Allied: Second Alamein

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uran21
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Allied: Second Alamein

Post by uran21 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:43 pm

Please post here your comments about this scenario.

omegabet
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by omegabet » Sat May 04, 2013 12:44 pm

Missing units:
New equipment types are available for purchase and/or upgrade, 5 US units are missing, like the M10 Wolverine. There is even no place for US units tabs, as the 5 tabs in purchase are already taken: EN, New Zealand, Aust, French, South Africa

LostAgain
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by LostAgain » Sat May 04, 2013 8:07 pm

Playing FM. I can't understand why at this late stage of the game I'm still unable to purchase American Units! Otherwise, I found this scenario very challenging and more like the previous DLC's Slitherine has put out. Was awarded a THIRD SE Aircraft, this one is a P-47D! Aren't there any SE Tanks for the Allies? I saw a SAS unit and a paratroop unit, other than that, all I've seen are SE Aircraft. I'm just wondering, not complaining, as having SE aircraft is turning out to be quite a boon, as it fits well with the way I generally play.

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Zhivago » Sun May 05, 2013 2:16 am

Some initial thoughts...I played this scenario about half way through once, but did enjoy it. I was playing FM and getting my ass kicked. I applaud the devs for the extremely tough fortifications. Trying to get through the minefield is really challenging, even with the special matildas and pionere units. And when you get through the minefield, there are plenty of nasty reserves waiting to pick off weakened troops. Definitely one I think will take several plays to master. I think more than two special matildas are needed. Combat losses get very high, and prestige gets drained fast.

Kamerer
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Kamerer » Sun May 05, 2013 4:02 am

13) 2nd Alamein – beta 1

Level: Field Marshal
Prestige: Begin: 1,925 (after purchases/repair). End: 2,325. Net: +400.
Result: DV 20/22
Replacement policy: Deployed air and tanks at 13, arty, infantry at 12.

Core Changes:
  • Disbanded: None
    Purchased: 1x Mosquito
    Upgraded:
    • 1x Cruiser tank to Sherman
      4x Churchills II to Mk.IV
Problems:
  • • Is there a less than 100% chance mines are spotted in adjacent hexes? I sometimes – rarely, have a unit that does not detect a mine, then another unit moves into it. It happened once in an earlier scenario. I find it happen in regular AK once in a while, too. This is after de-selecting the unit and selecting another, that doesn't play a part.
General impressions/comments:
  • • This scenario is interesting and not as frightful as it sounds in the briefing. The minefield was a new level of artistry and a fresh challenge. Nicely done.
    • I am not too excited about the flail tanks. They look great, but though promised to be faster, are in no way any better than using engineers. Maybe giving them recon movement and two attacks per turn? Then they could clear two adjacent hexes at least.
    • It seems like a good-to-go scenario to me; I'd just love to see the flails have a little more uniqueness about them or advantage over engineers.

nikivdd
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by nikivdd » Sun May 05, 2013 10:05 am

Colonel level

Upgrades: 2x Churchill II to IV, 6pdr AT to Deacon
Disbanded: 1x 6pdr
Purchases: 1x Churchill IV, 1x M7 Priest

The best scenario up to now. First find your way through the maze of minefields and then engage the enemy. I made the mistake in committing forces along the coast which is imo not the best place to force a breakthrough. Further south i breached the minefields in two spots and engaging the italians went far better. The occasional enemy tank made it hurt at times but the Hur IID is an excellent tank killer. I didnt keep the score but i lost a lot of auxiliaries. The scorpions are a nice addition but i was not going to spend points on them, they both ended with 1str point left. I was surprised that when only Ghazal remains, that the remaining axis units were not converging towards this objective. The deacon did an awesome job in engaging (partially) surpressed hard units.

Losses: plenty of auxiliaries, DV 20/22, 1100PP

Razz1
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Razz1 » Tue May 07, 2013 3:56 am

General
Start
End 1577

Another blood sucking prestige map.

Fighting 3 deep mines is not my thing.
One half ammo supply in desert killed me.
My airforce missed 60% of the time or more. Aircraft was useless.
Sand storms every two or three turns didn't help either.
Missed triumph by one city.

I think this map needs to be reduced a little. Two deep in mines is plenty.

Lost my SE Spitfire.

