DLC 42 #02 Kharkov42

Open beta forum.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

OmegaMan1
Captain - Bf 110D
Captain - Bf 110D
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:42 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Post by OmegaMan1 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:00 am

Kharkov 1942. DV in 12 turns.
Start prestige: 684. End prestige: 909.
New units purchased: Elite Panzer (deploy), bruckpioniere (T2), cavalry (T5), Ju87 (T6).
Units lost: Core -- one cavalry, two Ju87s, one Panzer; auxiliary -- practically all the units around Izyum, one Panzer, one infantry.
Medals: none. Heroes: none.

Not a terribly difficult scenario, although once again I think I was a little too aggressive for my own good. The Russians made hash of the auxiliary units around Izyum, then made an effort to cross the Donets. Using the Donets as a defensive line I was able to prevent the Russians from gaining any more ground. The AI had a bit of trouble trying to get across the river; it kept pushing units in the bridgeheads at 20,15; 14,17; and 16,21. I was easily able to defeat these attempts, especially since the AI seemed to push some odd units into these bottlenecks, such as the katayushas, which seemed to be a waste.

I was able to cross the Donets in the far north (and received another captured T-34, at Troits'ke) and in the south near Severodonetsk. From there it was a matter of rolling up the Russian flanks. I made the mistake of understimating the remaining Russian forces; it was here that I lost a Panzer while attempting to cross the Donets, and two (ugh) Ju-87s to a well-executed Red Air Force ambush south of Izyum. Duely chastened, I proceeded with much more caution, and thankfully lost no more units in the mission. I destroyed the last Russian defenders in Izyum on turn 9, and cleared my final objective (Severdonetsk) on turn 12.

Overall, a good battle. A debacle for the Russian AI, but then the historical event was also a debacle, so no surprise there. I am learning that the Russians are much tougher now, and that not properly ensuring good air cover (both for bombers and ground forces) is really costing me. Good to see the Russian AI is using its air forces so well. Perhaps it can brush up on its river-crossing skills. ;-)

Next up, Simferopol!

andrewmazlim
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:40 pm
Location: Currently..., Greece.

Post by andrewmazlim » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:11 pm

As much as the 1st senario was VERY hard (but I had a D.Victory, after all), I found the 2nd senario VERY-VERY easy to win it. I don't think if I re-load more than 2-3 times and I won the senario in the 11th turn (D.Victory, again, Colonel Level)...

Mountaineer
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:39 am

I think that the scenario will be much better played with core units that start in '39. Right now, I feel like I have a lot of units but struggle against the KV1 and sheer numbers. The AI is using the air force well and overran auxillary units quickly as I triedd to move up. My planes were busy beating back his but it was too late for the forward units. The prestige seems low and I decided to cheat so I could keep playing/reinforcing. I am avoiding cheats because it is a play test, but I did not want to restart so late into the scenario with this many units.

billmv44
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: California

Post by billmv44 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:40 pm

Played on Colonel level without importing the core force. I generally followed the historical battle. Although I did get the DV, I wouldn't describe it as easy. Dealing with KVs is never easy! No issues with game play and no detectable bugs.
Panzer Corps Beta Tester
Allied Corps Beta Tester

andrewmazlim
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:40 pm
Location: Currently..., Greece.

Post by andrewmazlim » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:57 pm

Since NOBODY won't think to avoid import his core units from the earlier campaigns, I think the 2nd campaign is far easier than the very hard 1st one.

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
Posts: 5542
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:54 am

Reading all of the feedback for this scenario:

Sounds like there are no serious issues with it, and that people are enjoying it. Some find it difficult, while others are having a not so hard time of it, so balance sounds alright. It'll be up to you the player to find the difficulty setting that suits you best. :)

Based on feedback, the points here that need addressing are:
None.

If there's anything else important you feel I missed, let us know!

Adean
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:21 pm

Kharkov 42

Post by Adean » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:33 pm

Not so bad map
I play on colonel difficult
I started with 32000 prestige I upgrade my PzIVF2 toPzIVG and the FJ with tracks
Again suprrise for me, I put the unit as normal and we started the game as second:-D I lost almost every hungary unit. Great idea with SE tanks, great is that they were as a prototype PzIIIL. Soviet unit assult my unit with a lots of tanks and infatery, but I made line and stop them very soon. Not so hard as the first map, sometimes I wasnt shure if the enemy is not cheating:) I assault 15str regular infantry-0exp 0entr with my two 14str pioners-more than 400exp and we together killed only 5of them:( But no so bad, I made quickly. I had more than 10turns to end this scenario.
I got I SE tank, now I have three SE inf and two SE tanks

kashor73
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:50 am

Post by kashor73 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:10 pm

Prestige 13,586 after reinforcing/upgrades.
DV turn 15.

