Stalingrad.

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stormbringer3
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Stalingrad.

Post by stormbringer3 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:52 pm

After a few restarts I'm now in 1942. Since this is my first time through I'd like to play the easier of Escape from Stalingrad or Stalingrad Ruins.
Thanks for any opinions.

turn4441
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by turn4441 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 pm

It's been a while, but I thought the 'Escape' scenario to be easier as you face about 50% more enemies in the 'Ruins'. The fact that you get 50 prestige/turn in the Ruins and 0/turn in Escape is a good indicator of which you can expect to be more difficult. However, I also thought that Tatsinskaya was harder than Kotelnikovo as you will again face more enemy units in Tasinskaya (although only about 15 more instead of 40 or so for Escape vs. Ruins) and the per turn prestige is 150 vs. 0 which, again, tends to let you know which is harder. It kind of comes down to whether you want to play the easier scenario now or later. One final consideration is that the Escape/Tatsinskaya route has the potential to give you more prestige as you would get 7000 vs. 5000 for DVs in both scenarios and can receive 150/turn for 22 turns vs. 50/turn for 24 on the other route. Of course that's only helpful if you don't have to spend that much more to refit your units.

hurly
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by hurly » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:53 pm

It's just a Branch of 2 Scenarios. So Why Not Play both and make the Big Cash, Unit and Hero Check afterwards ?
Especially when it's a First Time Try.

Personally I Think Tatsinskaya is the hardest Scenario of the 4, while Ruins is the most boring One. I just can Take any Fun out of playing These City Infight Stuff.

Escape is Kind of exciting as the Evacuation is a nice different Task.

So I would definitely Play them all and See which Core is the better One After all is said and done.

And the same procedure with the upcoming Branches in 43,44 and 45

huckc
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by huckc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:47 pm

I've never played Escape but I found Ruins to be the least interesting of the trifecta. Didn't have the same gravitas as the first two.

captainjack
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by captainjack » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:27 pm

I prefer Escape from Stalingrad over Ruins - two intense city fights in a row is enough for me and Escape from Stalingrad has some interesting challenges. It always feels like you are under pressure to move more quickly than you'd like, so you have to balance getting there quickly in small numbers and getting there in strength a bit later. You also have to think about managing the risks of support units getting caught in transports and of the risks to your airforce of relying on a remote airbase that's under pressure.

I agree Tatstinskaya is tough. No matter how I plan it, what difficulty and what objectives I set myself, something somewhere either goes horribly wrong or threatens to do so. It's got good replay value because I'm sure I can do better next time.

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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by proline » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:52 pm

Stalingrad Ruins is for people who didn't get enough of Stalingrad during Stalingrad Docks and Storming Stalingrad. If you like things to be long, painful, and boring, it is the better option for you. There's literally nothing new or original in that scenario, you just chill out in Stalingrad for another however many turns killing endless tanks and SMG Infantry. Otherwise, go with Escape from Stalingrad.

ycloon
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by ycloon » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:59 am

I've played through branches.

Tatsinkaya is more challenging than Kotelnikovo not simply because of the greater number of Soviet units, but also because of the higher quality of Soviet units. If memory serves, you face numerous 3-star units (often at overstrength) in Tatsinkaya; you face at most 2-star units in Kotelnikovo. The difference in one level of experience is quite significant considering that your most experienced units have at most 4 stars. The 3-star 85mm AA/AT guns in Tatsinkaya are a real pain. To provide a sense of the differences in difficulty, my total strength losses in Kotelnikovo and Tatsinkaya were respectively, 28 and 90. (Note that these are from a second playthrough of each scenario; while not recorded, the losses from the blind playthrough were probably higher in both cases).

While the gross prestige earnings from the Escape/Tatsinskaya route are higher, the net earnings may be lower because of the higher battle damage and hence repair cost. This was the case for me. My net prestige earning (I play with softcap off) from the Ruins/Kotelnikovo route is 6494 pp; my net prestige earning from the Escape/Tatsinkaya route is 3307 (yes, I built a spreadsheet for this).

In the end, I went with the corps that took the Ruins/Kotelnikovo path. I echo hurly's recommendation to try both paths and keep the one that gives you the best results. Ruins is a bit of a slough after Storming Stalingrad and Stalingrad Docks, but it does have a few heart pounding moments. Escape is a (welcomed) change from the claustrophobia of urban fighting. Tatsinkaya is gut wrenching almost from the get go while Kotelnikovo is relatively easier. The auxiliary Tigers in both scenarios are green so you'll have to use them carefully.

