Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

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uncajerf
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Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

Although this discussion was briefly (sorry!) raised in the SC Closed Beta forum, and I posted this topic not long ago originally in the USC Closed forum, I wish to re-post, as I was late there, and, now that the latter is released, I can try to reach more readers.

I know I'm not quite alone in having a hard time accepting the 'tone' of many of the game's briefings, especially for the latter two expansions. As a player, I don't mind being berated or even belittled if it's justified and within game context, but getting threatened with being shot, or mocked for my skill (or lack thereof) from a supposed inferior, frankly pi$$e$ me off! :x

Besides that, along with myriad spelling, grammatical, and similar errors -- sorry! just saying! -- I finally decided to do something about it by offering my editing suggestions to said briefings. Therefore, attached is a .docx of more or less the first half of the entire series' .pzbrf files. The first, v1, uses Word 2010's Review feature to show all changes as well as liberal Comments throughout. It is hard to read, admittedly, so v1.1 changes the font, but also Accepts all changes and removes all comments. I am still working on v2, with the rest of the files.

I'll let the comments speak for themselves; if you want, simply read the comments before going on to v1.1, or else simultaneously with the latter. Not that I'm telling anyone how to read! I simply don't wish to repeat my arguments for recommended edits, and I'd appreciate feedback. In later versions I plan to expand a bit on my premises: For example, set a tone and background for each campaign that is consistent and makes sense; give a little more atmosphere and situational context; perhaps give 'promotions', as the original did, and I for one, appreciated. And so on.

Other than the fact that I'm aware that many of the files have already been 'set' to voice acting, and are therefore likely unchangeable 'officially', just one more note: I have also removed all dates and formatting codes for ease of reading.

I can and possibly will re-do the .pzbrf txt files that can then be used as a 'mod', but I wanted to gauge reaction to the whole issue; perhaps I'm in a small minority who has a problem with these things?

Looking forward to feedback!


uncajerf

EDIT 06/06/16: Remaining files posted 'PANZER CORPS v2.rar'. Plan now is to work on v2.1, which will clean up the text similar to v1.1.
Attachments
PANZER CORPS v2.rar
2nd 'half' of the .pzbrf files
(210.28 KiB) Downloaded 226 times
PANZER CORPS v1-1.rar
v1.1
(109.88 KiB) Downloaded 348 times
PANZER CORPS.rar
v1
(155.09 KiB) Downloaded 16162 times
Last edited by uncajerf on Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

My main issue is that the SC briefings don't really say anything above: "You are now at X, attack/defend for a while. Fritz is evil, blah blah blah".

A picture of a cat would tell me about the same amount.

Someone really should just make whole new ones that have some purpose beyond space-filling.

- BNC (I can't comment on USC, I don't have it)
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by b52pilot1 »

This seems like a petty issue. The briefings are just to add flavor, and they do not have a big impact on gameplay. I think you're taking this too seriously!

Also, I don't think an "inferior" officer is berating you in the briefings...it's a "superior" officer. That's how the military works -- higher-ranking officers give orders to lower-ranking officers, and so on. And you better believe that some of those superior officers do not tolerate any incompetence and will let you know what will happen if you screw up!

Just my two cents.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by BJGeary »

The problem with Soviet Corps is that you get berated even after Triumphs. Repeatedly. It's silly and detracts from the game. Getting chewed out for doing better than expected is not how professional military officers behave. Not even under the Soviet system.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by b52pilot1 »

I just see it differently...I don't think you're getting chewed out for doing better than expected. During the briefings, you're being told that even though you did a great job, you better not fail in this next assignment. The fate of the entire Soviet nation was at stake and failure was not an option. I think we're being too sensitive about something as petty as the 'tone' of a scenario briefing. It is realistic to me, given the time period and the Soviet military culture during that time. We just disagree about this, no worries.

I just want to thank the developers for creating such a good game and continuing to produce outstanding 'Panzer Corps' content...heavily criticizing the scenario briefings seems to overshadow the wonderfully entertaining product that they have produced.
Last edited by b52pilot1 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by Volpone »

It is a trivial thing, but I do agree with the OP. In the base campaign, I kicked the allies out of Italy, then threw Operation Overlord back into the Atlantic, forcing Britain and the US to sue for peace. I'm the greatest general ever! Oh, in my next mission, my superior threatened to shoot me in the head if I failed in my next mission. Really?

