AK: Ras el Mdauuar

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billmv44
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Ras El Mdauuar

Post by billmv44 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:14 pm

Playing on General Starting Prestige 1036, ending prestige 540. No pop up messages received in this scenario.

Upgraded my two Grenadiers to Pionieres. DV on 13/14. The Pionieres were essential to the victory. Other infantry units barely scratch the forts. The Flammpanzer turned out to be less effective than I expected (or was it hoped?). Still, it was useful. The motorcycle troops were useful as well. No issues with game play.

So far, I like the variety of missions and the new equipment. The maps are looking good. I like the desert camouflage on the units. It's nice that the Flammpanzer has a different scheme than the other tanks.
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VPaulus
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AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by VPaulus » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:38 pm

Please post here your comments about this scenario.

grabbysnatch
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by grabbysnatch » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:31 pm

found this scenario really tough and almost impossible to get through the forts and when I did, my damaged units were just picked off. Even with artillary support the forts are tough to knock out. I only managed to take one objective within timelimit so lost this scenario. Fortunately I have been given a second chance to continue the fight in Africa. Like billmv44 the Flamm panzer wasnt as good as I hoped it would be, but i still like it along with the MC. I also like the new unit transport.

Mountaineer
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:35 pm

I never did like it when the scale of thee scenario changed. You still have the same sized units, but the scale of the map is different.

Blathergut
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Blathergut » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:11 pm

2nd scenario, first attempt, general

-very tough...MV on last turn...totally missed until about T12 that there was a victory hex in the southeast corner :cry:

-I thought this relatively easy for the first 10 turns or so, but then getting the last eastern victory hex (and trying to dash to that southern one) proved to be all but impossible

RobertCL
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by RobertCL » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:38 pm

I cannot win this one, too hard because of strong British tanks and too few units on my side (impossibility to use Luftwaffe at the beginning of the scenario), I was unable to even capture the airfield.

Sound of Krad is not the good one!

Flamm Panzer II is crappy, let's use pioneere infantry units instead!

deducter
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by deducter » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:56 pm

Flamethrower tanks look nice. Very high CD units, basically super urban-warfare tanks. Panzer II Flamm INI = 7 seems too high. This suggests that its flamethrower can outrange the 75mm gun on the Panzer IV? I think it’s INI needs to be 3 or 4.

After playing, I think the Flamethrower tanks should be redesigned. They currently look nice, but serve no valuable niche and are fairly useless in combat. My idea is this:

Add the “close” flag to it, lower CD to 2, lower SA to 6 or 7, lower ammo to 4, lower INI to 2. Basically, it’d be a tank that dominates in close terrain. It’d be unique, as it’d be the only hard unit with the close property. It will be able to destroy soft units with ease in close terrain and inflict good damage on certain hard targets too, but it’d be vulnerable to high HA units like other tanks. And it wouldn’t function very well in the open. Also consider adding the fortkiller trait to it, weren’t flamethrowers particularly good against forts?

The number of forts can be very frustrating. Given that most of them have entrenchment, they are nontrivial to kill unless you have combat engineers.

The thing with killing forts is that it is very monotonous. It’d be best to remove some of the forts and add various other British units. Alternatively, I’d remove one of the Matilda IIs and reduce the strength on some of these forts, but I’d add other defenses, especially AT guns.

Without stukas, or the 88 gun, or infantry tactics in close terrain, the Matilda II is invincible. Nothing I had could touch it. I’d remove one of the Matilda IIs, or add a Matilda I, or just have two Matilda Is.

Add some AUX Italians. I think they should be present for most scenarios.

MV and DV objectives too similar, the difference is only one VH.

I obtained MV because I did not allocate forces appropriately.

It’d be nice to add some distinctive terrain features to the desert.

Blathergut
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Blathergut » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:39 pm

2nd attempt...general level

Overcame everything by turn 11...except...nowhere close to the southeast victory hex...everything was worn out by then, artillery shells gone, then the Brit tanks roll up from out of the east and that was it. :cry: :cry:

Tarrak
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:53 pm

Not 100% if this belongs in here as it seems to be more a general bug then scenario related but i found it when preparing for this scenario so i post it here for first. If the moderators think it belongs somewhere else move it. :)

I haven't actually played the scenario yet but i noticed a bug while trying to upgrade my units. When upgrading artillery the game offer me the option to upgrade to StugIII and Sturmpanzer but when selecting one of the units neither the stats nor big unit picture are being shows correctly (they simply remain on the last unit shown before) and the upgrade button is not working. It is possible to buy a new StugIII or a Sturmpanzer tho. I attached two screenshots to visualize the problem.
EDIT: When you manually chose the transport as none before trying to do the upgrades they are actually working. It's non the less a bug i think as it was working before AK without the workaround.


