DLC 42 #15 Tatsinskaya

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El_Condoro
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DLC 42 #15 Tatsinskaya

Post by El_Condoro » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:49 pm

Tatsinskaya
Last edited by El_Condoro on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:40 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsinskaya

Tatsinskaya & some background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsinskaya_Raid

I'm already beta testing spelling before the beta! :)

produit
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Post by produit » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:23 pm

Interesting scenario. It was nice to see a Tiger, even if with so few experience, it is not really more efficient that my Panzer IV G.
With such experience, T34/43 and KV1C become more difficult to kill, requiring a combination of air strikes and multiple armored attacks. However, the map is not too hard, if you take mainly anti-tank stuff.

DV on turn 9.

monkspider
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Post by monkspider » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:06 am

Tatsinskaya (General Level)
starting 5128
After upgrades 1707
Ending prestige 1600
DV on turn 13/22

Campaign '42 has finally been brought to an end, and what a ride it was! I think this once again tops 1941 for best campaign yet! This scenario however was really pretty easy. It didn't really feel like it belonged on the hard path. The Soviet's opening offensive didn't have much bite, and only the Soviet counterattacks at the very end really slowed me down (although the frequent snow did make things a bit tricky at times). This time I am going to play the role of Deducter and recommend that you beef up the difficulty a bit. Being a hard mode scenario, and given the description in the briefing of such a huge, well-equipped force, I expected a lot more from the enemy to be honest. Maybe bit more Soviet airpower, and maybe increase the strength of the opening Soviet offensive by 1/3rd? Still, a solid scenario for the most part. Now, I can still look forward to trying to play through with a non-imported core on the easy path and see how it goes.
Last edited by monkspider on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:14 am

Making these 'hard mode' choices harder is entirely feasible, but I want to wait for more feedback before I do anything drastic.

If someone can just walk through the campaign, hard paths and all, on Manstein or Rommel without breaking a sweat, that is a problem.
If someone just breezes through the campaign on Colonel mode though... I can't see that as a good reason to make anything more difficult. Colonel is designed for players who just bought the game and are playing their very first campaign after they install Panzer Corps.

Someone who regularly uses the elite reinforcements button, someone who isn't really aware of the dangers of placing tanks in close terrain, someone who looks at a tank as a tank, they don't see that the Panzer IVG is far superior to a Panzer IIIH because they aren't familiar with the intricacies of the Panzer Corps system of stats and unit strength values and they aren't aware of the historical capability of these tanks either. It really is meant to be THAT easy.
Last edited by Kerensky on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

monkspider
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Post by monkspider » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:16 am

Kerensky wrote:Making these 'hard mode' choices harder is entirely feasible, but I want to wait for more feedback before I do anything drastic.

If someone can just walk through the campaign, hard paths and all, on Manstein or Rommel without breaking a sweat, that is a problem.
If someone just breezes through the campaign on Colonel mode though... I can't see that as a good reason to make anything more difficult. Colonel is designed for players who just bought the game and are playing their very first campaign after they install Panzer Corps. It really is meant to be THAT easy.
I was actually playing on General for what it's worth, not one of the elite difficulties, but not one of the easiest ones either. I do think your caution is prudent though.

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Post by Kerensky » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:20 am

Yea, I remember the calls for a harder 1939 with less prestige, and we all know how that turned out. :)

billmv44
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Post by billmv44 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:09 pm

I agree, get more feedback before drastically increasing the difficulty. It is much harder to kill the Russian tanks now. I think that a small increase in enemy forces might be warranted, but not too much. Once again, no bugs or issues. Beautiful job overall on the 42 DLC. After Stalingrad, I wonder what horrors you have in store for us at Kursk. I expect it will be incredibly hard on the higher difficulties.
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nikivdd
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Post by nikivdd » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:54 pm

Tatsinskaya. General difficulty.

Upgraded all PzIIIL to M.

