What beats Tiger II?

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Searry
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What beats Tiger II?

Post by Searry » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:51 pm

So apparently I just can't wait the engine dies and the crew blows the thing up...
This tank is the most silly thing in a game filled with silly things.
What beats it?

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm

How about luring it into close terrain, or strategic bombers to strip ammo/fuel, tactical bomber or strong AT?

truth80
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by truth80 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:04 pm

Bring it to forest or city and beat with infantry. Never open terrain with panzers :)

Alternatively bomb it down with experienced level bombers, to prepare the surface for beating.

braccada
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by braccada » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:36 pm

Soviet conscripts work as well :) Even in the open. Block the movement and drain their ammo and the Tiger is not so though any more. Granted they are better against the heavy AT units like the Elephant, but it still works good enough.
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captainjack
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by captainjack » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:06 am

Strategic bomber(s).
Close terrain and infantry, or infantry in general.
Tac bombers (no air defence).
4 or 5* AT unit (eg Jackson or 17 pounder with +8 or +10 attack from experience and hopefully at least +2 hero bonus).
Ambush.

Alternatively, don't bother attacking it and focus on wiping out everything else you can damage. At some point you will be able to mass attack the few remaining ones.
It works OK in US corps with Stug 3G and tiger, so should work a bit later against a Tiger 2.

huckc
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by huckc » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:10 pm

+1 on using a strategic bomber then following up with attacks from your soft targets to fully deplete its ammo.

It's the simple, brute force way that's guaranteed to work. Luring it into close defense terrain is ideal however it's often not an option.

proline
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by proline » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 am

When you are fighting super tanks keep the following in mind- attacking them without killing them only gives them more shots per turn. If you ignore the super tank it gets one shot per turn. If you attack it three times with inferior tanks it gets three shots and it can use its turn to heal so that it's ready to pound you three more times the next turn. Furthermore, those three tank shots you wasted on it could have done damage to the enemy's other units which you instead left unharmed. So if you can't kill it leave it the hell alone.

Better yet, if you can't kill it deprive it of easy targets by putting AT next to it. It will get the most punishment if it attacks them. Encourage it to go into close terrain.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:34 am

proline wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:58 am
When you are fighting super tanks keep the following in mind- attacking them without killing them only gives them more shots per turn. If you ignore the super tank it gets one shot per turn. If you attack it three times with inferior tanks it gets three shots and it can use its turn to heal so that it's ready to pound you three more times the next turn. Furthermore, those three tank shots you wasted on it could have done damage to the enemy's other units which you instead left unharmed. So if you can't kill it leave it the hell alone.

Better yet, if you can't kill it deprive it of easy targets by putting AT next to it. It will get the most punishment if it attacks them. Encourage it to go into close terrain.
This is very true! However, if you can surround/encircle it, it can't repair/refit as much...

hurly
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by hurly » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:05 pm

Just to Add a Bit of Controversy

I Love the Tiger 2

But just like other Great Units One tenders to overestimate it's strength by the fact we rarely see it perform as a Green Unit or in Vanilla Condition.

In Grand Campaign East or West almost anyone is pretty set in Terms of effective Units or Units with multiple Stars or Heroes.
Ist more of a question if you want to pony up the approx "1000" Prestige on a either already effective Elite Unit or if you dig out a at the Time obsolete Unit with some Good Stuff Awarded in the Past.

So I would tend to say

A Great Unit that makes a Step forward and causes all Kind of Trouble to the Enemy if used correctly (you can also easily blow it by getting to careless)
,but for me not much more Impact, then say a few other "heavy" Tanks Related to the Timeline. A Matilda (in some very Early Battles, later a Churchill had no real Open Field Counterparts (Maybe the 8,8) same to some degree the KV 1, a Char was also quite a load). But all of these are extremely vulnerable to Air Attacks and in Close Terrain. The Brit Tanks also had the Problem that their Offensive Abilities are quite Limited in Firepower and Mobility so you could rather ignore them til you had Air Superiority. The KV 1 with its Punch and Ammo is quite nice, but appears in the Era of the Stuka and Supercharged Heroes like Rudel and Lent, so it is quite Easy to Bomb it to Pieces.

The Tank with the biggest immediate Impact for me is the Tiger 1. It has Power, adequate Mobility and Good Ammo. And the Russian Air Force is quite weak, so the Tiger Rules for quite some Time. But the appearance of Stronger AT Units and the almost Endless Stream of Soviet Units (Allied Units in the West) is nagging more and more.

The Tiger 2 is probably the Best Tank in the Game (Timeline and Cost effective related) but it Faces some worthy Opponents like the Stalin 2 or the Russian and Allied Anti Tanks. Also by then the Russian/Allied Air Force is becoming more and more of a Factor. And especially in the East the Endless Stream of Units dooms Every Unit sooner or later.


So no I don't Think the Tiger 2 is the most Impact Unit in the Game.

And there is a Point in a discussion if late Allied or Russian Tanks (Stalin 3 anyone) are not Stronger in a Open Field 1 on 1 Showdown with an even Level of experience or Heroes.

