Overstrength.

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stormbringer3
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Overstrength.

Post by stormbringer3 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:38 pm

What is considered a good stopping point? Is 13 a good stop point for regular infantry and tanks? Should SE units go all the way to 15? I'm leaning toward taking artillery, AA and AT up to 15. Whats a good stop point for air units depending on the type?
Thanks for any opinions.

dalfrede
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by dalfrede » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:48 pm

First thing to know is that overstrength has exponential cost:
OverstrengthCostPerPoint1 100 => 1.1
OverstrengthCostPerPoint2 150 => 1.25
OverstrengthCostPerPoint3 200 => 1.45
OverstrengthCostPerPoint4 250 => 1.7
OverstrengthCostPerPoint5 300 => 2.0
This is from gamerules.pzdat file, last column is the total cost of unit with overstreagth.
ie a 15 strength unit has twice the cost of base unit.

It affects softcap, and your prestige management.

So limit overstrength to low cost units [infantry], and to units that suffer low loses [artillery, Rudel].
An overstrength of one can be thought as an elite replacement made during placement.
It is best to not overstrength and save prestige until enemy units are strong enough to cause worry about losing without overstrength [GC43].

Note: the overuse of overstrength made the game too easy. SofCap was added and the overstrength cost was increased.
Purest consider overstrength a 'Cheat'.

RVallant
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by RVallant » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Artillery, Anti-Air and Strat bombers for me.

AA is cheap, but the benefits for overstrength is pretty sweet. I prefer them on units that are less likely to get hit. I go up to 12.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 pm

At least artillery and strat bombers, maybe AA...

There has been some debate around going to 11, i.e. +1 on all other ground units but I am not fully with this opinion... depends also a bit on your prestige situation... at the end of the day overstrength is expensive and lost first... so on normal difficulty not really needed...

goose_2
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by goose_2 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:09 pm

This is a very complicated question that requires more time than I have to go into, I will say this quickly. OS on a very, very limited scale in early years as you want to save money lots and lots of money. And then limit it in latter years to avoid the softcap penalty.
Last edited by goose_2 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Elkarlo
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by Elkarlo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:57 pm

RVallant wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:57 pm
Artillery, Anti-Air and Strat bombers for me.

AA is cheap, but the benefits for overstrength is pretty sweet. I prefer them on units that are less likely to get hit. I go up to 12.
Rudel is also 15 for me, otherwise the same.
AAA when at 12-14 can wreck an aircraft. Nothing like in 44 or afterwards when you hit a Mustang or another allied fighter that's hard to kill and you hit it for a 9 or a 10

captainjack
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by captainjack » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:22 am

I don't use softcap, preferring reduced prestige settings and personal restrictions on unit balance etc.
Most of my units get 1 point of overstrength (sometimes 2), but a few always get more - strat bomber efficiency is related to overstrength, while AAA doesn't often get into combat and usually gets max to boost its chances of ripping up aircraft. Even then, the decision to go from 13 to 14 or 15 is far from certain unless I have a good reason for this. Artillery it depends on heroes and RoF. RoF <100 can mean you get no benefit from overstrength, so most heavy guns stay at 10 strength, while lighter guns usually get to 12 or 13. Otherwise, overstrength goes with heroes - a range hero on artillery or +3 attack or +3D or special hero on any unit is often worth a bit more overstrength to get maximum benefit from the hero (eg Oleh Dir's speed means he doesn't need transport so is cheap to overstrength and high initiative makes him very effective when overstrength. Lack of transport also makes him cheap to elite reinforce in-game if something does go wrong)

The main limitation is at 15 strength a lot of units will cost 200 or more prestige to go from 13 to 15, and these can easily be picked off just by random bad luck, so you'd better be sure you really can afford the cost, and it will often be a better deal to use elite reinforcement in game to maintain experience rather than spending it on overstrength before deployment.

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Re: Overstrength.

Post by goose_2 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:32 pm

I overstrengthened very, very little in my Manstein playthrough, until I reached 1945. Now I overstrengthen all SE units to the max because they do not count for soft cap, but help tremendously to be an impenetrable line they refuse to attack to present to the enemy.

I fully os my Strats either 1 or 2 of them to fully drain the enemies ammo. They work extremely effectively.

Fully OS my StuG3B's and the infantry without trucks as they are super cheap.

I also fully os Rudel to fully take advantage of his awesomeness.

AA I most of the time fully OS to help shred the planes.

Arty is something that I may do somewhat, but my 17cm +3 Att/+3 Def is fully loaded to help with suppression and destruction of the enemy.
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captainjack
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by captainjack » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:24 am

A 5* strat boomber at 14 strength is almost as effective as at 15 strength.

Bomber efficiency is [stars +2] x strength. I think the official formula is slightly different but it works out the same in every case I have tested.
5 star at 15 is [5+2] x [15] = 105%
5 star at 14 is [5+2] x [14] = 98%

Ammo and fuel drain and neutralisation is based on half bomber efficiency, so 52% and 49% respectively. I believe that min ammo is 1 and min fuel is 5, but can't be completely sure.

So not much gain for a very expensive 15th strength point.

Incidentally, bomber efficiency is independent of bomber attack stats, so your Do17 is as useful for draining and neutralisation as your He177.
In a more perfect world better bombers would have a modest increase and there would be some benefit from heroes, but they are still good even without that.

hugh2711
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by hugh2711 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:57 am

In general I agree with dalfrede; "So limit overstrength to low cost units [infantry], and to units that suffer low loses [artillery, Rudel]."
I would add that; remember SE units DO NOT count towards the softcap but the ordinary units are calculated in the softcap at thier overserstrength value not thier base cost. So overstrength your SE tanks. Very often (with those se tanKs) those extra couple of points can mean the difference between taking no losses in combat at all or losing a point.
In general I would not go up to 15, if you occassionally lose a point it is still very expensive to lose that 15th point wheras losing that 13th or 14th is bearable..

captainjack
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Re: Overstrength.

Post by captainjack » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 am

I usually use 11 as my standard setting, and occasionally 12. The exceptions (outlined in a post above) are almost always unit-specific (including Paras or pioneers at max for a bunker-busting mission) or are hero specific.

I recently tried giving all units max overstrength at the start of a campaign (when attacking a new country or a new DLC) but no overstrength until the next country or DLC.
I went back to my usual method after I finished 1940, showing that I like a bit of overstrength but not too much.

Bear in mind I don't use softcap, so I'm only looking at personal preference and value for money.

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