Status Check for GC

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hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:38 pm

I would still get rid of the SE infantry and convert it to an SE tank. Once the softcap kicks in it will matter.
I agree with captain jack; convert the 15cm to 17cm. I would not bother with 15cm at all and go straight from 10.5 to 17cm.
I would convert your captured 10.5 artilliary to a wurfrahmen, since it is already experienced it will get a hero quickly (range is best).
I think you need more artilliary anyway. I would usually end up with three wurfrahmen. I would say you want enough towed artilliary to make sure you end up with at least one range + 1 towed 17cm, and at least one range +1 mobile arty (sturm or sig 38), there are a few scenarios in the later gc's where you really need that range as well as the power. hopefully you will capture a couple of su122's later on.
I find the flamm is most usefull when it has its own dedicated wurfrahmen, there are later scenarios where there are alot of partisans behind the lines and the easiest way to take them (some at strength 15!) out LOSSLESSLY is the wurf/flamm combination. No other combo can cover so much ground AND take out the high numbers of soft targets AT high strength without losses. They (lamms) are too vulnerable to go in the front lines later on.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:10 pm

Thanks for the info and input. :)

I like my SE grenadiers. +1 Move and +1 Def. When the '43 versions comes along they will be ready for their 3rd hero. Every battle needs at least one grenadier anyway. I wish there was an SE Wurf. hehehe I am still at 100% soft cap with a plethora of hanomags, along with the barbarian horde that is already under my command. It will come screeching to a halt when the big ticket units get their upgrade chance, but I am happy for now. If I have to strip hanomags away and put troop on foot when the time comes, I will.

It is nice to have that single 150 for the reasons I stated earlier. I keep a pair of 105s and 2-3 170s as well as my self-propelled units. My 150 usually stays in play until getting converted to a railgun, or a hero comes up that demands another placement.

The flamm is getting a personal Wurf next battle. :) I was thinking the same thing. Too much fun.

Picked up a multi-hero PZII, and a 2atk/3init mountain troop.

Triggered two planned ambushes that went well, and two multi-tank reactions that were not and didn't. A 9-strength 8Rad was spotted by a plane. Two BT-6s and a T34 pushed it into a suppressed infantry unit, who pushed it into a suppressed A/T unit. They can still cap empty hexes as a 1. An SE Pz got suppressed by a plane and tag-teamed by a pair of tanks for a loss of 5. Both of the unplanned actions led to the immediate loss of all attacking soviet units the next turn. I traded 8 points of 8Rad for a hole 10-12 hexes wide in the enemy front.

I have read AARs that show folks agonizing over every lost strength point on each unit as if it were a personal insult or failure. I get that on Manstein or double-whammy-uber-feldmarshal level. Those players would look at the bloodied, rag-tag band that drags itself into my decisive victories, and want to start over. :D If you're higher than an 8, you haven't seen any action. LOL I am on General with the enemy scaled to 122% instead of 150%. This is my virgin run down this pike, that I have waited a long time to take. :) Put off working on my mod to really immerse myself in this puppy. The next run will certainly be more disciplined, from previous knowledge if nothing else.

hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:47 pm

If you look at this very old thread and scroll down you will see someone has done bar graphs of the different sizes of arty at different strengths damage against different types of targets. It is a real eye opener, well worth looking at before deciding on arty strategy.
viewtopic.php?f=121&t=26663#p245092

I admit it, I am one of those people who hate losing a single strength point :-)

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:46 pm

Oh. I have read the threads and seen the data and agree with it as far as it goes. It is the Half-track over Prime Mover for the weight of fire that keeps a single 150 in my OOB. Being able to move it up supported to forward-firing position make sup for the lost numbers. The half track is more survivable and has organic firepower. They do well and turn into railguns most times. :) But I may bow to the logic in this particular instance, because...


First turn of Zhitomir. First artillery volley. 17cm earns +1 range. :) boo yaah. You know why? Because I just bought a brand-new Wurf. The only purchase this battle, and it could have waited.

The 150 will become a 170 next battle. The ranged 170 is set to become either a railgun or just stay on the path to 210mm.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by captainjack » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:24 am

The 70% RoF of the 210mm and 5 ammo means it isn't quite such an impovement as it looks over the 170mm. But then I haven't played 44East for a while, and the need to damage heavy soviet tanks might change my views very quickly.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:47 am

I prefer railguns or 170s myself for late-war heavy hate. A 210 with a range hero CAN blap a non-entrenched target from a reload hex removed from the front. If I am going to try and make more surrenders, I need red target numbers. So I will see which caliber suppresses late-war soviet armor the best.

