New to series Question(s)

PC : Turn based WW2 goodness in the mold of Panzer General. This promises to be a true classic!

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:04 pm

1) I have read a few posts and members are stating they have an INF unit but they call it SE INF...what is SE?

2) I am having trouble maintaining my prestige...should I be doing normal replacement (no prestige loss but exp loss) during battle or expert replacement (retains exp but costs prestige)?

3) What is the best way to reduce a defending units entrenchment? I am getting mauled by rugged defense.

4) IF I completely suppress a unit (the number in red equals their strength) does that eliminate their defense from entrenchment and if so how long does it take for that to recover?

goose_2
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:22 am
Location: Winterset, Iowa
Contact:

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by goose_2 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:36 pm

When you are playing a campaign you will receive SE units (Special Equipment) some will be infantry and some will be tank units.
The Special Equipment is because they have 1 additional Att Strength and 1 additional ammo than the same equipment. They also do not count towards your deployable units in game, so they are very valuable.
SE Tanks are the best as in my Grand Campaign 1945 East.
I currently have 7 and they are all Tiger 2's and beasts on the battlefield

#2 is a more complicated question and one where I need more information. What level are you playing at? What Campaign?

#3 arty and strat bombers are your best friend against entrenchement, learn the 3 S's
Surround, Suppress, and Surrender the unit for additional prestige. Key to mastering the game at higher levels.

#4 the fully suppressed unit also had to be at an entrenchment level of 1 or less in order to be fully suppressed and so you can garner that Force Surrender if there is nowhere for it to retreat.

I hope this helps
goose_2
Lutheran Multiplayer Tournament Organizer. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRHQShaOv5PWoer6cP1syLQ

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 pm

#2 I started learning on Colonel in the 1939 vanilla campaign.

I think part of my problem is elite replacement so far. I am using that exclusively and by the time I got to the first west scenario I couldn't really field enough units. Some of that will also be because I am still learning what are the best units and all that.

BTW I was just finishing up your playthrough. Good stuff. I am going to use it to see if it improves my game a bit. I learned a few things reading it.

Reading is what prompted me to ask about SE units.

goose_2
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:22 am
Location: Winterset, Iowa
Contact:

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by goose_2 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:46 pm

Thanks that playthrough is a true labor of love and one that is almost over as I am finishing up SEElow Heights this weekend.

Looking forward to starting a Blind Playthrough of Afrika Korps Italian Challenge on Rommel Level.

If you are doing a Grand Campaign then I did not hardly ever buy Elite Replacements until 1942 as it was too easy to get to the Experience cap if you play right so I would go back and try minimizing losses and maximizing prestige so you can survive the lean years that come 1943 and onward.

16k left in prestige for me at this point
goose_2
Lutheran Multiplayer Tournament Organizer. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRHQShaOv5PWoer6cP1syLQ

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:50 pm

I will probably give a GC a try this weekend. Will keep your play through nearby for notes. I never played PG and only had two nights with PC so still kinda getting my head around it. I have a lot of *duh* and *wish I knew that earlier* moments. I was playing one scenario where I had to land troops on beaches. I headed my transports to what looked like beaches only to learn later I could land anywhere.

braccada
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:58 pm
Location: Austria
Contact:

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by braccada » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:47 pm

Regarding the prestige you might find this guide helpful: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309254297
Follow my Grand Let's Play series: Rommel, Manstein and Guderian
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=53035

TSPC37730
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:43 am
Location: Dallas TX

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by TSPC37730 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:03 am

Regarding an entrenched unit, there's a couple of things you can try to make things easier. Where possible, try to get at least 3 units next to it - even if they don't attack. This will prevent the defending unit from resupplying itself or getting replacements. Any damage you do from bombing or artillery softening attacks therefore won't be "undone" during the AI's turn. Strategic bombers will reduce the entrenchment 1 level per attack. But better still they will strip away ammo & fuel. A unit with no ammo simply cannot hurt you no matter what its level of entrenchment or what its stats are.

In some cases, you can "bait" the defending unit into attacking you. This can often be done by parking a weaker unit - such as a recon car - next to the entrenched unit. If the defending unit is an AT unit or other unit with a spotting range of 1, then back up your unit with an artillery unit out of sight of the attacking unit. When the unit attacks, your artillery unit will get a free shot which will make your eventual attack easier.

Better still, in some cases you can actually bait the defending unit right out of its entrenchment. The AI can be that dumb. As an example, leave a weak unit two hexes away from the targeted defender. If the AI can see the defender, then the target unit may leave its dug in positions to attack the weak unit if the odds seem favorable. Again, backing up the targeted unit with artillery out of spotting range can pay dividends.