Another little cosmetic problem i see is the camo color on the Flamenpanzer. It doesn't really match the color of the other units in the upgrade/buy screen. It seems quite darker. I attached another screenshot to visualize the problem. Considering the Flamenpanzer looks darker on the map as well this may be intended feature tho, i personally do not like it but. :)
Attachments
Buying Flamenpanzer.jpg
The camo of the Flamenpanzer doesn't match the other panzers
Buying Flamenpanzer.jpg (84.27 KiB) Viewed 2869 times
Sturmpanzer upgrade bug.jpg
Bug with upgrading artillery to Sturmpanzer
Sturmpanzer upgrade bug.jpg (199.58 KiB) Viewed 2869 times
StugIII upgrade bug.jpg
Bug with upgrading artillery to StugIII
StugIII upgrade bug.jpg (201.81 KiB) Viewed 2869 times
Last edited by Tarrak on Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Blathergut
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Blathergut » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:45 am

3rd time...general level

-DV on turn 13...sent the entire Italian force due east along the bottom edge of the map...this seems a bit odd...why that one hex way down there is victory...

Razz1
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Razz1 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:48 am

I did very well on this scenario the first time but no where near what I did the second time.

Here's where I'm at after the last turn.

I think we need to increase the number of turns to 15.

Also I never did get the flag on the left.

The problem is the artillery really doesn't suppress the forts so it's real hard to break through.
Attachments
Ras el Mdaura.JPG
Close but not good enough for a cigar
Ras el Mdaura.JPG (395.13 KiB) Viewed 2861 times

monkspider
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by monkspider » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:14 am

Ras el Mdauuar
Starting Prestige 1400
Ending prestige 600
Losses: 1x Panzer IV, 1x Italian Infantry, 1x Panzerjager

This scenario commits probably the worst sin in all of scenario design, and that is simply not being very fun. Slogging through a vast array of generic forts isn''t exactly the highest aspiration of Panzer Corps players. I also find what seemed to be a huge change in map scale to be somewhat disorienting.

The new flampanzer was fun and looked cool but doesn't seem to be especially useful. I received an elite unit ME-110 at the beginning of this battle, a pity that I couldn't use it. But it is interesting that air units seem to be available as elites now.

I didn't have enough time to capture the southernmost victory hex but I captured all others. Somehow I failed to trigger the two Matildas but even without them this scenario was very difficult. I think the forts are simply too deadly. I lost several of my own units to them, and the aux units were easily chewed up. I also found the experience cap to be rather nonsensical. The player needs strong, elite units in order to survive and the cap adds unnecessarily to the difficulty.

Broadly speaking, the first two scenarios haven't been up to the standards we have seen in the Grand Campaign DLCs in terms of polish and creativity. I feel like we are also going backwards in terms of making the clock a central antagonist and forcing the player down a certain path in order to achieve victory. Hopefully the remaining scenarios will go in a better direction. I think this scenario needs a major overhaul in terms of making it more enjoyable to play.

Tarrak
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Tarrak » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:55 am

I got now to play the scenario and canceled it around turn 10. I was doing OK progress but i lost already 3 core units and i seems to have chosen the wrong core composition anyway. Going to replay it later today but so far my first observations: It does looks tough but not tough in the fun way but in the slog through dozens of bunkers supported by artillery way. Very repetitive and not really fun in my opinion. The scenario is certainly doable but the risks of losing units is very very high with the forts standing so close to each other and the artillery in between.

The forts seems to be pretty resistant to suppression from the 10.5 cm artillery, even good old Stugs seems to have major problem denting them. Did they lose their fortikiller trait? Seems the only way to really hurt the forts is a strike force of a Stug, 10.5 cm artillery and a pioneer. Everything else bounces off with close to no damage and/or take insane casualties. The overstrengthed forts are particularly nasty. Without being able to use planes and no room for maneuver the enemy artillery hidden between the forts is very hard to take out. More often then not moving a unit close to the artillery exposes this unit to fire from two forts ending quite often in its demise.

The scenario seems to require a very special setup. No point in taking any normal infantry with you as it's hard attack is way to low to even scratch the forts. The tanks aren't really effective against the forts as well but can be used to stop the English armor. Planes are not usable at all anyway. One seems to need a lot of artillery, pioneers and some tanks. Generally i really like small scale scenarios which require part of the core and different then usual setup but as second mission already it seems a bit early for me.

The scenario need some tweaking imho unless of course it is designed to be a nasty meat grinder for the players core but doing this already in the second mission of the campaign seems a bit of overkill for me.