Other than that, the American briefer in Allied Corps sounds like Batman.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by goose_2 »

Volpone wrote:
Other than that, the American briefer in Allied Corps sounds like Batman.
I am Batman. ;)
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by b52pilot1 »

Volpone wrote:
Other than that, the American briefer in Allied Corps sounds like Batman.
You know....he does sound like Batman!!
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

Just to let everyone know, I am reading everything & appreciate all the feedback. I'm not responding directly as yet because I believe I've already made most of my points (in the docs' comments), so I'm waiting to see if there's some kind of general (sorry!) consensus.

Still working on the rest of the files, too (turns out to be more than half...).

Thanx!


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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

For those without the time (or inclination) to d/l & read the docs, I am going to post a couple of examples of the changes I'm proposing. Explanations or reasoning can be found in the docs' Comments.

First up is a re-draft of the briefing for Operation Torch:
___________________________________________________
Good afternoon, general, and welcome to London and our brand new Allied Force Headquarters, AFHQ, for North African and Mediterranean operations. Colonel David Bradley -- no relation -- staff officer. I’ll be briefing you on behalf of all senior officers present, including Commander-in-Chief, Allied Expeditionary Force, General Eisenhower. Have you met everyone? All right. Introductions all around, and then if everyone will help themselves to coffee, have a seat, we'll get started.

Nearly a year has passed since Germany declared war on the United States. Finally, we are about to enter the war against Germany on a large scale. Operation Torch is divided into three separate landings, designated Western, Center, and Eastern Task Forces. We'll deal with the Western landing first. You, general, will take command of the Western Task Force landing in Morocco. First priority is to seize the ports marked on the strategic map on the wall here. You'll note there are three of them, all vital: Safi, Casablanca, and Port Lyautey.

But we must do more. The Vichy French government controls this territory, general, and nominally they are German allies. The fact is, they may not fight, but we can’t be sure. To persuade them that the better part of valor is to abandon the Germans and join us, or at least remain neutral, we must occupy not only the designated ports but every settlement, and keep them garrisoned until the political issue with the French is resolved.

Now for the Center and Eastern Task Forces…

God willing, gentlemen, our invasion forces will soon be positioned to drive into Algeria and beyond into Tunisia, where we will link up with Field Marshall Montgomery’s British Eighth Army attacking from the east. Then we can finally throw the Axis out of North Africa entirely. But first, we’ve got to get ashore and stay ashore!

As I said, we’ve had nearly a year to prepare. Let's show the Germans -- and our allies -- that the US Army put the time to best use and is ready to fight and win! That's all, unless there are any questions…

Thanks for your attention, gentlemen. Oh, and give 'em hell!
______________________________________________________
Now, the Battle of Taranto (Taranto Raid):
______________________________________________________
Good day, gentlemen. Do be seated. Help yourselves to refreshments.

I am Commodore Reginald Smythe of His Majesty's Royal Navy. Before commencing today’s briefing, I would like to welcome our guest, a Major General from the British Army. For reasons of security, he must remain nameless. Although he will officially remain an observer on this mission, MI6 has asked me to clarify that, and I quote, “he should be extended every courtesy”.

I shall get to the point: If the British Empire is to retain its strategic position in North Africa, the sea lanes must be secured. They cannot be secured unless the Italian fleet is neutralised. The Regia Marina is, of course, a very large fleet, possessing a number of very formidable vessels. It has not been used aggressively; but even as a passive threat, it must be countered.

A very radical plan has been put forward to attack the Italian fleet by air while it is at anchor in Taranto. The Italians regard Taranto as a secure anchorage; we shall demonstrate otherwise.

This mission’s goal is to locate the Italian battleships in the harbour and sink them. Perhaps I need not mention that the Italian defences are very formidable, so it is likely that more than one wave of attacks will be required. Resupply will be available on the aircraft carrier Illustrious for the Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers as well as their Hawker Hurricane fighter escorts.

Gentlemen, this sort of attack has never been attempted before; we are about to make naval -- and perhaps military -- history!

Good luck, one and all!
________________________________________________
And now a response to a decisive victory in the final Tutorial:
________________________________________________
Outstanding! You’ve arrived here much sooner than anticipated -- an impressive start to your new career. Congratulations on a job well done, Herr Generalmajor! I salute you. Sieg, Heil!
________________________________________________
Finally, a more reasonable and professional debriefing after a loss (USA East Coast):
________________________________________________
It appears that OKH severely underestimated the American ability to resist an invasion, Generalfeldmarschall. Our fleets lie at the bottom of the Atlantic, and your remaining forces are completely isolated on the US mainland. Already, we are receiving reports of a massive American counterattack building.

OKH feels that an immediate surrender will at least save the lives of our men. As for us, mein Herr, what to do? To have come this far, only to… Do we risk falling into the enemy’s hands, or do we wish an honorable conclusion to our careers? We may yet escape, to enjoy a peace that will surely come now -- though much less favorable than it would have been.