Railgun with the range hero is my all-time favorite late-war artillery. "Better to nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

This game needs an ammo hero soooo badly... +1 +2 +3 ammo heroes would rock.

hugh2711
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by hugh2711 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:31 pm

Interesting. When have used railguns I have always been underimpressed with thier real world performance and usefullness in the later GC's.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:41 pm

Going into Zhurivka with well over 26K prestige. 58 +4 Units with 30 to deploy. Cannot think of anything else to buy other than artillery and A/T, and that is more for padding.

The lessons continue. Lost my range hero to my own stupidity. Hit "end turn" button only halfway through first turn, so re-did it. The gods of war repaid me by giving me nothing until almost the end of the battle. +1 Atk Sturmpanzer and +1 Atk Gebir. A Fallschirm got a +1 Move last battle, which I really like.

Learning that following the briefing saves lives and makes better prestige. I stayed on my side of the river until I found a stealthy jump point near the actual VLs. It only took one recon flight to see that High Command wasn't kidding about Kiev. :) Came out with nothing lower than a 6, and lots of 8-10s. Over-strength units mostly kept theirs. I know that last makes some of you just wince, but things are improving. :D Only had one unit get jumped down to a 3, and it a PzJagar so was cheap to bring back to battery.

Going to toe the straight and narrow line in Zhurivka. I see my path through the VLs, and shall not stay into yonder trigger zones. As an editor monger and novice modder, I am beginning to smell what the briefings are telling me. I am thinking there are turn limit triggers as well for whatever awaits me. I have a diagonal course and two enemy corners to pinch me. Hoping Kiev stays quiet, and whatever may comes out of the NE is not too ridiculous.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:49 pm

hugh2711 wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:31 pm
Interesting. When have used railguns I have always been underimpressed with thier real world performance and usefullness in the later GC's.
I have never run a GC, but anticipate defensive/next-turn use of my railguns. Properly positioned, they can react to more attacks effectively. A railgun with a range hero covers a lot of hexes. I never use them against dug in targets unless it is part of a complete demolition attack. They vaporize moving/un-entrenched targets, and suppress entrenched. Unless it is a fort. Fort performance throws off perception of usefulness. They wallop forts, so folks expect that against other targets. I use them as counter-battery snipers. Only buy one for each range hero, up to a max of two.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:13 pm

Four days with a down computer seems much longer. "At last my arm is complete again!"

Going to look hard at where I am in the GC, and where I have been, after this little enforced hiatus. Slowing down and staying tightly grouped is working well. Ignoring secondary objectives until the decisive is ASSURED is keeping me from throwing people away in a last mad dash to the last VL. My last battle only took 11 turns for a decisive, but I threw away secondaries and kept most of the force at 8-10. There is a balance that I must achieve.

A few thoughts on hero farming. I believe that I have found my problem and quandary. My heroes started popping after units had a lot of stars, and it was getting close to Barbarossa. As someone who always kept just enough units in core to begin with, throwing away experience is anathema to me. Before this GC, I had never disbanded a unit that I can recall, in either PzG or PzC. :) I take what I git and I don't throw a fit. I truly appreciate the experienced counsel that has been given to me by you fine people, and I am becoming increasingly certain the '44 section will reinforce that advice. However, the main event was around the corner and I didn't want green units. So I have a plethora of +1 Def instead of the Atk that has been advised by many if not most. I am at General, and have played this game, if not these scenarios, for a very long time. It may get hurty at times, but I think I can do it with what I have.

The second way I finally figured out is by simply re-doing any turn that pops a bad hero. Again, it occurred to me as a logical alternative, but not a moral one. :) Can't do it. I have, and will continue to re-do turns occasionally. But only due to my own stupidity, not for better gain. If I hit the "end turn" button before moving all my units, that's a re-do. I am 56, and the 80's were very good to me, so give me a break when I gel out. hehehe

Onward through to the last two battles of the '41 campaign... Will let you all know how things are going once I get my boys sorted.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by TSPC37730 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:26 pm

If you haven't made it to Vyazma yet, I think that you may find it challenging. Good luck!

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:14 am

I mis-stated earlier. I am at Zolotonosha. Four battles to go.