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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Tarrak » Wed May 08, 2013 8:39 am

Scenario: Second Alamein
Difficulty: general
Outcome: Triumph on turn 21/22
Starting Prestige: 5248
End Prestige: 3597 -> 11197 after victory reward ... WoW that some huge prestige injection .. i see pain incoming
Core: 2 x Infantry, 2 x Engineer, 5 x Churchil II,1 x Crusader Mk.III, 1 x RR recon, 2 x 7.2 inch guns, 2 x M7 priest, 1 x Hurricane Mk.IIC, 1 x Spitfire Mk. VB, 1 x SE Spitfire Mk. VB, 1 x Beaufighter Mk.IF, 1 x Wellington Mk.III

Bought 1 x engineer to replace the losses form previous mission and 1 x Churchil tank.

Deployed my troops along the whole front line and decided to push the whole line. After finding out about the evil defense along the coast i decided to stop the push there and just break through in the middle and south. Pushing thought the mines was slow but not to hard. The mobile German AA units was quite annoying with their speed as no matter where i decided to bomb something with my planes they appeared there and nagged point per point of my bombers down. Everything went quite good until the point the where i managed to push past the mines and took the most southern victory hex. Losses from my core units so far was only one engineer unit but this seems to have triggered a quite big counter attack by German armor. This caught me a bit by surprise and i lost a churchill tank and an infantry unit from my core. After repelling the counterattack my forces swung north for the final victory hex which proved not really hard anymore. I just managed to lose one more Spitfire fighter mostly due to my stupidity by using it as a scout and flying it into the enemy 88.

Strangely while i had some trouble with the scenarios before this one didn't seem particularly bloody or prestige sucking. My core losses are quite high at 4 units lost by tbh it was only 3 that was really due to AI attacks, one goes to my own stupidity. Generally it seems to me that in AC core losses seems to be far more frequent then when playing the German side. I guess it got something to do with the lesser quality of allied units compared to the German ones.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Longasc » Wed May 08, 2013 10:20 am

I restarted after 4 turns as I lost a RECON and as I was about to buy something to replace it... I noticed you can get CHURCHILL IV in this scenario. Which caused me to restart and try it again with these sluggers as I think Churchill + Infantry shoveling away mines is key to winning this battle.

Why? Churchill tanks can just park in front of the enemy and while they pack no punch, they will wear down any defender, and the Mark IV even more so.

I had 3 strength 15 engineers in my first run to clear minefields together with the Scorpions. This worked out nicely, Miteirya Ridge was taken by stubborn attacks till the enemy artillery ran out of ammo.


As I am probably going to watch Star Trek tonight this battle will be delayed. ;)

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Zhivago » Wed May 08, 2013 2:03 pm

Kamerer wrote:13) 2nd Alamein – beta 1

Level: Field Marshal
Prestige: Begin: 1,925 (after purchases/repair). End: 2,325. Net: +400.
Result: DV 20/22
Replacement policy: Deployed air and tanks at 13, arty, infantry at 12.

Core Changes:
  • Disbanded: None
    Purchased: 1x Mosquito
    Upgraded:
    • 1x Cruiser tank to Sherman
      4x Churchills II to Mk.IV
Problems:
  • • Is there a less than 100% chance mines are spotted in adjacent hexes? I sometimes – rarely, have a unit that does not detect a mine, then another unit moves into it. It happened once in an earlier scenario. I find it happen in regular AK once in a while, too. This is after de-selecting the unit and selecting another, that doesn't play a part.
General impressions/comments:
  • • This scenario is interesting and not as frightful as it sounds in the briefing. The minefield was a new level of artistry and a fresh challenge. Nicely done.
    • I am not too excited about the flail tanks. They look great, but though promised to be faster, are in no way any better than using engineers. Maybe giving them recon movement and two attacks per turn? Then they could clear two adjacent hexes at least.
    • It seems like a good-to-go scenario to me; I'd just love to see the flails have a little more uniqueness about them or advantage over engineers.
I agree with the comment on the Matilda Flail tanks--I think they are relatively wimpy. Since they are using a flail and are armored, it would stand to reason that it would be at least uncommon for them to take casualties clearing mines, unlike infantry units which usually always lose about 1 strength point. I would even add that they should be able to clear two minefields per turn, since they are mechanized.

ThvN
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by ThvN » Wed May 08, 2013 6:59 pm

Second Alamein

General, Triumph 22/22

Prestige before/after deployment: 4833/1734
Prestige on last turn/incl. victory bonus: 2036/10434

I only deployed a couple of tanks, thinking I'd mostly need infantry, artillery and airpower. I was wrong, and I ran in trouble when dealing with the Axis armor, luckily my artillery prevented bad losses and my airpower could usually take a first bite out of the toughest opponents. This all took far too long and my units started crumbling. I was seriously doubting if I had enough bits and pieces of units left to make a final push for the last objective, but I just managed it on the last turn.