Another T41/41 captured.

Initial assault was brutal for the auxilliary units with the majority being wiped out in the first 2 turns. I was unsure whether to hang back in my starting positions and have the soviets wear themselves out, but in the end moved forward to support the few units that managed to fight themselves clear.

Sheer quantity of troops made this quite time consuming, but with experienced and fully upgraded PanzerIVs the only real threat were the KV tanks.

One thing about the upgrade system is a player core will probably get a full range of upgrades as soon as there available; while the opposition uses a realistic mix of units (T34/40 /41 /43 etc). Combined with experience and heroes it makes the older Soviet units very vulnerable.

Probably not much that can be done about this, unless there was an additional optional difficulty tweak which limited upgrades for each scenario. (So for example only x amount of tanks could be upgraded to PZIVF/2 in the first scenario, x more in the second etc.)

monkspider
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 731
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am

Post by monkspider » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:35 am

Kharkov '42 Redux
starting 4000
After upgrades 900
Ending prestige 1800
Losses 1x STuG and 1x Stuka
DV on turn 18

Alright, it's time for Drill Sergant Monkspider to try to whip this hoopty old core into shape! You call yourselves a Panzer Corps? This is the sorriest bunch of sissies that I have seen I chose the French path back in 1940.


This scenario was once again MUCH more difficult with the non-imported core. Whereas I found this scenario to be moderately easy the first time around, it was actually a respectable challenge this time around. The Soviet thrust from Izyum made much more headway over the Donets and it was a scramble to prevent them making a full-scale breakout. My northern pincer really just got brought to a stand still for turns and turns after it met the Soviet counterattack and the Red Airforce kicked my butt all over the place, even killing one of my Stukas. Never in any scenario, in any campaign including the main game, did my airforce have such a hard time against a Soviet opponent. It took until at least turn 12 or 13 before I finally achieved air supremacy. I was unable to even claim air superiority for the first five or six turns.

I am always amused when I see the antique 1897 Romanian artillery pieces. I would imagine that Hipster Hitler make protecting such vintage pieces of militaria an utmost priority.
http://hipsterhitler.com/

I did manage to eek out a DV (though it seemed to be in doubt for a while), but my core was just beat to hell by the end.

And you want to know the coolest part? I am really finding this somewhat impaired core to be an interesting challenge. I think it would be a cool feature for campaigns to have a hard mode option that starts them off with a beat up, antiquated, inexperienced core that they have to try to build up to respectability. I think that would be a really awesome feature to include going forward.

BriteLite
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:22 am

Post by BriteLite » Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:12 am

I have played thru Kharkov42 several times at different difficulties. Something I thought interesting. If I tried an offensive the AI gets much tougher to defeat no matter what difficulty is. The harder I pushed the AI pushed back! If I assumed a defensive or limited offensive posture the mission was much easier. I love this scenario.

BriteLite
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:22 am

Post by BriteLite » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:02 am

DLC 42 #02 Kharkov42
Difficulty: Colonel
Starting Prestige: 2920

My strategy during previous runs had been to attack on 3 sectors from the North, West and Southwest generally able to secure DV on turns 11 thru 16. This time I evacuated all remaining garrison units to safe positions and initially deploy my forces on the line Valuyki, Balikilya and Kramatorsk. I awaited the Russian advance on the West bank of the Donets and then counter attacked. The enemy advanced carefully on 2 axes. One column advanced up the road to Svatove the other through to Izyum remaining in linear formation on the roads only deploying on a wide front until contact. This allowed me full use of all my artillery once engaged. The Soviets tried to mass assault up the roads while making a smaller effort left and right unsuccessfully trying to find weak points to break through. I was able to contain the advance winning at turn 9. If he had concentrated his KVs at a single point I could not have held but I only encountered single KVs occasionally encountering 2 KV types.
The mission is well balanced and enjoyable. The improvement I could suggest is to “program” multiple KV types in a single axis. That would be tough to handle.