Another fast pace mission. The moment my forces joined the frontline, the fun for the russians was over. It was like american football and my troops didn't buckle.
It all went much faster than i anticipated. I was holding my breath for a moment when i reached the last VHes but it was more like a storm in a glass of water. I reduced the tension on my precious tanks by throwing them a few bones...the romanian tanks, and they felt for it. Next turn i attack them with Stuka's and Bf110's and then my tanks went for the rather easy kill.
I didn't lose any of my core units, the russians got wiped out thou. The russian units have a good experience but probably lacking a few strength points. To have total airsuperiority since turn 5 makes the whole mission even easier and perhaps i was lucky with the weather. The aux Tiger is nice but we all know that the fuel consumption is much higher with frozen underground and thus the poor fellow hardly saw any action.

DV in 12/22 turns and 4660PP. Losses: romanian units and including all of their tanks.

End core DLC 42:

Infantry: 4
1**** gebirgsjäger
3**** pioniere

Tanks: 16
3**** PzIIIL
4**** PzIVG
1*** SE PzIIIL
2**** SE PzIIIN
2**** SE PzIVG
2**** KV1-B(r)
1*** and 1 ** KV1-C(r)
1** T-34/41(r)

AT: 2

1** and 1*** StuGIIIF/8

Artillery: 5

1**** 21cm Mrs 18
2**** Sturmpz I
1** and 1**** Wurfrahmen 40
1*** and 1**** StuH 42

AA: 2

1* and 1** SdKfz 7/2

Airforce: 12

5**** Bf109G
1* Fw 190A
2**** Ju87D
2**** Bf 110G
2**** He 177A

Image

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Post by Kerensky » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:17 am

Infantry to Tank unit kills is almost a perfect 2:1, awesome. :D

nikivdd
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Post by nikivdd » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:24 pm

Kerensky wrote:Infantry to Tank unit kills is almost a perfect 2:1, awesome. :D
I fear for the left column in DLC 43 with tough battles like Kharkov and Kursk.

billmv44
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Post by billmv44 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:37 pm

nikivdd wrote:
Kerensky wrote:Infantry to Tank unit kills is almost a perfect 2:1, awesome. :D
I fear for the left column in DLC 43 with tough battles like Kharkov and Kursk.
If Stalingrad is any indication, then Kursk will be a titanic struggle. I can't wait!
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pickle
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Post by pickle » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:51 am

For whatever reasons, I had a few fits with this scenario. In particular, I found I was just strong enough to get in trouble with my advance after securing the main airfields. The southern pincer was chewed up, the northern pincer chewed up and the somewhat stronger force in the middle blunted and bloodied. Not enjoyable from having to burn lots of prestige to replace losses but quite so in terms of countering Russian counterattacks and achieving a DV without decimating the core too badly.

Well done scenario in my opinion.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:54 pm

First impression after 2 turns!

GREAT - a clash of steel on open terrain. That's a damn cool scenario, maybe Vitebsk-cool!

Unfortunately it also shares the "oh, it's winter" surprise with Vitebsk.

-> How do players know who moves first?
-> Why does the map not use the winter tileset right away, this switch is always irritating.

But okay, that's not DLC related but more a general issue.


I got a ton of Prestige, seems the intent is like in the previous scenario to recover from Stalingrad losses.

(I am playing with the NEW Tatsinskaya, DLC 1942 v2, Patch 1.0b. I saved the game before the scenario got loaded, so it's definitely the latest version)

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:26 pm

Deserves its own post:

Lost the first entire Stuka unit since the beginning of the 19xx DLCs.
4 strong Russian fighters made use of a weather window to shoot it down.

I also lost 2 or 3 core tanks and some aux tanks. Apparently I have underestimated the effect of increasing experience of the Russian tanks and falling XP levels of my own tanks. Plus there are some more KV and T34/41+43 around this time.

I still have some 4K Prestige.


Edit: I now have some 500 Prestige. Bought a lot of StuG III and StuH42 to compensate for losses of some 4 tanks.
I lost ALL Stukas! I guess I would replay that in my non-beta campaign and pimp all IIIN to IIIM and the BF109G to FW190A.
This was craptacular mistake. Urks.

I like the scenario though, it really makes me think and should not be changed. Probably even better than Vitebsk!

Edit 2: No, I haven't been relieved of command yet, I am just taking a thinking break. ;)

deducter
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Post by deducter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:21 pm

Tatsinskaya:

Played in beta v1.