Welcome to the game & good luck.

hurly
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:43 am

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by hurly » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:53 pm

rcbricker wrote:I will probably give a GC a try this weekend. Will keep your play through nearby for notes. I never played PG and only had two nights with PC so still kinda getting my head around it. I have a lot of *duh* and *wish I knew that earlier* moments. I was playing one scenario where I had to land troops on beaches. I headed my transports to what looked like beaches only to learn later I could land anywhere.

Hmm reading your posts and questions I would recommend you to gather a little more playing experience before you start with the GC.
Not that it is harder to play (at least not by much) in the early years and for sure you can learn as quickly as in the shorter Campaigns, but you invest a lot of time and it's a pretty sad feeling to realize in 45 (maybe earlier) that you burned way too many Prestige in the learning curve war's and your only Chance to go all the way, is a Start from Scratch. While a second run is still fun, the First Time Charme is somehow lost.

Just my 2 cents.

The original Panzer Korps is a way better option to get your feet wet imho. Downside you will be a bit misguided to Rush and Hurry with All the Scenarios where you can get a Triumph only by finishing early.
Afrika Korps on the other hand is a little bit more tricky in terms of Scenario complexity but you learn to use all Turns and are seldom punished for a Marginal Victory (at least not in terms of Prestige). Also Scenarios are rarely overly big in terms of Units involved.

It you start with One of these (better both) I think you are better prepared for a GC, where the Prestige Harvesting (and wise Spending of it) early on is the Key to Success.

I have a rule of thumb to not spend more than 100 Prestige on Replacements per Unit in the Deployment Phase while using Overstrength only on Arty and very Special Hero Units.
This may be not always the Optimum (especially for someone who seldom takes any losses like braccada) but it works for all Panzer Korps games well enough to have fun and some success.

Others might have a different approach though but that is the real beauty of the Game. Many things work and its always rewarding and different to play again.

Razz1
Panzer Corps Moderator
Panzer Corps Moderator
Posts: 3307
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:49 am
Location: USA

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by Razz1 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:58 pm

Do not use replacement in a game. Best to replace units in between scenarios.

If you must increase in strength during a game, then be conservative.

ErissN6
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:34 pm
Location: France

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by ErissN6 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:44 pm

3) Have 2 or 3 engineer infantry, it helps against strong points..

BloodCat
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:22 am
Location: Russia

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by BloodCat » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:24 pm

hurly wrote:Downside you will be a bit misguided to Rush and Hurry with All the Scenarios where you can get a Triumph only by finishing early.
This. I'm playing GC now, and constantly feel not sure if I have enough turns left thus constantly rushing. That's why I'm at Crete Airborne with just 10k prestige in bank. I got a feeling this'll bite me in the bottom part by year '42... :?

goose_2
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:22 am
Location: Winterset, Iowa
Contact:

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by goose_2 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:12 am

BloodCat wrote:
hurly wrote:Downside you will be a bit misguided to Rush and Hurry with All the Scenarios where you can get a Triumph only by finishing early.
This. I'm playing GC now, and constantly feel not sure if I have enough turns left thus constantly rushing. That's why I'm at Crete Airborne with just 10k prestige in bank. I got a feeling this'll bite me in the bottom part by year '42... :?

Yes it will, but that is ok you can only play blind once ;)
goose_2
Lutheran Multiplayer Tournament Organizer. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRHQShaOv5PWoer6cP1syLQ

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:43 pm

ok so after a depressing weekend of getting my tail feathers burned off, I had a few more questions. One has been answered. Don't do GC till I have a better feel for the game. I find getting marginal victories in GC is easy, but DVs while keeping prestige is outside my abilities for now.

1) I am having trouble determining the best units to purchase for deployment.

2) how does one go through a battle and not use replacements? I find that my units are getting mauled (I believe that some of this is unit vs unit - Calvary are powerful!, against my units anyway lol).

3) What the hell are those little boxy tracked vehicles the Poles have? They are fast and deadly. I have trouble killing them off. Once again not understanding what units are best to deploy I guess.

4) Should I upgrade to use Opels with all my infantry and Arts? Faster yes but also a prestige drain.

5) what about the light tanks Germany starts with? Should I be upgrading those to the PanzerIIIg(sp) (ones you get upgrade option for in Danzig - South?)