F0xtR0t
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by F0xtR0t » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:37 pm

In Panzer Corps, GC42, Escape from Stalingrad, I have gotten my Hungarians to exit hexes, but they don't go away. Is there something else I must do to have them exit?

hugh2711
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:06 pm

No, as long as they get to the right marked hexes.

loganfive
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by loganfive » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:11 pm

turn4441 wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:33 pm
It's been a while, but I thought the 'Escape' scenario to be easier as you face about 50% more enemies in the 'Ruins'. The fact that you get 50 prestige/turn in the Ruins and 0/turn in Escape is a good indicator of which you can expect to be more difficult. However, I also thought that Tatsinskaya was harder than Kotelnikovo as you will again face more enemy units in Tasinskaya (although only about 15 more instead of 40 or so for Escape vs. Ruins) and the per turn prestige is 150 vs. 0 which, again, tends to let you know which is harder. It kind of comes down to whether you want to play the easier scenario now or later. One final consideration is that the Escape/Tatsinskaya route has the potential to give you more prestige as you would get 7000 vs. 5000 for DVs in both scenarios and can receive 150/turn for 22 turns vs. 50/turn for 24 on the other route. Of course that's only helpful if you don't have to spend that much more to refit your units.
Ruins is a huge prestige point windfall if you stay under the cap and capture all of the 85 or so non-victory flags. That's 4250 points in addition to the 300 victory hex points, the 1200 turn bonus points and the 3000 victory bonus points. It's also an infantry battle where your expensive tank, artillery and air units should not take much in the way of damage.

Tatsinkaya may offer a bigger turn bonus but there are very few non-victory flags to capture and your tank units take a huge beating. There are opportunities to score some forced surrender points though.

captainjack
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by captainjack » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:06 pm

I usually head for escape and Tatsinskaya after two big city scenarios, so can't comment on Ruins, though I really should make an effort next time round.

Escape isn't too difficult if you can keep the Hungarians alive past the first two or three turns, though there is scope for embarrassment if you forget the main purpose of your misson. However, Tatsinskaya is tough because there are a lot of 3* units that may well be more powerful than your own (notably the KV1C and T34/43), and because it keeps looking like you've done all the hard work, only to find that there's yet another counter attack on its way. DV is possible but can be expensive if you take chances late on, and reform units won't give you the expeience back.

loganfive
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by loganfive » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:58 am

Tatsinskaya is winnable. I won a DV with 7 turns to spare the one and only time I played it. Basically, I overstrengthed all my tank units to the max, then moved forward quickly on the first turn in order to rescue as many of the Romanian aux units as possible. If I remember correctly the Soviet assault comes in two waves. It gets pretty hairy, but it's survivable if you put enough artillery behind your tank and AT units. There is also a lot of frozen ground to cover in order to get to your victory hexes, with lots of Soviet units in the way. It's not easy.

Elkarlo
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by Elkarlo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:23 am

Tank destroyers are pretty much unless on the attacking scenarios. Not many enemy, and TDs are bad at killing infantry. I'd rather have all my tanks, and use them to really hurt infantry in the open. Also, use as many slots as possibly for infantry and artillery

loganfive
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by loganfive » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:07 pm

Elkarlo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:23 am
Tank destroyers are pretty much unless on the attacking scenarios. Not many enemy, and TDs are bad at killing infantry. I'd rather have all my tanks, and use them to really hurt infantry in the open. Also, use as many slots as possibly for infantry and artillery
All 3 Stalingrad city scenarios have Soviet Tank units you need to destroy, often in clear terrain.

On my current campaign at Field Marshall, I used two StuG IIIF/8 units instead of tanks, for soft cap reasons. There are a lot of prestige points available in each of these scenarios if you bring enough experienced infantry and artillery to take all the minor objectives and stay under the cap. But you really need to be careful where you park your tank destroyer units, because the Soviet infantry will go after them with a vengeance if you leave them in a city hex.

