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Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:24 pm
by doggreen77
Was hoping someone can help me with stat info.
1. how much attack and defense is to much? Do u get full affect with +9? At what point is it to much for inf and tanks.

2. Initiate! Now that you can only get +1 initiative is it still valuable for inf like the Pionere?

Thanks for help

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:54 pm
by huckc
1. +9 is possible. For tanks that's +9 to close defense and is the only way to increase it.

2. Extremely valuable for infantry since their initiative isn't capped in close terrain.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:16 pm
by doggreen77
So how many +1 initiative hero’s for inf would u recommend? Is one enough?

Is +9 defense on tank overdoing it?

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:44 am
by captainjack
The combat odds are determined by the difference between attack and defence not by the absolute value.
Somewhere on this site is a full list of the odds for both direct attacks and indirect attacks (AA, Art, Strategic bombers) and explanations of the effect of initiative, weather etc.which may be of interest.

The approximate version:
If attack and defence are the same it's 40% chance of a kill, and roughly +5% for each point of attack over and -4% for each under. After about +/-20%, the change rapidly tails off to about +/-1% for each extra point of difference which means that +8 or +9 advantage is not twice as good as +4 advantage, although it is still better. Also, for most units, maximum kill is about 81% and minimum 6%. This means that a very high attack with +9A might still be 81%. Defence heroes on ground units boost GD, CD and AD, so they are a bit more useful as CD and AD are often quite low, even if it doesn't have much effect on normal combat.

When you get a hero, the type of hero is allocated randomly (1 in 5 chance of each of Attack, Defence, Spotting, Move, Initiative/Range). Units with range 0 always get initiative, but units with range 1 or more at the time of the award (artillery and AA) get +1 range. Spotting, move and initiative are always +1, but attack and defence can be +1 (4/7 chance), +2 (2/7 chance) or +3 (1/7 chance) - so +3A comes up 1/35 times on average.

While soem people try restarting a turn to get a hero you want, you could be lucky but you might spend an awfully long time getting exactly what you want. You might be better off spending a bit of prestige and converting units into something where whatever hero you have gives you most benefit (high defence hero units to less well armoured ones, spotting infantry to kradschutzen to get the extra range etc.

One word of caution - I learnt a while ago (and was reminded again earlier today in Kursk North) that heroes don't save you from dumb play.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:42 pm
by MaxDoge
captainjack wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:44 am
Somewhere on this site is a full list of the odds for both direct attacks and indirect attacks (AA, Art, Strategic bombers) and explanations of the effect of initiative, weather etc.which may be of interest.
Does anyone know where exactly on the forum?

That's an amazingly detailed post captainjack, much more than I was looking for! Thanks very much for that, always wondered how the game calculates these things.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:17 am
by captainjack
MaxDoge wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:42 pm
That's an amazingly detailed post captainjack,
Wasn't it Mark Twain who wrote something like
"I apologise for the length of this letter - I didn't have time to write a shorter one"

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:58 pm
by MaxDoge
Haha, finally learned all the missing stuff about game mechanics, everything makes perfect sense now. The devs have really done a fantastic job in balancing everything.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:51 pm
by faos333
thanks captainjack for detailed answer many details I did not know as well

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm
by doggreen77
Is initiative any good for bombers? Ask cause of this hero I got has +1 attack and +6 initiative

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:10 pm
by dalfrede
doggreen77 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm
Is initiative any good for bombers? Ask cause of this hero I got has +1 attack and +6 initiative
No, Init does bombers no good.
But with a fighter-bomber Init helps in air to air combat.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:30 pm
by goose_2
doggreen77 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm
Is initiative any good for bombers? Ask cause of this hero I got has +1 attack and +6 initiative
This is Helmut Green, he makes for a good Fighter Bomber to mop up weakened air units if needed.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:20 pm
by Cerberus51
doggreen77 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm
Is initiative any good for bombers? Ask cause of this hero I got has +1 attack and +6 initiative
Helmut Lent is actually very useful. The main benefit of initiative is air to air (higher initiative shoots first). Keep Lent in fighter bombers (Me110 series, Me410 and FW190G) and he is generally able to operate without escort as the combat calculation tends to discourage the AI from attacking him. Defensively he is very good at attacking enemy air units once he has a Me410 and definitely once he gets a FW190G. Don't put him in an Arado 234 in 45 as that totally wastes his high initiative.

In reality, Lent was a night fighter pilot with an eventual total of 110 victories. He was killed in an accident caused by an engine failure in the Ju 88 night fighter he was flying.

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:15 am
by doggreen77
What are ur opinions on hero’s for German mountain infantry and German engineers.

And tanks and anti tanks

And if I read caps correctly, +6 attack and +6 deffence is a bit over this 81% cap?

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:13 am
by hugh2711
For mountain and engineers (and paras),I would go for defence first, as although they are great for thier specialised functions (going through woods and bunker/entrenchment busting respectively,) they are both a bit weak when attacked first themselves. After that an extra movement point is very useful.
For tanks iether defence or attack as this will makes things alot cheaper as it will make them less likely to take losses in any combat. secondarily I might be happy with a movement hero as that extra movement can be very useful in the later scenario's e.g. a panther or king tiger with an extra movement is very usefull.
AT; I dont use towed AT, only stugs or mobile AT, they are a bit weaker than tanks when attacked so I would say defence first.
For artilliary always extra range first, then maybe extra movement, then more range or A+3.
For AA always range first followed by movement if 88mm. When using 88 as AT the extra movement is fabulous.
For recon - defence or spotting

Re: Need some help on hero attributes

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:52 am
by Cerberus51
doggreen77 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:15 am
What are ur opinions on hero’s for German mountain infantry and German engineers.

And tanks and anti tanks

And if I read caps correctly, +6 attack and +6 deffence is a bit over this 81% cap?
Gebirgs - As with most infantry the most useful is movement. The trick with gebirgs is to always end their movement in close terrain (woods, hills, etc). Then if they are attacked by tanks it is their attack vs the tank unit's close defence, rather than the tank's attack vs their defence. When infantry are in close terrain it usually ends badly for the tank.

Pioniere - Movement then attack. Movement is particularly useful for move 2 infantry as it allows them to move up to an enemy held objective but stay out of spotting range, then move in and attack on the next turn.

Tanks - Movement, then attack. Initiative can also be useful on late war tanks to give them first d=shot.

AT - Initiative can be useful as it reduces the effect of the move and attack penalty to their initiative. Movement not particularly useful. Low defence units benefit from defence heroes, otherwise attack. Note that I only use SP AT and never bother with towed.