I had brought along 1x Commando, 2x HW inf, 2x engineer (I purchased a second one to deal with the minefields), and an extra 5.5 inch artillery, as I hadn't tried that size yet. It's a bit of an odd duck, its introduction is fairly late, and it may be a bit cheaper than the heavier ones and able to use a Universal Carrier, but it doesn't really make a convincing case for itself.

For tanks I deployed a Matilda II (13), Grant (12) and a Churchill Mk II (10, but 3 stars). A Chevy WB proved very useful, the Daimler AC less so but the recon movement allows quick mapping of the minefields. My artillery consisted of four towed guns (of which one still is a 25-pdr) and a Bishop.

Airforce: 2x SE Spitfire, a Mosquito, Hurricane IID, Wellington, Lancaster. Only the Wellington suffered no losses, the rest emerged roughly halved or worse.

Overall, I lost a lot of strength points, and German air units and air defense made life difficult. The minefields were fine, I used the engineers in the South and the Matildas in the centre.

The flail tanks are excellent, as hard targets with 15 GD they can withstand artillery bombardment, and can even help in mopping up armored units.

Longasc
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Longasc » Thu May 09, 2013 3:55 pm

Second Alamein

Level: General
Start Prestige: 2826
End Prestige: 748
Result: Triumph, 14/22
Bought/Upgraded/Losses: Upgraded all Tanks except Crusader III to Churchill IV. Lost Crusader III to 8.8, lost two Recons to the 21st Panzer Divisions and lost an Auxtralian Infantry.
After repairs I started with 1555 Prestige.

The Churchill IV is a kickass tank. Sure, it's not an Infantry killer but it cannot even be stopped by artillery or 8.8s.
The minefield requires surprisingly little player care, the two flail tanks are excellent for clearing a path and can take enemy artillery an counterattacks. My Engineer and the aux Infantries were enough, as there is also plenty of time to break through.

The counterattack of the 21st caused losses, as it should be, IMO.

What I liked a lot was that the skies were initially totally mine till some Messerschmidts showed up. Together with numerous flak I suffered serious strength point losses, even the danger of losing a Mosquito and a Hurricane. As repairs cost me LOTS of Prestige I stopped repairing my airforce in the last turns to save Prestige.

Will read the briefings and debriefings later, I really liked the scenario. Would like to disagree on giving the flail tanks better mine clearing, there is plenty of time and it's more about figuring out where to destroy the mines than playing Pacman. Granted, the 2nd time this scenario goes way faster as you will know where the mines are placed.

Excellent scenario. Btw, TARRAK, you forgot to upgrade your Churchills! :)

Tarrak
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Tarrak » Thu May 09, 2013 7:26 pm

Longasc wrote:Excellent scenario. Btw, TARRAK, you forgot to upgrade your Churchills! :)
I fall victim to the bug not displaying correctly new units availability. Simply didn't noticed a new version was available, which was a pain as Churchill Mk.IV finally sports a gun worth mentioning. :)

Tbh i noticed m mistake already after playing the scenario by reading what other wrote about it here. I try not to read anything about scenarios i am going to play before to not have any additional information for a real "first time" experience.

billmv44
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by billmv44 » Fri May 10, 2013 9:04 pm

Beta 2. General. Starting prestige 8598, ending 5130. No core losses (although it was close).

Gee, that sure was a lot of mines! After trying to force my way through along the coast, I switched to the area just south of the road. I was able to break through and take Miteirya Ridge and then the hills at 12, 10 in fairly good order. The 88 AA unit kept my planes away for a time, but I was able to over come it with arty and a Sherman. I also punched two holes in his lines north and south of the hills at 11,17. After a tough fight, the hills fell and I was able to unleash my own flanking attack. I struck his armored reserve before it could attack me. My Mosquitos really smashed up those Pz III's. This was the first encounter (that I remember) of a Pz IV with the long gun. Air power smashed him before he could do any damage. I expect we'll see a Tiger I soon.

I also noticed units not spotting mines adjacent to them. I was surprised a couple of times. Even if it's a bug, it might be nice to leave it as is. I'm sure not every mine field was identified before someone brewed up in it.