Elkarlo
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by Elkarlo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm

True but your normal core of tanks should be enough to deal with the limited Soviet armor. The tons of infantry I deployed kept me under the soft cap. TD don't hit infantry very hard. Armor mauls them out in the open. I liked to park my tanks and block the Soviet infantry from directly getting into the fight with my main forces in the north

loganfive
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by loganfive » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:24 pm

Elkarlo wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:34 pm
True but your normal core of tanks should be enough to deal with the limited Soviet armor. The tons of infantry I deployed kept me under the soft cap. TD don't hit infantry very hard. Armor mauls them out in the open. I liked to park my tanks and block the Soviet infantry from directly getting into the fight with my main forces in the north
Well there's always more than one way of doing things in this game.

I deployed 11 infantry and 11 artillery units, and overstrengthed my infantry to the max. With 3 fighters (you basically have to upgrade one of them to an FW190A at Stalingrad Docks for fuel reasons), 2 Wuhframen and 5 non-SE tank units I was inching above the cap.

The benefit of using TDs is that they are inexpensive and very effective against hard targets. And they can plug up holes in your lines as long as you have sufficient artillery behind them.

Elkarlo
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by Elkarlo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:56 am

No doubt, esp since most of you play on harder settings, I'm on Col only.
I think in urban scenarios, with limited usage of armor forces,I'd chose a tank over a TD to take to Stalingrad.
That said, I do like the Stug, it's cheap and does it's job well.
The Elefant is great too. But if the AI was smart, it could keep it out of action easily. Every turn attack it with 3 infantry units. My Elfant inflicts like 1-3 damage on the infantry for 01 it takes. Which for something that wrecks tanks, that's a good trade. Basically keep it out of ammo by hitting it with infantry, since it only has 5 ammo

loganfive
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by loganfive » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:05 pm

The difference between Colonel and Field Marshall is that on Field Marshall you get only 50% of the experience you would normally get. It's something of a challenge getting units up to four stars, and part of my reasoning here is that I am going to need experienced AT units for the tank battles of 1943.

Otherwise the game play is more or less the same on Field Marshall as it is on Colonel. The extra prestige for the AI, and AI Level 2 vs AI Level 1, really make very little difference.

Rommel (50% prestige, 100% experience) is probably easier than Field Marshall for GC East and GC West.

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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by goose_2 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm

I am curious how I will handle Stalingrad on my new Super Hard playthrough:
Here is what I am calling it: Double Rommel/Double Field Marshall/ Progressively Manstein difficulty

Here are the parameters:
Field Marshall settings with tweaked settings
25% prestige earned
25% experience earned
(Throughout Campaign)
Here is where it gets progressively difficult
1939 enemy has 1 extra strength point
1940 enemy has 2 extra strength points
1941 enemy has 3 extra strength points
1942 enemy has 4 extra strength points
1943 enemy has 5 extra strength points
1944 enemy has 5 extra strength points and I have -1 strength points
1945 enemy has 5 extra strength points and I have -2 strength points.

I am currently in 1941 and have been able to still earn Decisive Victory's in 41 all except 1 in 39 (Modlin) and 40 (Albert Canal)
The only one I fear may be too difficult to earn Decisive Victory on in 41 is Streets of Moscow.
But all my ground units, minus artillery has only been able to build up 2 stars of experience.

I am hoping by the time I get to Stalingrad I have most infantry and some tanks at 3 Stars experience.
Unsure if I will be able to get up to 4 stars, and do not think 5 stars will be attainable for anything except artillery and Strat Bombers.
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Re: Stalingrad.

Post by captainjack » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:04 pm

I had a go at Ruins to see how I got on. I tried the Mushroom approach where you drive hard for the northernmost airfield and then come back down.

It was surprisingly easy until I decided that I could easily get the last two victory hexes. I don't know if I triggered a counter attack or if I was just in the wrong place at the time it triggered, but the last few turns were a mix of controlled withdrawal in some areas and desperate (and ultimately successful) attempts to extract a couple of badly damaged 4* units. Surprisingly it didn't feel like a claustraphobic grind nlike the previous two Stalingrads but more of an exercise in logistics and controlled aggression to clear hexes quickly without exposing units and while managing ammo and fuel to minimise risks from swarms of SMG infantry or T34s just out of spotting range (it's best to assume they are there).

The follow up Kotelnikovo (?) wasn't too bad, apart from the impact of snow on fuel use and a dumb mistake where a lone infantry got within spotting range of a reserve group of tanks.

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