DLC 42 West 01 - St. Nazaire

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billmv44
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DLC 42 West 01 - St. Nazaire

Post by billmv44 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:02 pm

Playing on General with an Imported Core.

My first thought is to be very thoughtful when choosing which units to bring into the battle. I'm really happy I included the Ju-88!
The British are very aggressive and tough to kill. Much stronger than the Russians of 1942 (as I recall from that DLC). I was able to save the dock and all of the submarines. The British bombers never went after the subs. One bomber would come down and I'd shoot it up with my fighter and it would go away. Then another would come along to the same hex. Eventually, I shot down all of his air forces. I didn't encounter any enemy fighters. Too far from base I expect (an Allied aircraft carrier would really tax the Germans). DV on 14/14.
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Kerensky
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Kerensky » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:04 pm

As a reminder for this scenario, if you do import a 1941 CORE, all units not deployed at the start of this scenario will be removed from your reserve permanently. We'll add another message pop up to this affect in the future, and we are aware that prestige will probably need to be adjusted as well.

Kamerer
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Kamerer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:58 pm

St. Nazaire – beta 1

Level: FM
Prestige - Begin: 1,000. End: 2,850. Net: +1,850 * - see note below
Result: DV at 14/14
Replacements: None used.

Problems/map: None noted.

General impressions:

· Fun scenario, well designed and executed.
· Nice map, with good detail and challenges.
· Everything very clear and worked smoothly.
· Allowing importing units was a good feature to satisfy players.
· Stating experience cap and SE limit in briefing was good for clarity.

I chose to import from an old core and that made it easy; next beta I will start with stock/provided core for variety. I looked at the “stock” core and it looked to make a dv achievable, though I did not play the scenario with it yet.

I imported the pick of an old campaign from a “Rommel” setting, so my prestige is probably lower than otherwise, but the units I brought over probably had more experience (and very good heroes on them). That made the scenario easy, but still fun to strategize and react to various forces. Most all players will initially bring their choice units I think, so I decided to play the beta that way.

8 Core imported:

2 x Sturmpanzer I
2 x 21cm M18 artillery
1 x KV 1b
1 x Pz.IV/F
1 x Bf 109
1 x Ju87

I also brought four SE units; I liked them and the experience and did not want green ones:

2 x SE Infanterie, 1 Pz.III/J1, 1 Pz IV/F

These 8 core/4 SE all had 300+ experience, 13 strength, and nice heroes, making the scenario easy.

* - I used a code to reset my prestige to 1,000, and report the results rounded to the nearest 25. So you can assume from my testing that the campaign starts with a) your best eight units you import + SE, and b) 1,000 prestige and track the progress from there.
Last edited by Kamerer on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:49 am, edited 4 times in total.

ivanov
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by ivanov » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:19 pm

The captured units from the preset core ( Panhard recon and SOMUA tank ) have a golden ball on their strenght plates which indicates that they have a hero, however they don't.
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Chris10
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Chris10 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:38 pm

I decided to not bring any untis into this as I wanted a realistic result on how difficult it really could be for new players or those who dont import CORES since this dilutes greatly the basic setting.
Good scenario to start with and not easy if given the designed units..I achieved only MV and had little prestige left
playing default Colonel

Razz1
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Razz1 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:06 am

NO Core
General
Lost Hero with AC
gained +3 Initiative hero with Flame tank
DV 14/14

lost one fort

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Razz1 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:32 am

After loosing the first game I went back to try again.
NO CORE
General

This time I captured the airport up North early.

It must have unleashed a whole hoard of infantry units as the AI spammed them all along the docks and I was unable to even contest the AI

The spam never happened in the first game.

Lost almost every unit for a MV.

Time to try again.

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Razz1 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:12 am

Tried a third time and the AI landed near the docks again.

Still a MV

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on last turn lost the howitzer artilery

nikivdd
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by nikivdd » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:27 am

St. Nazaire Colonel diff

I imported a DLC 41 core (had 5 sets to chose from).
3 Eng, 2 Bf109e, 1Ju87D, 1 Do217E, 1 KV1-C :) and 4 SE Tanks.

I noticed, if i wanted, that i could end up with a ton of prestige, simply by disbanding all the rest...but i resisted the temptation ;).
I used 1 Eng, the Stuka and the Do217E for the south part of the harbor. The rest north of the harbor.