Mountaineer
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:39 am

5 restarts and still no closer to playing like I like it. I refuse to lose core units this early in a campaign. The forts obliterate your units.

nikivdd
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by nikivdd » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:24 am

Colonel level.

Received a SE PzIIIF. I did a few changes to my core. I sold the towed AT, sold one M13/40, changed the AA unit to a 8.8. Bought a StuGIIIB. Upgraded artillery pieces and grenadiers to pioneers. And the PzII to III.
I deployed my forces with one slot still available (no prestige left).
Upgrading the italian tanks within the same family is very expensive in comparison to their german counterparts. An oversight?

To attack along the whole frontline is simple suicide. Therefore i concentrated my troops into two groups. One to attack the northernmost VH in the desert and one the most southermost.
I attacked as little strongpoints as possible,just enough to create a corridor on both ends to reach eventually Ras el Mdauuar from both sides. The StuGIIIB pays off in softening the strongpoints and to provide cover to the adjacent pioneer unit. In the south i'm smashing the strongpoints with a pioneer and the the 88, both covered by an artillery unit. By turn 5 both VH are "secured" with a minimum of casualties.
In the north i had no trouble with the cruiser tanks, in the south i first lost a panzerjäger but the teamwork of the 88 and the 5cm PaK did a great job in destroying the Mathilda's.
The flammthrowing tank is good in attacking softened or non-entrenched infantry and artillery but in nothing else. Patience is a virtue, i only advanced towards the last VH AFTER the capture of Ras el Mdauuar which was taken at turn 9. Now both groups will join in the attack on the last VH.

Image

DV on turn 12/14, lost a panzerjäger and a few auxies. 1563PP.

snakepliskin2010
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by snakepliskin2010 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:42 am

I enjoyed this scenario...it portrays the way a breach is conducted by massing combat power in one area to conduct a penetration, and then follow up with exploitation forces.

Mountaineer
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:46 pm

Finally got through by concentrating on one spot. Too bad you cannot use smoke for obscuration. I noticed the AI is fighting better, uses Arty before attacking with IN or AR. Still a significant fight and hard to win until turn 14.

I also note that supply does not go 100% when in the desert, very similar to PG. This complicates matters but in a good way. Not sure why there is no air in this scenario.

Razz1
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Razz1 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:40 pm

Upgrading the italian tanks within the same family is very expensive in comparison to their german counterparts. An oversight?

I agree. You start off with Italian core, use them in the whole campaign but can not upgrade do to cost.

I think we need a few words at the scenario start to remind players to buy pioneer units, since there is no air power and the artillery is useless.

A reduction of 10 to AI experience may help allot.

Tarrak
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by Tarrak » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:09 pm

Managed to get a DV on turn 14/14 on my second attempt on general difficulty level. After knowing what to expect the scenario is more manageable but i am not sure if it's a good design to being forced to fail once before being able to do it. Maybe some more strategic hints or at least a better description what to expect in the briefing could alleviate this a bit.

The scenario still looks like quite a meat grinder for your core, partially due to the quite hard turn limit and the annoying British tanks. I lost a SdKfz. 232, one M13/40 tank and a Panzerjäger I. Could have possibly avoided the loss of the recon but being more careful when scouting but the other two units just got lost to the British tank counterattacks. Their are quite brutal. Especially the Matilda II is a major pain. A positive surprise to me was the usefulness of the 5cm PaK. It can deal some damage to the forts the enemy tanks it needs them suppressed and/or weakened before tho. Still quite useful for the low price they are.

OmegaMan1
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Re: AK: Ras el Mdauuar

Post by OmegaMan1 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:27 pm

Ras el Mdauuar. MV in 14 turns (colonel).
0 medals, 0 heroes.
New units: Recon (deploy), Bersaglieri (T11).
Units lost: Bersaglieri, recon.
End prestige: 579.

A nice tactical puzzle. I had to restart this a few times before I got my opening assualts down right. It's a careful "balancing" act here, as accidental movement next to a fortress can quickly cost you a unit. Even though this scenario had more of a WW1 feel to it (Kaiser's Corps, anyone?), I did enjoy it very much, although I don't think I would want to play too many scenarios like this back-to-back -- sprinkling them throughout the campaign would be fine. A challenging little mission -- I managed to eke out a MV, I just couldn't get to that last fortress along the bottom of the map.

I really like flamethrower Panzer and the motorcycle unit, nice additions to the unit line-up. One request: please get a cool motorcycle sound for the MC unit, hearing a truck when that unit moves seems a bit odd! :)

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