Wenn nur, Herr Generalfeldmarschall…
_________________________________________________
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

Since I cannot add more than three attachments to a single post, I am attaching v2.1 here.

Next step, I will combine v1.1 & v2.1 into one doc, and edit once more for errors, etc. (v3).


uncajerf

EDIT: 11/06/16. v3 attached!
Attachments
PANZER CORPS v3.rar
v3 - combines 1.1 & 2.1 w/ further edits
(196.37 KiB) Downloaded 389 times
PANZER CORPS v2-1.rar
v2.1
(135.84 KiB) Downloaded 290 times
Last edited by uncajerf on Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by verstaubtgesicht »

My, my, aren't we sensitive... Is this a part of the new political correctness? Historically accurate, for example, gen. Patton used very "direct" language when addressing his subordinates. I guess great leaders like Patton could not survive, let alone succeed in the brave new world we live in now...

Trigger Warning - inappropriate language and gruesome scenes below!

Favorite Patton quotes:

"We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks"
"W herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!"
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

verstaubtgesicht wrote: Favorite Patton quotes:

"We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks"
"W herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!"
I think his whole 3rd Army speech belongs in that list.

- BNC
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

b52pilot1 wrote:This seems like a petty issue. The briefings are just to add flavor, and they do not have a big impact on gameplay. I think you're taking this too seriously!

Also, I don't think an "inferior" officer is berating you in the briefings...it's a "superior" officer. That's how the military works -- higher-ranking officers give orders to lower-ranking officers, and so on. And you better believe that some of those superior officers do not tolerate any incompetence and will let you know what will happen if you screw up!

Just my two cents.
It's been a week, and although I haven't seen as much feedback as I hoped for, I will begin to respond directly.

I appreciate your input, b52. I don't see it as "petty". For me, it breaks immersion by being unrealistic, as well as inconsistent. The 'inferior vs. superior' issue is part of my point: From one scenario to another, I don't know who is addressing me -- so, again, for me it breaks immersion. I originally assumed that it was something like an adjutant or staff officer -- a junior -- briefing his superior on the situation. If, instead, it's a superior briefing all his junior officers, then that's ok too. In that case, however, it think whoever it is should be identified, so the player knows.

I still don't agree, however -- with certain exceptions as you and others have pointed out, e.g., Patton -- that supposedly professional soldiers would act that way toward each other. Even Patton's quote below by verstabtgesicht re: 'guts' is not applicable, IMO; it's addressed to the enemy, not a junior, peer, or a superior on the same side. At the same time, something like "lead, follow, or get the h3ll out of the way!" is eminently justifiable, in many situations. Telling me I should be 'thrown down into the dirt' where I was found, however, is not only offensive (in context), it's just silly. And breaks immersion.

The example that keeps coming back to me is the relationship between Cpl. Conrad (Hans Christian Blech) and Col. Hessler (Robert Shaw) from the movie "Battle of the Bulge". I'm sure there are plenty of examples either way -- not to mention we're talking about a movie, and not RL, of course. But again, I'm talking about immersion; the feeling most people want from such games is a sense of being there, i.e., suspension of disbelief. Now, perhaps I'm applying elements of RPGs to what is not, essentially, an RPG. But for me, along with the myriad examples of simply poor English, the last straw breaking immersion is being berated & threatened. In context, I feel it's unjustified.

Thanx!
Last edited by uncajerf on Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

verstaubtgesicht wrote:My, my, aren't we sensitive... Is this a part of the new political correctness? Historically accurate, for example, gen. Patton used very "direct" language when addressing his subordinates. I guess great leaders like Patton could not survive, let alone succeed in the brave new world we live in now...

Trigger Warning - inappropriate language and gruesome scenes below!

Favorite Patton quotes:

"We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks"
"W herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!"
Hi, verstaub,

See my reply to b52. I don't feel I'm being 'oversensitive'. For me, it's about immersion and being consistent, as well as respecting the player. I feel like the abuse is uncalled for, given the context -- which is confusing, seeing that I'm not sure who is supposed be addressing me. Although it may feel more that way because I am editing the files in alphabetical order, instead of in order according to campaign, I intend to address this as well.

After I post v3, I am going to go through them all again, separating them into a file for each campaign. Then I will be able to better check that the tone is consistent throughout. At the same time I am going to make sure each has some kind of (consistent) 'background', i.e., identify the setting, the person 'speaking', etc. Some of them already do well with this, while too many others -- as pointed out above by BiteNibbleChomp -- do not. Another immersion-breaker! :roll:

Thanx!
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

b52pilot1 wrote:I just see it differently...I don't think you're getting chewed out for doing better than expected. During the briefings, you're being told that even though you did a great job, you better not fail in this next assignment. The fate of the entire Soviet nation was at stake and failure was not an option. I think we're being too sensitive about something as petty as the 'tone' of a scenario briefing. It is realistic to me, given the time period and the Soviet military culture during that time. We just disagree about this, no worries.

I just want to thank the developers for creating such a good game and continuing to produce outstanding 'Panzer Corps' content...heavily criticizing the scenario briefings seems to overshadow the wonderfully entertaining product that they have produced.
Hi, b52,

I appreciate the game as well. IMO, the briefings in the latest content do not meet the standard set by the rest of the series. While there were still errors in the original(s), they were comparatively minor. Taken altogether now, however -- IMO -- they detract from an otherwise Grade 'A' product. To use your word, for me, the briefings really do 'overshadow' the rest of the game. As a consumer, I think they could have been better; as a writer, I know they could be better. But instead of merely saying so, I'm doing something about it. :wink:

Thanx!
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

Volpone wrote:It is a trivial thing, but I do agree with the OP. In the base campaign, I kicked the allies out of Italy, then threw Operation Overlord back into the Atlantic, forcing Britain and the US to sue for peace. I'm the greatest general ever! Oh, in my next mission, my superior threatened to shoot me in the head if I failed in my next mission. Really?

Other than that, the American briefer in Allied Corps sounds like Batman.
Hi, Volpone,

I have addressed "trivial" in my replies to others, above, so I will only reiterate your point about the "greatest... ever", and then being threatened: That's exactly what I mean when I say a lot of the threats et al. are uncalled for, unrealistic, inconsistent... and immersion-breakers! :?

As for Batman... dunno. :)

Thanx!
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

I would now like to offer my re-writes for "Soviet Corps" briefings.

Other than my issue(s) with the tone and English errors, I have tried to:
  • 1) Identify the 'speaker' while:
  • maintaining a consistent 'personality';
  • maintaining 'professionalism';
  • reacting 'reasonably';
  • 2) Identify the situation with:
  • some background/historical info;
  • opposing forces/commanders;
  • goals/objectives
  • promotions!
I have enclosed certain words above in single quotes, in part because their meaning is subjective, but also to identify where I believe context is important.

I would appreciate feedback, especially re: the Russian and German words I've used; I don't profess to be a linguist -- I relied on Google Translate et al.! -- so I'd like to fix any errors. ;)

Meanwhile I will be transferring the doc into text files, with the intention of allowing players to replace any .pzbrf file(s) they wish.

Thanx!
Attachments
PANZER CORPS vSoviet.rar
Soviet Corps briefing (.pzbrf) files re-written in .docx format; chronological order according to campaign structure.
(74.26 KiB) Downloaded 311 times
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

While remembering the 75th anniversary of Operation Barbarossa, I am posting my .pzbrf files for Soviet Corps.

Anyone who wants to try them is advised to back up their .pzbrf files -- .../SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/PanzerCorps/Data/Briefings -- and unzip the attached file there.

Comments/feedback more than welcome!


uncajerf

P.S. Now working on US Corps.

EDIT 26/06/2016: US Corps added! Now working on the text files.
2nd EDIT " / "/ " : v.1 US uploaded.
Attachments
PANZER CORPS vUS-3.rar
.docx of US Corps re-writes
(145.54 KiB) Downloaded 546 times
Soviet-1.rar
Soviet Corps .pzbrf text files
(57.24 KiB) Downloaded 135 times
PANZER CORPS vSoviet-1.rar
Added a couple of missing files; other minor edits. (.docx)
(91.56 KiB) Downloaded 246 times
Last edited by uncajerf on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Briefing 'Tone' and Errata

Post by uncajerf »

US Corps .pzbrf text files uploaded.

Again, anyone who wants to try them is advised to back up their .pzbrf files -- .../SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/PanzerCorps/DLC/USCorps#/Data/Briefings -- and unzip the attached files there.

Hoping someone will try them out & let me know what they think! ;)


uncajerf

EDIT 27/06/2016: v.1 added w/ minor formatting & other edits, plus a couple of missing files -- sorry about that!
Attachments
USCorps1-1.rar
v.1 - missing files, formatting errors
(34.94 KiB) Downloaded 128 times
USCorps2-1.rar
v.1 - missing files, formatting errors
(34.27 KiB) Downloaded 122 times
USCorps3-1.rar
v.1 - missing files, formatting errors
(44.29 KiB) Downloaded 116 times
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