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Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:26 pm
by Psyx
best75 wrote: How can we be watching these movies morally?
Because we are adults and can differentiate between a piece of entertainment and a massacre? Because we are not playing the game while fantasising about how great the SS were? Or because an intelligent person knows that seeing a story or piece of history is about seeing it from all sides, rather than pretending that one side of anything is righteous and grand,while the other is evil,morally reprehensible and we should stick our heads in the sands about it?

I am personally far more disturbed by the OP's assertion that them playing an allied general would be ok, whereas playing a German one is morally bankrupt and despicable.

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:32 pm
by Musketeer
"Das Boot" is perfect example of pretty real movie! Everybody, there is Extended Edition 3-4 h +/-! ;)

Actually I come to conclusion, that I would finish come campaigns in PC, because I shall play it for tactics/strategy not SS feel, I would play it even if it was about war between Aliens and Predators. :idea:

Allies are not automatically all good - definitely!

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:45 am
by bebro
Just noticed this. Well the simplest thing to look at it is (like others said): it's a game.

A game is a game is a game is a game. That means: it's not reality. War in a computer game (like in movies or books) is just a *depiction* of war.

People may debate how they like various depictions, but the real good news here is that nobody gets hurt or killed. It's all just data shuffled around. Little kids may have trouble to make a difference between reality and depiction of reality, but from a certain age people just have to able to make that difference. If they are unable to do that then something went wrong in their education.

Morality is something for interactions between human beings, not between man and machine. That is unless we're getting scifi-style sentient machines....which is not around the corner...

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:53 am
by Musketeer
AD AI - actually, there is:

AI was better in some planes war simulations than human + there is already assocication supporting idea "AI not gone evil"!

AD "just data": I can hardly chew on it, because Eichman spoke that language too... Just statistics!

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:02 pm
by bebro
Musketeer wrote:
AD "just data": I can hardly chew on it, because Eichman spoke that language too... Just statistics!
This is not only a false equivalence, I also find that comment outright offensive. There were obviously real human beings behind Eichmann's "data". There are no real human beings affected in a computer game, other than maybe the players ego.

I have no interest to continue on that level.

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:27 pm
by Musketeer
So killing anything in games is OK, but in reality IT IS NOT?

False equivalence it is not because: human mind still works in basic steps the same when you sign off some Nazi extermination letter as Eichmann or when you move your army on display - just statistics! It is just that in games you can do just about anything without disgusting consequences...

Let me ask you something, do you hunt, slay and butcher your own meat? If not, it is just the same - using something for own gain/fun/education without personal disgusting consequences.

Will it disgust you to play game about Dr. Mengeles job? I bet yes, yet you (and everybody here me included!) replay battles of Stalin, Hitler and other madmans (Mao anyone?) who killed 100 000x more people...

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:55 pm
by goose_2
Do you guys smell that...yep, yep that is what I think it is

It definitely smells like...

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:28 pm
by hs1611
I wonder why, since you feel it is wrong, you still play this game?

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:25 pm
by Musketeer
Because it is in my DNA to be obsessed with war and tactics and planning of strategy with other man over campfire... We fought for resources with other people, nature and with animals, so it is part of our lives, it is what we are now, the same as our inner dark side, without which we are incomplete. Anyway, AI in PC is not challenging at all :(.

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:08 pm
by goose_2
Try on Manstein and see if you do not find it challenging, yes you can still fool it, but it is brutal at this level

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:08 pm
by goose_2
Try on Manstein and see if you do not find it challenging, yes you can still fool it, but it is brutal at this level

Re: Big discussion about strategy/tactics gaming morality

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:23 pm
by Musketeer
Hmmmmmmmm - will try Poland or something! Sound like nice challenge...