3 star Russian units? Will this finally be a challenge? The answer is “maybe.”

Did not bother to upgrade or optimize my force composition, mostly on account of laziness. I never feel the need to have the best units or overstrength on all units anyway, although I do give my artillery/stukas overstrength.

I did lose a total of 4 units, including an artillery piece, which is a very impressive accomplishment for the AI on a non-Manstein difficulty.

However, despite the much more impressive AI resistance, I did not struggle too much. Those 3 star KV1-C tanks were hard to kill, but not hard to manage after a strategic bomber attack. It doesn’t matter what their stats are, if they are out of ammo, they are useless.

The initial AI forces were fairly impressive in the middle, but very weak in the north and south. A pincer attack crushed the first wave without much trouble. The advance on the last two VH was harder, due to the final two AI counterattacks in the north and south. Those had a very impressive number of good tanks, and took a long time to deal with.

The fighting was bitter, but if I had managed my forces better I might’ve won DV in like 10/22. The AI units near the last two VH did not activate in a timely manner, and there was a brief window where I feel could’ve attacked and taken both cities. Again, I was expecting this scenario to be hard, so I advanced rather cautiously. In the end, I captured both VH on turns 13 and 14. The AI snuck a T-34 into the airfield area in the middle, which would’ve taken me 3 turns to recall enough forces to force it out and take back the VH. This was too tedious, and since this is only a beta test, I just cheated to get DV.

Cheated to DV 14/22, but would’ve won DV in 17/22 or would’ve won DV in 14/22 if I had remembered to put the AUX AA unit I had in one of the airfield VH in the middle to block the incoming T-34.

The AI needs more units in the north and south in the first wave, and a significant second line of defenses between the airfields and the final two VH. So many forests, so few units in them to oppose the advance.

Couldn’t hurt to give the Russians many more air units. Did not struggle too hard to take control of the skies, even though I had 4 Bf-109G and 1 FW-190 with no overstrength.

In conclusion: Make hard scenarios harder! I did not feel suitably challenged.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:40 pm

I had only 3 highly experienced BF109G that couldn't protect my Stukas - all 4 got shot down.
My BF110G couldn't compete, should have upgraded.

By the time I got offered to upgrade to Tigers I had to replace so many tanks with StuGs that I couldn't afford a single Tiger.


I felt suitably challenged on Field Marshal. :twisted:

I didn't have the experience advantage on my tanks anymore and with the aerial disaster it turned all into a mess.
I think the scenario is fine as it is - it is the first one I would have to replay. And that's a good thing!


This and Vitebsk are my favorites. Stalingrad is well done besides some Factory/Pavlov's house issues mentioned by several players. I just prefer scenarios like this, personal preference.



All in all: Might be the best DLC, though I think the 1940 DLC had better "filler" scenarios between the big ones. Both DLCs feature some extraordinarily well done scenarios.

I am not going to replay Tatsinskaya anytime soon, but I will test one of the updated earlier scenarios, I kept some savegames for this purpose.

deducter
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Post by deducter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:51 pm

Re Longsac: I'm curious as to what changes have been made to this scenario between v1 and v2. The earlier comments mostly mentioned that this scenario wasn't that bad, and they won 13/22 or 12/22 like I did. Perhaps it has been buffed significantly in v2, so my comments are no longer valid.

I suspect though, when you replay this scenario, that you will not lose all of your stukas. Or any, for that matter, since you'll be more careful with your air units. With your stukas, the AI armor attacks are easier to break up, and well, the difficulty goes down a lot.

I overstrengthed/elite reinforced until I had 700 prestige at the start of the scenario. I ended with 500. I do admit it was fun fighting the 3-star Russian units with mostly 1-star units, the reverse of the usual situation, right?

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:59 pm

Most definitely, it was mostly T-34/43 and KV-1C and due to bad weather the Stukas couldn't properly bomb then when they were still alive.

The reversed XP situation finally turns the T-34 in the opponent it should be! Before this DLC they were not much of a problem.

Longasc
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Post by Longasc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Here is my V2 save, reset to the start of the scenario:

http://www.filedropper.com/longtatsinskaya

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