I got rid of the attackers around Normandy dock rather easy with my 3* Eng and with a little help from above. I was just 1 turn too late to destroy the allied engineer in St Nazaire Dock, scuttling one sub.
The northern party had set their eyes on the AA gun near (16,9), who forgot about all the rest, thus exposing them in the open and were easy pickings for my armor. Only after several turns the AA gun was history, and only then there was an attempt to go further down, in which they didn't succeed. One SE PzIVF/2 went on a rampage behind the enemy line to kick those artillery guns :)
This is really a different kind of scenario compared to the endless waves of russian armor. I expect for DLC west more "soft" targets, so i am lucky to have 4 SE PzIVF(/2) tanks. I liked the scenario, not that i expect them to be all like this one. I'm looking forward to counter attack scenarios above all. It is a nice opener, while realising, that allied armor is no match at all at this time and second, allied infantry can be damn dangerous when not in the open.

MV, 3116PP, no losses
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Blitz1945
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Blitz1945 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:23 pm

This one is tough. I am not importing and using the default units. Ready to try a second time..
It kicked my butt the first time!

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by grabbysnatch » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:49 pm

I enjoyed this scenario, even though it is tough. I started on General level with no core units. There is little prestige and no spare core slots, so I was unable to invest in a anything new. The Allied bombers made straight for the subs and it was difficult to fight them off.
I had a victory in the lower dock area against the commandos, but splitting my forces in two made it an almost impossible attack. especially after I lost my artillary and Se panzer to lucky shots.
I did manage a minor victory with only one sub remaining

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by zappel » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:53 pm

Probably not worth mentioned: I imported my core units from GC41. Two of them were a 21-cm-Mörser 18 and a 8,8-cm-FlaK 36, both units had "old" transports SdKfz 251/1. Perhaps they should be "converted" to SdKfz 7.

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Razz1 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:58 pm

Since player's are not having a problem with imported cores...

Use the following for starting core:
After two years player's will have at least 4 units with hero's
Add a hero to the Me 109
Add a hero to one of the tanks.
Now, the starting core has 3 heros
Change the Flak to an 8.8cm
Everyone has one in 41 and will import it

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by zappel » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:12 pm

Imported core units and played on Colonel:
A enjoyable scenario to start the GC but the major difficulty was to choose which units I had to disband.

zappel
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by zappel » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:18 pm

nikivdd wrote:I imported a DLC 41 core (had 5 sets to chose from).
3 Eng, 2 Bf109e, 1Ju87D, 1 Do217E, 1 KV1-C :) and 4 SE Tanks.
Just a question out of topic: where did you get the KV1-C?
I noticed a KV-1A at Vyazma and a KV-1B in Smolensk and another one in Moscow but I had missed this KV-1C.

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by ThvN » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Colonel level, I did not import a core (don't have any). DV on turn 14, prestige on last turn: 498, no losses altough I loaded twice to prevent those. Yes, I'm lousy.

HMS Cambelltown showed up from the west, but got stuck in (12,17), expended its ammo and remained there for the rest of the scenario? The two other destroyers nibbled one strength point off of one fortification (10,15) but otherwise remained at (11,14) and (12,15). No paratroopers, etc. Strat bombers showed up near the U-boats and left after I shot them up with the aux Flak and the Bf-109, they did not damage a single sub. They returned later to bomb my artillery, nearly running them out of ammo, which caused some problems. The Bf-110 was very useful, as was the SE Panzer IV.

After the HMS Cambelltown got stuck on the fourth turn I left the Normandie Dock alone, nobody showed. Which was fortunate, as I could concentrate my forces around (16,9), where the nearby lake proved perfect to channel the attackers and cause some surrenders. Turn 6 I captured the north airfield, and altough a single Crusader tank got as far as (14,13), it was halted by two aux 37mm Flak guns.

An interesting feature/exploit: you get prestige for recapturing lost flags. It could encourage very 'gamey' players to abandon flag hexes to purposefully bait the AI in capturing those and then rake in extra prestige while recapturing them. Retreating for that purpose doesn't sound very "prestigious" to me, but recapturing some of the lost flag hexes gave me enough extra prestige to buy elite reinforcements for some units during the scenario.

After reading the other reports I will play it again to see if the destroyer was a fluke or something.

Disclaimer: "No U-boats where harmed while testing this scenario."