All in all an entertaining scenario. As the briefing stated, it was a slow process to dig them out.
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Kamerer
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Kamerer » Sat May 11, 2013 3:53 am

5) Secondo Alamein – beta 2

Level: Rommel
Begin pp: 2,150. End pp: 2,050. Net -100.
Result: Triumph 19/22

Core Changes:
  • Received: SE Spitfire Mk.II
    Disbanded: None.
    Purchased: None.
    Upgraded:
    • 1x SE Spitfire to Mk.IX (Unbelievable gits at GHQ!)
      1x HW Inf. Lorry to Bren.
Problems:
  • • Still having problems with units not spotting mines occasionally. Flail tank cleared one mine. This time: selected another tank to move into a clear unit next to it. After I click, mine appears, 2nd tank remains in place and loses turn. So I am curious to ask again, is this an error, or is there less than 100% chance units spot adjacent mines?
    • Had an (opponent) unit retreat into my forces when they had a clear retreat option rearward (will try attaching a screen capture and explaining).
    • Mines still exert supply ZOC on nearby units (should not be that way).
General Impressions/Comments:
  • • Scenario works well. I was more skilled at coordinating flail tanks and regular armor in breakthrough and got it done much more quickly and cheaply. Cleared the map by turn 19.
Retreat error. Here is a screan cap if I get it right. Sorry no illustrations. In front of the highlighted tank was a 2 strength artillery unit. As you can see, it a clear line of retreat to the rear. Instead it moved to its immediate right (south) and under my Mosquito, whe it was killed before I thought to illustrate the point. Ok, skip the cap, wrong photo and too big. But that was the issue.

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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Rudankort » Sat May 11, 2013 7:00 am

Kamerer wrote: Still having problems with units not spotting mines occasionally. Flail tank cleared one mine. This time: selected another tank to move into a clear unit next to it. After I click, mine appears, 2nd tank remains in place and loses turn. So I am curious to ask again, is this an error, or is there less than 100% chance units spot adjacent mines?
Kamerer wrote: Retreat error. Here is a screan cap if I get it right. Sorry no illustrations. In front of the highlighted tank was a 2 strength artillery unit. As you can see, it a clear line of retreat to the rear. Instead it moved to its immediate right (south) and under my Mosquito, whe it was killed before I thought to illustrate the point. Ok, skip the cap, wrong photo and too big. But that was the issue.
[/quote]

Hard to tell without seeing the screenshot. What kind of terrain was there behind artillery unit? Can it be that either artillery itself, or its attached transport, could not go to such terrain?

Zhivago
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Zhivago » Sat May 11, 2013 8:53 am

Why not make the Matilda flail tank a purchasable equipment option for players? Given all of the minefields in the North African scenarios, it would seem logical. I still personally think they should not suffer a 1 point casualty every time they clear a minefield like infantry units do. Maybe the game engine could be tuned to make it a chance that it could take a casualty while clearing a minefield, but it should not be automatic. I also think that a Matilda flail tank, being mechanized, should be able to clear two minefields per turn, or perhaps have a hero bonus that could be awarded to allow it to clear two minefields per turn.

borsook79
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by borsook79 » Sat May 11, 2013 5:00 pm

I started this scenario by choosing El Alamein from the campaign menu, it starts with all the cores already purchased but in that pool there are no Allied bombers (the player has 3 fighters) this, together with rather strong German AA makes the air superiority the Allies enjoy here rather meaningless.
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Mariancdr
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by Mariancdr » Sun May 12, 2013 4:17 pm

Triumph in the end. Interesting approach with the minefield but not very useful for the enemy.
The minefields are used to slowdown the enemy or to make him choose the road that you wish; so, for example if the enemy has started to breach through one point of the minefield I will use my forces to destroy any unit that will go through with the classical bull horn tactic.
If my main Obj is to keep the attacking enemy beyond the minefield line, why keeping all of my forces (artillery/tanks/etc) far from that line? Why the AI enemy is not attacking with all of their forces?? The AI C2 doesn’t look very smart.

produit
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Re: Allied: Second Alamein

Post by produit » Sun May 12, 2013 5:29 pm

Beta2, Triump 14/22, FM, Chess mode, Ending prestige 2053. Cleared the map, excepting 2 minefields in the south.

This map makes you advance really slowly, planning a lot all your movement, to have not too many surprises with mine contacts. I barely saved some of my tanks, but I was able to make them survive. As always, air power (Mosiquitos) are needed to destroy enemy tanks, but they hardly counter attacked before I discovered them. Also, Churchill Mk. IV makes the enemy stay away from me...

I liked to play such a map with slow advance, but I hope that there will be more fast moving scenarios...

Enemy airforce is meaningless and killed as soon as they appear. Without bomber, the AI cannot do real damage.

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