That said I Love the Tiger 2 and it's my Backbone in the Ground in later years GC especially in the East.
But by then the Face of the Game is so different than the Early years and experienced Units are so charged up with Heroes and Experience we rarely See how Good a Vanilla Green Unit Really is.

Sorry for the Twist in the Twist in the discussion. Just Wanted to give a different view


PS i kinda hate the German Autocorrect Mode of my Tablet
Makes you Look like a Dummy at times that Said ,..... covfefe
Last edited by hurly on Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

goose_2
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by goose_2 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:32 pm

hurly wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:05 pm
Just to Add a Bit of Controversy

I Love the Tiger 2

But just like other Great Units One tenders to overestimate it's strength by the fact we rarely see it perform as a Green Unit or in Vanilla Condition.

In Grand Campaign East or West almost anyone is pretty set in Terms of effective Units or Units with multiple Stars or Heroes.
Ist more of a question if you want to pony up the approx "1000" Prestige on a either already effective Elite Unit or if you dig out a at the Time obsolete Unit with some Good Stuff Awarded in the Past.

So I would tend to say

A Great Unit that makes a Step forward and causes all Kind of Trouble to the Enemy if used correctly (you can also easily blow it by getting to careless)
,but for me not much more Impact, then say a few other "heavy" Tanks Related to the Timeline. A Matilda (in some very Early Battles, later a Churchill hed no real Open Field Counterparts (Maybe the 8,8) same to some degree the KV 1, a Char was also quite a load). But all of these are extremely vulnerable to Air Attacks and in Close Terrain. The Brit Tanks also had the Problem that their Offensive Abilities are quite Limited in Firepower and Mobility so you could rather ignore them til you hed Air Superiority. The KV 1 with its Punch and Ammo is quite nice, but appears in the Era of the Stuka and Supercharged Heroes like Rudel and Lent, so it is quite Easy to Bomb it to Pieces.

The Tank with the biggest immediate Impact vor me is the Tiger 1. It has Power, adequate Mobility and Good Ammo. And the Russian Air Force is quite weak, so the Tiger Rules for quite some Time. But the appearance of Stronger AT Units and the almost Endless Stream of Soviet Units (Allied Units in the West) is nagging more and more.

The Tiger 2 is probably the Best Tank in the Game (Timeline and Cost effective related) but it Faces some worthy Opponents like the Stalin 2 or the Russian and Allied Anti Tanks. Also by then the Russian/Allied Air Force is becoming more and more of a Factor. And especially in the East the Endless Stream of Units dooms Every Unit sooner or later.


So no I don't Think the Tiger 2 is the most Impact Unit in the Game.

And there is a Point in a discussion if late Allied or Russian Tanks (Stalin 3 anyone) are not Stronger in a Open Field 1 on 1 Showdown with an even Level of experience or Heroes.

That said I Love the Tiger 2 and it's my Backbone in the Ground in later years GC especially in the East.
But by then the Face of the Game is so different then the Early years and experienced Units are so charged up with Heroes and Experience we rarely See how Good a Vanilla Green Unit Really is.

Sorry vor the Twist in the discussion. Just Wanted to give a different view
Hey Hurly...good to see you join the discussion...thanks for giving your perspective...I like the fact that other players are trying to play with a historical army, and will love to see how that continues in the latter years of the game...but for me I am with Hurly...Tiger 2 all the way with my SE tanks as 45 East on Manstein will be a Bear without my Tiger's to take them out....

You see how I did that, that play on words there ;)
goose_2
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ptje63
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by ptje63 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:43 am

Well all the tricks and hints in getting the Königstiger killed are just the things I do in keeping them alive. No single tank is invincible.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:43 am

ptje63 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:43 am
Well all the tricks and hints in getting the Königstiger killed are just the things I do in keeping them alive. No single tank is invincible.
True ... and this is also another thing: have tanks move around in groups of 3-4 if possible...

captainjack
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by captainjack » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:12 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:43 am
have tanks move around in groups of 3-4 if possible...
It's pleasantly surprising how often applying real-life-inspired tactics works in the game.
Tanks work better as a team, tanks with infantry and artillery support work better still. Mobile artillery (or tac bombers if you have enough control of the air) is very helpful.

Searry
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by Searry » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:53 pm

Sadly these super units killed my interest in this game. Multiplayer isn't a lot of fun with unrealisticly reliable Tiger IIs roaming around like they were a good design. This game is just too unrealistic for my taste.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:13 pm

Searry wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:53 pm
Sadly these super units killed my interest in this game. Multiplayer isn't a lot of fun with unrealisticly reliable Tiger IIs roaming around like they were a good design. This game is just too unrealistic for my taste.
I understand... I think deducter had adjusted the equipment file for similar reasons, have you ever tried McGuba's Battlefield Europe mod (maybe less unrealistic...)

JaM2013
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Re: What beats Tiger II?

Post by JaM2013 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:20 pm

yeah, Tiger II roaming the fields like nothing is very strange... they actually got quite a range in PC...Realistically, they were unable to move on their own more than 40km... same with Panthers.. they were always loaded on train if they needed to move at longer distances.. yet in game, you have no issues whatsoever... I feel like there should be something that doubles their fuel consumption if they are not moving on the road or something...
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