I am at my previous save, post-purchase and deployed, but not yet started. It gives me a chance to review and make sure I am good to go before taking off into the unknown. Vyazama awaits next battle. Zhurivka was a cakewalk.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:10 pm

Well, Zolotonosha is in the bag. An attack on my Western Kiev screen on turn 4 or so broke my concentration. I had a four-unit line screen out just in case, and lucky I did. Fallshirm, PanzerJagd, and two aux A/T guns. They took the initial licks and fell back into a classic horseshoe. The only thing that saved that situation from becoming a mess was a Wurfrahmen at the rear of my advance that had stopped to reload. He slotted in and saved the day. Had to do nothing but reload him every turn for three turns straight. Renaming him Gandalf. "Thou Shall Not Pass!" :D The front-line units still took hits from the KV-2 and Mtn and other nasty things, but they held until air power could be called in.

This succeeded in pissing me off. I had purposely NOT encroached on the Kiev area, so I could be a good little briefing-follower. It was like a shiver ran across my entire force, and they kicked into gear. Berserker Mode... activated. The "Kiev Horseshoe" got Luftwaffe support within one turn, and that attack got ground down over 3-4 turns. Turn 9 found me in possession of everything but a weak light tank at the bottom of the map that I was batting around like a mouse for fun, and Kiev.

I left a VL empty but surrounded, and turned the rest 160 degrees and ran back to teach Kiev the penalty for impertinence. The ancient Romans had nothing on me when it comes to wrath. Only the leading section got in on the action along with the resurgent "Horseshoe" force and the Luftwaffe's efforts. Turn 13 vaporized the final enemy Bridging Engineer, and I took the bottom VL and the last secondary.

Turn 9 also found me in possession of a Stuka with a +3 Attack hero. Earned it whacking the Kiev AA gun when it was switched to A/T mode. :) That Kiev KV was not happy to see that.

Going into Vyazma with over 31K prestige, and only three panzers with significant damage. The tip of the spear gets blunted in attack. The went farthest, fastest, and reached the bottom SE corner city hex by turn 8. The rest of the force stayed at 10s mostly, with a few 8s and 9s. EDIT - Other than on-field replacements, of which there were some.

The Vyazma briefing is so much propaganda. I am about to get rained on, arent I? I am going to have to slog through mud with little chance for air support... and dug-in enemy. Glad I have my Hanomags now. Oh.... BTW... still at 100% soft cap with all my cool toys. I am not a complete-outfitter, so when Tigers come, they aren't a blanket buy. JgdPzIV/L70 will settle their hash just fine for a while.

It gets harder now... I can feel a disturbance in The Force...

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 pm

Vyazma was harsh, as expected, but still a decisive. My first last-turn decisive. The weather was beastly. The virgin run through the grand campaign is going to cost my boys dearly. :) The KV-2/AA/Art combo is just a hard nut to crack, especially supported by the troop swarm.

I suppose I am obligated to grind my boys into the Streets of Moscow, since I earned the "honor". :D Have saves for both, pre-buy. Looks like a brutal troop-sponge. Infantry and artillery, and hoping for just enough good weather for the Luftwaffe to turn the battle. The "streets" will probably have a rush-hour jam of T-34s. If there was a way to earn an SE railgun earlier I would have done whatever it takes to do it. I don't usually do 21cm, but this looks like an omen that they may have their uses. I need something with punch, and my A/T options are still limited. The Wurfs don't do squat to armor. Looking like not even hoping for a decisive would be the prudent course on this "bonus" battle. :D

I did a farm move last battle. A Sturmpanzer got a +2 Defense hero on the third action of a turn and I went right back to the autosave. :) Of course the hero gods punished me by giving me no more.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by captainjack » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:27 am

The key in Stalingrad is to use lots of infantry - bring out your spotting heroe ones - and back them with lots of artillery to porvide defensive fire. Bring enough tanks to keep the streets clear.

I find wurf's very limited defensively due to 4 ammo, which is not enough when you can get attacked 5 or 6 times in a turn. You want stugs, move hero 105s and nebelwerfers and captured Su122 to back up the infantry (and anything else) and keep it topped up if it's a defensive gun (4 ammo means the 5th attack by the conscripts, SMG infantry or the flame T34 will be bad and the next one disastrous).

You will also want some 170s 150s and maybe some of your 105s to soften up the targets for when you can't lure them out of their entrenched positions. The Wurf und Flamm combo will then clear a lot of space if you can keep them from counter attacks.

Having said that, if you can get a DV in mud in Vyazma and remain positive, you shoudl probably be giving us advice! Good luck.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:42 am

hehe that reminds me of a saying by old Rhodesian stone mason I knew... "You don't want me mate, I 'll give ya a dollar a day and all the mud you can eat."

My "secret" is my ability to assess a higher risk-to-reward situation and still go for it. If a unit gets slapped down to a 4, oh well. If I need said unit in that battle, I pay the price and give replacements. If I have to send a 4 to finish an enemy, it is done.