Losses: Half of the Aux and 1 of my Stug core units
Decisive Victory
Turn 9
Prestige 433

I enjoyed Kharkov playing defensive initially as opposed to attack from turn 1.

kjeld111
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:53 am

Post by kjeld111 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:14 am

Second Battle of Kharkov
Colonel, imported 41(beta) core

While not as unique as Vitbesk, another very enjoyable and challenging scenario. Like many others, I used three mostly independant groups :
- one at the center taking the brunt of the soviet offensive. It was pretty clear from the beginning that I had no real chance of defending my starting position, and fell back to a defensive line behind the natural barrier of the Donets. The allied troops were disengaged when feasible, or sacrificed to gain time when not.
- one in the south originally intended to be one half of a pincer movement, but which actually spent most of the battle frantically defending the right flank not covered by the Donets
- one in the north that actually was more successful in the offensive, and did most of the "flanking".

The flow of the scenario was nice, with a seemingly overwhelming soviet assault, bitter defense on the river, then counter attack. The "air" battle was particularly challenging, with a lot of enemy planes, some overstrength and experienced. No match for my own experienced, overstrength, heroic fighters, but a constant danger to my stukas (and with the amount of very strong enemy advanced tanks, I had to use my dive bombers aggressively).

DV with one core (pioneer) unit lost. Like in 1941, I have failed spectacularly at nursing a strong infantry core for the future urban battles. I have no experienced pioneer units at this point, only green recruits that keep dying, maybe one of each correctly experienced gebirgsjager, fallschirmjager, heavy inf, and standard wehrmacht, and that's all.

pickle
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:45 am

Post by pickle » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:35 pm

Replayed this one on the new build. Had pretty much the same result as the first time through-DV in nine turns. The northern pincer in this one seemed to be particularly unopposed until it reached the major objective hex area. Then it got a little more dicey. The southern pincer romped along raising havoc and easily capturing the major objective in its area. Around Izyum, I let the Russians bash themselves against my defensive line just north of the city. Unable to manuveur and stuck with the river to cross, they were worn down, ground up and destroyed. For whatever reason, this scenario really 'clicks' for me and I have a great time destroying the Red Army in a quick fashion. Having said that, I think the scenario is well done.

fginfo
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Québec

Fginfo feedback

Post by fginfo » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:49 pm

Again, a good balanced scenario which hammers it out in the air and on the ground. Depending on how you play this one, it can be easier or not. Realized at the end that all I needed really was to rush the city objectives (perhaps with some kamikaze units) to end the scenario before getting pounded too much. As such, I prolonged the fight and was facing more and more an incoming throng of big tank units (which are tough to handle in the best of times).

A good mix of Defending and fast offensive.
FGinfo

thgmusic
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: "sold" T-34s

Post by thgmusic » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:23 pm

Kerensky wrote:
nikivdd wrote:Aren't the Char1B and Mathilda II getting obsolete or are they still performing well?
They're starting to show their age. Before I got to Stalingrad, all my Char Bs and Matilda IIs died, or I upgraded them to Panzer IVs... and then those Panzer IVs died. lol
The only captured equipment I have left are KV-1s (sold or lost all my T-34s).
Kerensky, how does one "sell" a unit in PC? I think I understand the concept of "disbanding" a unit to gain back a core slot. Are you saying you can get prestige points for that somehow? (yes, my lust for prestige knows no bounds... :D )

Cheers,
Brad
Happy Gameplay!
Brad

Tarrak
Panzer Corps Moderator
Panzer Corps Moderator
Posts: 1183
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:01 pm

Re: "sold" T-34s

Post by Tarrak » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:16 pm

thgmusic wrote:Kerensky, how does one "sell" a unit in PC? I think I understand the concept of "disbanding" a unit to gain back a core slot. Are you saying you can get prestige points for that somehow? (yes, my lust for prestige knows no bounds... :D )

Cheers,
Brad
If you disband a unit in the deployment phase you get the prestige the unit is worth back. I think since last patch to get full prestige back the unit need to be on full strength. If you disband a unit with only 1/10 of it's full strength you only get 1/10th of it's prestige costs back. If you disband the unit outside of the deployment phase you don't get the prestige so be careful here.

thgmusic
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: DLC 42 #02 Kharkov42

Post by thgmusic » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:12 pm

Thanks, Tarrak. It's good to know!

Cheers,
Brad
Happy Gameplay!
Brad

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps Open Beta”