Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Team Assault is a 3D turn based tactical game where players fight in close combat action at a squad level.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Zeal, Team Assault Design

IronFist00
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by IronFist00 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:55 am

First off, thanks for taking the time to try it out. Second, how would you review it overall? I was happy with the first four of my squads and how they performed, especially on Expert. They seemed to be getting good numbers in their designed areas and in game, they played well, at least imo.

Third, I was experiencing the same frustration as you are with the Artillery Squad. Nothing I changed seemed to improve the numbers from being close to each other in at least two categories. I thought it was me and my lack of experience. If you are puzzled too, then I feel a little less inept. :)

I really like having that squad in there but if it's broken, would you just say screw it and keep it in anyway or design another squad as the fifth? If the latter, which squad type?

Xerkis
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Xerkis » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:49 am

Overall, good as far as doing what they need to do, good mix of outfits, use of disciplines, etc.
I bet you see a bit of a difference in the AI game play.
:)

Don’t know if this was an oversight, but your private in your Sniper squad only has a pistol. I’d give him a rifle or sub-machinegun to protect your snipers if the enemy gets too close.

. . . . But I am still very confused about the Artillery squad. Hopefully over the next few days I can get back to it and try some more testing with that one.
:?

Xerkis
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Xerkis » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:31 pm

Did some more testing on this and found where the high Defense is coming from. And something doesn’t seem quite right.
Either with the information I’m working off of or within the game itself.

. . . . . I’ll let Laxen or someone else from Zeal to jump in here to determine which it is. :wink:

But here is the results of what I’ve found. I’m getting a Defensive score on both when attaching the Mine Laying Gear or the Medic Kit.
I have the Mine Laying Gear as being a 2 on the Aggressive side and zero in the Defensive side.
And the Medic Kit is a zero in all columns.

Let me know if I need to update the charts. I would hate to have them to be incorrect.
:)

IronFist00
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by IronFist00 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:13 am

Good find Xerkis! Thanks for looking. Oh and thanks for the sniper squad catch. That was an oversight.

Laxen
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Laxen » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:54 am

Ye, it seems as if there are some values that are wrong in the game code based on your reports. Mine laying gear should provide offensive behaviour so that that rush to the front line, deploying mines before the enemy gets there. I recall Xerkis charts being correct, so the error shouldn't lay there :)

I'll confront the programmers on the matter. Thanks!
Rasmus Davidsson
Lead Designer at ZEAL Game Studio

Laxen
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Laxen » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:53 am

Alrite! Research done!

This is the current values in the game for the upgrades discussed:
Physical endurance: Tactical +1
Medic Kit: Tactical +2, defensive +1
Mine laying gear: Offensive +1, defensive +1

This might explain why the behaviour turned out as it did for you.

We updated the stats so that Medic Kit doesn't affect behaviour at all (0, 0, 0). The other we left as they were (you might wanna update your charts Xerkis ;)).
Rasmus Davidsson
Lead Designer at ZEAL Game Studio

Xerkis
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Xerkis » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:28 am

I will update the chart a soon as I can. Will the changes you mention be in the next (first) patch?

And I was going to say, there is a good argument for the case that Mine Laying is a defensive and not a aggressive weapon anyhow. But I can see how having it a 1,1 would be a good balance for the device in the game.

Laxen
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Laxen » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:04 am

The update on the medic kit will probably be included, yes.

And yes, a mix for the mine laying gear is probably the best. The squad remain offensive or aggressive regardless of if they have the mine laying gear, but they have a lowered chance of wanting to sneak around and outflank the opponent because the mines will want to be deployed asap and where the enemy is most likely to advance.
Rasmus Davidsson
Lead Designer at ZEAL Game Studio

Xerkis
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Xerkis » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:58 am

Laxen wrote:And yes, a mix for the mine laying gear is probably the best. The squad remain offensive or aggressive regardless of if they have the mine laying gear, but they have a lowered chance of wanting to sneak around and outflank the opponent because the mines will want to be deployed asap and where the enemy is most likely to advance.
Boy that opens up a completely new discussion on Mine Laying. How does the AI determine where to lay a mine? But that is a bit off of the subject of this thread. . . . .even though it is my thread.
:wink:

Laxen
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Laxen » Tue May 01, 2012 11:09 am

Hmm. I'm not 100% sure exactly how they decide where to put the mines. But they prioritize putting them close to CPs where the enemy is suspected to pass.
Rasmus Davidsson
Lead Designer at ZEAL Game Studio

Xerkis
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Re: Proof is in the Numbers – AI Improvement

Post by Xerkis » Tue May 01, 2012 11:18 am

Laxen wrote:Hmm. I'm not 100% sure exactly how they decide where to put the mines. But they prioritize putting them close to CPs where the enemy is suspected to pass.
That would make good sense. I think all other places would be subjective to individual map layouts. . . . . . and that might be a bit difficult, especially since you don’t know how custom maps are going to be made.

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