M3a1 soviet scout car

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TopGun1
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M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by TopGun1 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:30 pm

I am playing a multiplayer scenario steamroller vs steel and the soviet scout car seems impervious to my attacks , I mean I attack it with a elephant and it does minimal damage, and this isnt just once I mean through the whole game, does this unit have some special quality LOL, ITS A SCOUT /RECON its description is a soft target and should be blown out of the water being attacked by a tiger or elephant or any armor for that matter , is this a glitch. or am I missing something . thinks its called a m3a1 scout/recon :shock:
Last edited by TopGun1 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

captainjack
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Re: soviet scout car

Post by captainjack » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:33 am

Elefants fire on unarmoured scout cars. AP shell passes through the first one - probably taking the engine with it - and the rest scatter and run away. Second shot from the Elefant either never gets fired or is aimed at small dispersed targets with a limited supply of HE rounds. Best option is call in the artillery, a tank with a decent HE shell or bring on the infantry.

In game terms, field guns or rocket launchers will cause a plenty of damage to soft targets. Otherwise, rather than using an AT unit with SA of 4 or 5, a 75mm or bigger gun (Panzer 3N, any Panzer IV, Panther or Tiger) or a bomber should work.

In single player, a captured tank would be a good option (Char B has SA8 and the KV1 and T34 have SA 6 to 8).

TopGun1
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Re: soviet scout car

Post by TopGun1 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:30 pm

Well like I said also use tiger and same result. Ok thanks for the input , ill have to try a different approach. 8)

TopGun1
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Re: soviet scout car

Post by TopGun1 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:16 am

The unit is a m3a1 scout / recon soviet forces, this unit I think has a glitch . recheck it.

captainjack
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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by captainjack » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:31 am

It does indeed have generous defensive and offensive stats for a vehicle with 6.4mm of face hardened armour, a 0.5" browning and a pair of 0.3" MGs.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by Egge » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:03 am

This is not a bug, the program does exactly what it is supposed to do. The *tank* destroyer Elefant has a woefully low soft attack and the M3 Scout Car is a soft target. Consequently, you don't do any damage.

TopGun1
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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by TopGun1 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:15 pm

It can destroy a t34 but cant destroy a scout unit, Im sorry but that to me doesn't make sense.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:25 pm

topgun wrote:It can destroy a t34 but cant destroy a scout unit, Im sorry but that to me doesn't make sense.
A Gustav can flatten a fortress but can't specifically kill a single man. Same sort of logic.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by 88mmFlak » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:14 am

I totally agree with topgun. This scout car is ridiculously overpowered! I mean, it has a soft defense of somewhat 9 or 10 and since this scout car(s) are small, agil and fast I´m really fine with it. However, this little slightly armored cars also have a soft attack value of 9 (?, or something like this) which is in fact approximately the soft attack level of heavy tanks! Thus, this scout isn´t only hard to kill for the majority of its opponents because of its soft target nature coupled with a high value of soft defense, but even a very dangerous enemy to all sorts of soft targets ´cause its own high soft attack lvl. Remember, we are talking about a recon unit...

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by TopGun1 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:01 pm

It doesn't make for much fun or skill when your opponent has like 20 of these running around.

proline
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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by proline » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:40 am

captainjack wrote:It does indeed have generous defensive and offensive stats for a vehicle with 6.4mm of face hardened armour, a 0.5" browning and a pair of 0.3" MGs.
Defense isn't just about armor thickness. That's the kind of logic that led to recon becoming completely and utterly useless in Panzer Corps. Aside from this car, one shot from anything post 1943 destroys even a 5* recon. For recon to be effective it has to be possible to move it ahead of your army and still survive an attack or two. This car does that, making it the only viable recon unit in the game. Think of the defense as reflecting the fact that the car can spot attackers at a distance and run away, as opposed to shear armor.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by captainjack » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:21 am

proline wrote:Think of the defense as reflecting the fact that the car can spot attackers at a distance and run away, as opposed to shear armor.
I agree with this view of defence, especially for recon.

The problem with the M3A1 is more that the initiative of 9 is extremely high, along with SA and HA. Initiative is mainly supposed to represent effective combat range, and while the 0.5" Browning was good, it shouldn't have the same effective combat range as a late model 75mm tank gun. The SA damage from a 0.5" and a pair of 0.3" machine guns should be a bit better than that of twin MG tanks - more like 4 or 5, rather than 9 which is what you get for a pair of MGs and an 85mm HE shell in a T34 85. HA is also very generous, even allowing for a bazooka or two. Look at the LRDG and Sahariana stats, which cover vehicles that typically started with 0.5" and 0.3" MG (or local equivalent) then added 20mm cannon, or 47mm AT/light artillery guns, and a few light machine guns and whatever else they could fit on that did damage. The M3A1 has better SA, HA and initiative than these elite heavily armed strike units, as well as better defence.

It's not so much the accuracy or otherwise, but more that they seem unbalanced for such a low price.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by goose_2 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:07 pm

captainjack wrote:
proline wrote:Think of the defense as reflecting the fact that the car can spot attackers at a distance and run away, as opposed to shear armor.


It's not so much the accuracy or otherwise, but more that they seem unbalanced for such a low price.

Exactly, I have brought this up to the developers. It has changed the balance of everyones favorite balanced maps on the original game, and that is not good. :evil:
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zjorz
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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by zjorz » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:58 am

M3A1
Soft Attack 9
Hard Attack 7
Initiative 9
Ground defence 10

M3 75 GMC
Soft Attack 4
Hard Attack 14
Initiative 4
Ground defence 2

Looks balanced to me /jk

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by uran21 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:46 pm

M3A1 Scout Car and GAZ-67B will get all around reduction with most noticeable drop in attack capabilities. Still they will retain it's survival capabilities granted by ground defense and being a soft target.

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Re: M3a1 soviet scout car

Post by proline » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:42 pm

zjorz wrote:M3A1
Soft Attack 9
Hard Attack 7
Initiative 9
Ground defence 10

M3 75 GMC
Soft Attack 4
Hard Attack 14
Initiative 4
Ground defence 2

Looks balanced to me /jk
You're comparing it to an absolutely useless unit that almost none of us would ever buy. Again, we wanted a recon unit that was actually useful, unlike all the rest, so of course the stats will be better. The fact that you don't need recon and can do better without it is one of the weaker aspects of PzC.

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