for spotting hero is ridiculously high.
Also, I've experienced getting a hero on the same unit within a few (sometimes the next!) turn.

What would be really great if we could mod the type of heroes one could get (just the kind of hero not the bonus number) for each class.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by RVallant » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:51 pm

Spotting heroes need to be restricted to recon units tbh.

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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by goose_2 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:43 pm

RVallant wrote:Spotting heroes need to be restricted to recon units tbh.

+1
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Re: How are attributes of heros calculated?

Post by Kolaris » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:38 pm

Horst wrote:I’m still waiting (forever?) for a hero bonus config file either, similar like the exp.pzdat one where you can adjust the bonuses according to experience stars.
+1 I would very much like this. Rudankort mentioned it was planned around the time of Allied Corps, not sure what happened...

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