I am enough of a student of history to know the ragged OOBs that German commanders had to work with, and they pulled off tactical miracles. When my boys drag themselves into all those DVs, they have been bloodied. I dare say that I use considerably more in-battle replacements than most.

The point that the GC is all new to me is also ratcheting up the body count. Some of you probably remember where individual enemy formations are on each map.

Streets of Moscow with over 32k prestige and 64 units, and can deploy 33 I think.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:04 am

The Streets of Moscow are behind me. That was by far the bloodiest, costliest battle to-date. I came out of the battle with a Marginal, one VL short... and I left a captured T34 on the field due to being unable to reach that hex. I did get the KV-1 though at the upper NE airfield. Had less prestige at battle end than at the start.

I left a trail of scattered 1s, 2s and 3s. Even with using replacements on the less-damaged units in order to keep the attack going, it was a horror show. Had to reload three separate allied turns due to insane dice rolls. 11 strength SE PzIII with a defense hero in open ground evaporated under twin T34 attacks. Stuff like that. Next turn it came out as a 5.

This is a bad time of the war for my boys. Facing KVs in PzIIIs is not conducive to long life.

On to the pocket. More fun in the snow. Oh joy.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by TSPC37730 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:56 am

You should consider The Streets of Moscow as a practice run for the Stalingrad scenarios. The SMG units which you will face pack more of a punch however.

The Demyansk pocket is one of my favorite scenarios. It's a good one for your AA & AT units to get some practice. Artillery too. It will be a refreshing change after your last battle. Good luck!

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by AnalogGamer » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:44 am

Would like some advice for the Pocket please...

I have already upgraded my PzIIIs to the J/I variant. My SEs were Hs(durr).

My sole 21cm grabbed a +1 range hero in "The Streets". A small silver lining. Tempted to turn him into a Self-Propelled, but just upgraded the darn thing from a captured 105.

But... I have four JagdPanzers that I have been nursing along to gain experience and heroes. One has a +1 Defense and one has a +3 Defense, the other two are clean.

Should I spend prestige now on a couple of Marders… or wait until '42 for StuGs? I know the Marders hit harder than early StuGs, but the StuG has better defense. I am considering putting the two Def heroes into Marders and bringing them into the Pocket, while benching the clean ones and waiting to put them into StuGs in '42.

What say ye? What is a good force mix for The Pocket? I have plenty of everything, including a pair of KVs and a T34.

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Re: Status Check for GC

Post by TSPC37730 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 am

Actually, avoiding the J upgrade at Vyzama isn't necessarily so bad. I believe you do get a +1 defensively, but, it comes at the expense of -5 fuel. This can be important in the mud & snow.

Anyway, as for Demyansk, firstly, bring AA. There should be targets to practice on. Try to deploy them near the center - if they're too far over on one end or the other they may not be able to get into position. If you use the SdKfz 7/1, try to deploy it on the road. Its mobility in the snow isn't good.

In the air, you should deploy that new fighter you received in last scenario. This is a good opportunity for the unit to gain a star. Between the AA, the aux fighter you get and the new fighter, you may not need any more air power (not counting bombers).

On the ground, most units should be able to hold on if they are deployed in the fortification hexes & are backed by artillery. I think the best units for this scenario are the 105mm & 150mm towed guns. They have good ammo counts & a range of 3 to fire over the line as needed. Since for the most part you'll be in fixed positions, mobility isn't too important. Leave the Sturmpanzers (low ammo) & StuIIIb's (low range) at home for this one.

I think upgrading one or two of your Panzerjager 1b's to Marders is a good idea. There's a good HA increase, as well as an important initiative increase. They are well suited for this scenario if they are positioned carefully in a fortification hex.

Regarding deployment, it's an obvious no brainer to deploy your units in the trenches. But you don't have enough units to form a completely continuous ring. With this in mind, units should be at a minimum in pairs side by side, hopefully with an artillery unit backing them up. Longer lines of 3, 4, or more units similarly backed by artillery should be used in more critical areas. Deploy a few tanks in the center to act as your fire brigade to shore up any weak spots and block any units trying to sneak through. You can also leave a few slots undeployed at the start. As the scenario unfolds, you can (admittedly unrealistically) drop in whatever support you need - artillery, tanks, whatever.

Once the action starts, it's important to check your ammo counts before firing. Between adjacent enemy units & possible snow, your resupply may be limited, or even not possible. In some cases, there may be a favorable attack opportunity but the better big picture option may be to resupply or do nothing. I hate attacking only to be immediately surprised by the yellow ammo warning icon. Often times the unit is then in a bad situation. Don't let this happen to you & good luck!

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