6) once I have pounded on an entrenched unit and suppressed it (lets say its entrenchment was a 4), I notice the entrenchment goes down...How long does it take for it to recover its entrenchment value?

tenshin111
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by tenshin111 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:11 pm

rcbricker wrote:ok so after a depressing weekend of getting my tail feathers burned off, I had a few more questions. One has been answered. Don't do GC till I have a better feel for the game. I find getting marginal victories in GC is easy, but DVs while keeping prestige is outside my abilities for now.
If I remember correctly, there was a short Tutorial campaign (like 4 or 5 missions) available that teaches you some basic rules of the game. Have you tried that?

tenshin111
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by tenshin111 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:42 pm

rcbricker wrote: 2) how does one go through a battle and not use replacements? I find that my units are getting mauled (I believe that some of this is unit vs unit - Calvary are powerful!, against my units anyway lol).
Some basic rules:

1. Pay attention to the terrain types.

Generally, there are two types of terrain: "open" and "closed".

So called closed terrain (like forests, cities, hills) gives advantage to infantry units, be it attacking or defending. So, if you move forward with your infantry units never end your move on in open field, unless you're 100% certain that there are no enemies around. Try to end up in a forest hex or a hill which will give you some defensive bonus should an enemy attack.

Open terrain is the domain of tanks and other armored vehicles. Use those tanks to destroy enemies in the open and to provide protection for your other units while moving through open spaces. Conversely, tanks are NOT GOOD when attacking enemy infantry that is sitting in a city, a hill or a forest.

2. Protect your support units.

You want to have some ranged fire support (i.e. artillery) in your core. Those units are super useful for softening entrenched enemies but they are also very vulnerable if left unprotected. So don't do it ;)

3. Think about the air.

The war also rages in the air. You will need some protection from the enemy airforce. Having fighter units makes it easier to deal with enemy planes but they are also quite costly. A cheaper alternative is to invest in AA guns but you will have to move them with your land units to provide effective cover.

4. Recon.

Knowing what lies ahead can save you from running into an ambush. It's a really good idea to have at least one scouting unit (a recon car for example) and use it move ahead, inspect and move back (it has the unique ability to split the move in two phases).

5. Don't attack entrenched enemies without softening their defenses first. Also, if they have artillery support you should think how to disable it or at least reduce it's effectiveness. Sometimes it is easier to bypass a heavily defended position and attack from the rear. Remember that you can also use your own artillery to shoot (and suppress) enemy arty.

These are just some basic rules that come to my head. There's obviously more to it, especially as war (and time) moves on since you get access to a bigger variety of units.

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:44 pm

Yeah I played them. I got DVs on them. I just learned some things watching Braccada's Sealion Let's Play Video. I think my major problem is not taking my time. He did something that made me face palm. He looked at an enemy units Movement to determine where to put his unit. Not necessarily something I don't do, but I have not looked up the terrain modifiers yet. I also didn't know about using bombardment to lower a units ammo as well as their entrenchment and reinforcements.

So I will keep asking questions, but tonight I will be playing a slower game. I mean hell it is turn based so not like I am achieving anything moving my units as fast as possible. Well I am achieving getting my a$$ kicked.

tenshin111
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by tenshin111 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:51 pm

rcbricker wrote:Yeah I played them. I got DVs on them. I just learned some things watching Braccada's Sealion Let's Play Video. I think my major problem is not taking my time. He did something that made me face palm. He looked at an enemy units Movement to determine where to put his unit. Not necessarily something I don't do, but I have not looked up the terrain modifiers yet. I also didn't know about using bombardment to lower a units ammo as well as their entrenchment and reinforcements.

So I will keep asking questions, but tonight I will be playing a slower game. I mean hell it is turn based so not like I am achieving anything moving my units as fast as possible. Well I am achieving getting my a$$ kicked.
Yes, this game is like a game of chess, only that you have quite a big board (with different field types) a huge variety of pieces. Take your time and plan carefully.

Also, defense is (usually) easier. Try to use this to your advantage and lure the enemy to attack your bait-unit only to be surprised with a defensive artillery fire and more of your units nearby. Once you learn the limitation of AI in this game (and it is pretty dumb to be honest) you will be moving through scenarios without losing any of the core units...most of the time at least ;)

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:54 pm

tenshin111 wrote:Some basic rules:

1. Pay attention to the terrain types.
Right now I think this is my biggest oversight. either that or not checking how an enemy will move or why it attacks.
tenshin111 wrote:2. Protect your support units.
learned this the hard way. Again, still has something to do with not doing my homework on enemy units (and better recon). I sometimes find that I was careful enough based on the units I see, but need to use my recon and planes to get a better feel for the areas further out.
tenshin111 wrote:3. Think about the air.
I have been using two Bf109s in my GC. I find AA to be slow and vulnerable. I guess practice makes perfect.
tenshin111 wrote:4. Recon.
I get this concept, but not how it splits its movements. I find that there are times when I though the little bugger would be able to move again, but he cant. I think this is due to a lack of understanding how it splits its movements and the cost of movement across various terrain. Gonna have to read up on terrain modifiers.
tenshin111 wrote:5. Don't attack entrenched enemies without softening their defenses first. Also, if they have artillery support you should think how to disable it or at least reduce it's effectiveness. Sometimes it is easier to bypass a heavily defended position and attack from the rear. Remember that you can also use your own artillery to shoot (and suppress) enemy arty.
Yeah learned this the hard way. I am still too aggressive. I generally end up moving my units into postion and winning, but not with out losses. Braccada's Sealion Let's Play video stated you can affect ammo with bombardment AND I never though of pounding a unit WHILE I was moving into position to keep them from entrenching. have to try that.