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by nikivdd » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:22 pm

zappel wrote:
nikivdd wrote:I imported a DLC 41 core (had 5 sets to chose from).
3 Eng, 2 Bf109e, 1Ju87D, 1 Do217E, 1 KV1-C :) and 4 SE Tanks.
Just a question out of topic: where did you get the KV1-C?
I noticed a KV-1A at Vyazma and a KV-1B in Smolensk and another one in Moscow but I had missed this KV-1C.
Sorry, typo, is a KV1-B :oops:
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zappel
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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by zappel » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:28 pm

nikivdd wrote:
zappel wrote:
nikivdd wrote:I imported a DLC 41 core (had 5 sets to chose from).
3 Eng, 2 Bf109e, 1Ju87D, 1 Do217E, 1 KV1-C :) and 4 SE Tanks.
Just a question out of topic: where did you get the KV1-C?
I noticed a KV-1A at Vyazma and a KV-1B in Smolensk and another one in Moscow but I had missed this KV-1C.
Sorry, typo, is a KV1-B :oops:
Nevermind :wink:

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by Zhivago » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:49 pm

Playing FM (imported core)...4 SE units (three 13-strength grenadier units, and one 13-strength PZIVF/2). Since the mission briefing said this was going to be a seaborne assault, I decided to bring my Do 217E strategic bomber (13 strength), two 13 strength BF109F's, and one 13 strength JU87D. I also brought one "regular" PZIVF/2, one "regular" 13 strength pionere unit, and two regular StuG B artillery pieces (both 13 strength). All of the SE grenadiers, and both stug B arty units I situated in the main city. I put one SE tank coming from the southeast, and my regular tank coming from the northeast along with the pionere unit. I put one fighter and the Stuka coming from the northeast airbase, and the strategic bomber and one fighter coming from the southeast airfield.

Using the Stug arty pieces, SE grenadier units, and the auxiliary AA gun, I set up a defensive, supportive fighting defense which managed to hold the British advance on the city. My strategic bomber makes short work of the attacking ships, and the fighters tear up the incoming British bombers. The Stuka goes after the British arty pieces. I found it is important to take the British-held northwest airfield, so I send one tank and the stuka off to take out the British AT gun guarding it.

I was able to get a DV on turn 14 of 14 and recaptured all hexes. The Brits did not get near the sub pens. However, had it not been for the four SE units, and indeed all of the overstrength units (most with hero bonuses) I would have had a much harder time. I have not tried the campaign with the default core, but the British troops (as we especially learned in the Afrika scenarios) are much more formidable than the Russian troops on the whole. My hardened SE troops got their noses bloodied trying to dislodge the Brits.

I like the scenario, but I think new and inexperienced players will have a lot of problems with it.
Last edited by Zhivago on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: DLC 42 West 01 - St. Naizare

Post by deadtorius » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:36 am

So far I have tried it twice with imported and once with the stock core from the game on default and general difficulties.

First time out I was expecting the allies to land on the shore so I set up with my back and artillery facing the enemy, thank you sacrificial troops who slowed down the commandos and gave me a chance to turn around. Unfortunately I tried to stand where I was deployed and they made it to the subs and sunk 2 of them so restarted with the imported corps for round 2.

This time I deployed facing and then fell back a bit to try and form a line to keep the English from making it to the docks. Which worked fine till the message that enemy troops had indeed landed behind me and suddenly my motorcycle troops were rushing to the docks, along with a recon and PZIII to take care of the para's. I should add in that I had 4 SE units in my imported core and I was glad to have the extra troops. It made the scenario a bit easier. A fighter is necessary to shoot down the bombers, and I took an ME110 which attacked Campbelltown and it did not detonate first time out, happy accident there, as it shot its ammo in defence of the air attack. Got a major victory after 14 turns. Have to wonder if it would be wiser to not kill those last 2 and 3 strength Brit units since after they die a whole new wave comes charging in from off to the West...

I found with the standard core it was a lot harder to make a line to keep the Brits from sneaking by and getting into the docks. I lost the artillery unit since I could not keep it covered and between bombers and attacking ground troops it ended up in the front line and lost. Also found it much more difficult to get to the docks, the Brits occupied 2 of the dry dock hexes before i destroyed them and retook those hexes again. Campbelltown also managed to detonate and disable the docks. The Me 109 is so short on fuel it can't even make it to the docks without running low on fuel so not much threat to the bombers, one of which sank a sub on me :oops:
By far easier with the imported core units. Perhaps a couple more ground troops could come in handy with the default core.

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