rcbricker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by rcbricker » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:57 pm

tenshin111 wrote: Yes, this game is like a game of chess, only that you have quite a big board (with different field types) a huge variety of pieces. Take your time and plan carefully.

Also, defense is (usually) easier. Try to use this to your advantage and lure the enemy to attack your bait-unit only to be surprised with a defensive artillery fire and more of your units nearby. Once you learn the limitation of AI in this game (and it is pretty dumb to be honest) you will be moving through scenarios without losing any of the core units...most of the time at least ;)
Yeah I figure my losses are due to silly mistakes on my part. Lack of knowledge of the deeper mechanics and even intel in the game itself. I usually don't worry too much about the AI. I just gotta get to the point where I understand why it does something then I can predict its actions. Much like chess, being able to force your opponent to take an action or knowing what action they will take is core to winning consistently.

goose_2
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:22 am
Location: Winterset, Iowa
Contact:

Re: New to series Question(s)

Post by goose_2 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:02 pm

This is an interesting thread and very helpful for new players.

When planning to do a Grand Campaign you need to plan West different from how you are going to do the East.

West since you will have most of your prestige stolen and many of your units taken away with I think the first scenario in the West, I still have not played it but at least know that much, you want to build up an elite core force of some 13 to 17 units, I am unsure of the number as again I have not played. So reserving prestige in the early Campaign when you know you are going West is pointless. Once you start West however it becomes very tight very quickly apparently.

East is a completely different animal.
The first 2 years buy very few elite replacements even between scenarios as they will quickly max out on the amount of experience they can earn making elite replacements costly and unnecessary. Along with that diversify your army and build a strong vast army that has much experience and at least 1 hero. So once your unit gains near the max experience or they accumulate at least 1 hero with some experience use fresh green units. You will need every experienced unit you can muster in the East grinder.
Overstrength only Artillery and planes as they take fewer losses than your ground troops. (This is not a hard and fast rule as I did occasionally boost them by 1 but it helps as you will need more prestige than you can imagine when you get to 43 and onwards.)
Sell off any SE infantry you get.
SE units do not count against your soft cap so you want to be using the big dog tanks as much as possible.
Free units:
The equipment you can capture is usually pretty awesome.
I earned a +1 Movement on my Somua and turned it into a BA KingTiger much later in the war and because it already had 3 stars experience it is awesome.
My Char's both eneded up with +1 inititive hero's.
The point is that you can use this free equipment to build up experience and see if you get a decent hero so that you can upgrade it later to something awesome.
Build up a wide range of infantry and do not use costly transports on anything but Pioniere's and Grenadier's, otherwise make them walk as it keeps your costs down, and you will need them later for the various city battles you will be engaged in. Gerbisjager's are amazing in my opinion.
Build up a lot, I mean a lot of artillery. Once they get a decent hero or reach max experience use a fresh green one.
Sell off any +1 Spotting hero's you may get and covet every attack bonus hero , range hero, and movement hero you can get on those bad boys.
I liked to have at least 2 or 3 AA's just to help round out my air defense.
Recon's were something I could not keep alive, but I will try better next time, because vision is huge.
AT is something you want to build up experience in if you can so you can upgrade them into the unbelievably strong JagdPanther; JagdTiger or even the Elephant when they come out.
Don't always upgrade your equipment when you can.
Your Pz1's are fine for 1939.
Pz2's can be switched to some really nice Flammpanzers for city fighting, just protect them from hard attacks.
And some you want to save and utilize when you can upgrade them to really useful tanks like Tiger's and KingTiger's , The Kv-1B's and KV-1C's are great tanks for a long period of time, especially when they start building experience.

I hope this helps.
I got frustrated last night seeing my precious baby's getting chewed up but I have a better strategy for my 2nd time and will give it a go maybe this weekend, or maybe even Thursday night.

I am so eager to finish this Grand of all Campaigns.
goose_2
Lutheran Multiplayer Tournament Organizer. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRHQShaOv5PWoer6cP1syLQ

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps”