Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, version 2021-08-31e

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design, Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Design, Panzer Corps Moderators

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, version 2021-08-31e

Post by Locarnus » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:55 pm

The Battlefield Europe mod by McGuba is a true masterpiece and significantly expands upon the traditional Panzer Corps experience!
A lot more strategic decisions are available, like prioritizing whole fronts!

With some spare time, I originally made some experimental modifications to this great mod. Trying out some stuff and adjusting some details to my personal preferences.

However the "modding of the mod" continued and imho there are some aspects which may be of interest to others as well. And perhaps may even be considered for BE itself.

So, here is a brief overview of the more significant changes I made.
Please note that the scenario changes are only made for the realistic scenario!
The other variants (realistic+, moderate, multiplayer) remain untouched by me!
It is highly recommended to start the scenario from the bottom right campaign picture (1941-1945 in the picture, 1941 - Barbarossa title when clicking on it).
Though changes to the equipment file of course also affects those.

While this is still experimental and unfinished, it already took a bit of time and thus I would appreciate any feedback.
My special thanks to McGuba for the awesome BE mod and Guille1434 for the Panzer Corps support base thread, providing unit icons for the PzC community!

Image

Image

Image



Install instructions: (only the realistic! scenario is altered, access it from the bottom right campaign picture (1941-1945 in the picture, "1941 - Barbarossa" title when clicking on it)

1. Prepare PzC for modding and update to PzC version 1.32
Follow this step-by-step guide, it also lists where to find PzC patch 1.32 and how to install it based on your version (Steam or no-Steam alternatives):
viewtopic.php?f=147&t=106604

2. Download and install Battlefield Europe version 2.3 mod with the desired optional addons (eg using JSGME, see step-by-step guide above)
The BE 2.3 version and the optional addons (eg strategic symbol and strength plate recoloring) are available in the first post of McGuba's Battlefield Europe thread:
viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985

3. Download and install the Locarnus addon to BE 2.3 (eg using JSGME, see step-by-step guide above)
The addon version is named "Battlefield Europe v2.3 Locarnus yyyy-mm-dd" and there are currently 2 versions available, see the version history below.
a) The experimental September economy rebalancing branch.
b) And the more matured August branch.

If prompted by JSGME that it modifies existing files, click "yes", since there can only be one relevant equipment.pzeqp file and so on.
Please provide feedback on this mod/addon. The PzC community is very small, especially after PzC2 released, so every voice counts a lot!
The Generic Mod Enabler should look like this when everything is done (and Panzer Corps itself should be version 1.32):

Image



Experimental September economy rebalancing branch:
2021-09-02 Download: https://bit.ly/3zEOGPq
- Hotfix, removing the additional British radar near London.
- Britain rebuilds the southern coast radars once, after 6 months of the first ones being destroyed (already in last version, forgot in patch notes)
- Rebuilding requirements a bit more robust now
- Scenario name shortened, to allow more space for individual savegame naming without having to delete some of the default text

2021-09-01
First version with economy rebalancing!, prestige is now more a "strategic industry" indicator and less of a "tactical reward", thus experimental version
- The modified scenario is now the "Barbarossa (real)" scenario and can thus be started from the bottom right campaign picture (1941-Barbarossa), thanks to help from McGuba
- The realistic+ scenario is now unmodified by the Locarnus Addon!
- If you start earlier in the campaign, select the "realistic" version after the Mediterranean.
- To double check whether you play the modified scenario, check that Danzig exists at (89,36), to the South of Gotenhafen
- 200 base prestige income added again (since that one changes based on "player prestige" difficulty setting - eg for Rommel the player gets 50% of it, thus 100 less prestige per turn)
- Reinforcement costs now 40% instead of 25%, elite reinforcements cost 90% instead of 75% of base unit cost, making reinforcements a lot more costly
- Upgrade costs 90% instead of 100%, it is now cheaper to upgrade an existing unit compared to buying a new one, even outside of upgrade groups
- In-group/path upgrades are now more of a time issue (when the unit is not at the front line), rather than a prestige issue.
- Capture rewards 30 instead of 50 for cities and 90 instead of 150 for Victory Hexes
- Surrendering units brings 40% instead of 50% of unit value
- Capturing Malta (10), Leningrad (100) and Moscow (500) brings much less extra prestige (first two already since 2021-08-26), your reward is the strategic position, not a prestige advantage
- Capturing Leningrad and Moscow has a lesser effect on Soviet Union reinforcement levels
- Submarine warfare brings somewhat less prestige for the Axis player, since the merchant ships are sunk, not captured
- Many other prestige income levels adjusted (often factor 1.5), to make up for the much more expensive unit reinforcement costs
- Difficulty levels changed, "Guderian" is now Rommel + Field Marshal, instead of the -5 turns, "Ultimate" is now Manstein + Rommel + Field Marshal. The easier difficulty levels are also adjusted to make more sense for this mod, eg more player prestige, but all have AI level 2
- EXPERIMENTAL VERSION, if you want a more matured version, use the previous one from 2021-08-31 below


More matured August branch:
2021-08-31e Download: https://bit.ly/2Xs6LC8
- Corrected an invisible road connection between Kaunas and Dvinsk

2021-08-31d Download: https://bit.ly/3AtCVvS
- Finnish Jäger 1943 and 44 movement range in ski mode corrected
- Sevastopol railway visual corrected (no functional change, just forgot to remove a track overlay in last patch)

2021-08-31c Download: https://bit.ly/3CgxtwI
- Crimea and adjacent area somewhat redesigned
- British Southern Chain Home Radars are rebuilt in adjacent positions after 6 months (once), as in the September branch
- 125 instead of 100 prestige from turn 44 for axis, to partially account for the fact that Panzer III can not be in group upgraded to Panthers
- Free Panther (turn 49) and free Me 262 (turn 79)
- Pioniere a bit cheaper, Kradschützen less range and more expensive
- Fw-200C +1 ammo, more range, can fly over land and can be used as an (inefficient) bomber, but is now much more expensive
- He 177 not in upgrade group with He 111, but historically much longer range and naval attack value, also much more expensive
- Some error corrections
- Somewhat adjusted the library, especially regarding the german upgrade groups

2021-08-31b Download: https://bit.ly/3BQqQ3X
- A bug fix concerning the Minsk pocket and an upleasant surprise
- Malta and Leningrad give 100 prestige
- But the historical 280mm railway artillery battery is available for Barbarossa
- Railway guns have 20 movement on rails
- Two more soviet 5 strength units protecting rivers from simply driving over

2021-08-31a Download: https://bit.ly/3jH9vUZ
- Malta and Leningrad give 250 prestige, closer to the original 1000. The very low prestige rewards continue to be part of the September economy rebalancing branch
- Karl-Gerät again has 2 movement and then can shoot, as in BE 2.3. But also a "movement" mode, which gives it 3 movement (4 on roads), but without being able to shoot
- Positioning of Karl-Gerät and 21cm arty changed in Barbarossa scenario, so that both can be used again to strike Brest fortress in the first turn.

2021-08-31
The final version of the "August Development", last version before economy changes
- The modified scenario is now the "Barbarossa (real)" scenario and can thus be started from the bottom right campaign picture (1941-Barbarossa), thanks to help from McGuba
- The realistic+ scenario is now unmodified by the Locarnus Addon!
- If you start earlier in the campaign, select the "realistic" version after the Mediterranean.
- To double check whether you play the modified scenario, check that Danzig exists at (89,36), to the South of Gotenhafen
- Some long range arty rebalancing (railway arty) and earlier 15cm sFH
- Nebelwerfer and Wurfrahmen arties rebalanced, Wurfrahmen ammo is only 3!
- Many additional tropical versions, mainly regarding late war airplanes, but also SdKfz 250 halftrack and Wurfrahmen
- Visual only tropical versions for some recon (only non-tracked ones) and arty units (only towed ones), for those the player can simply switch between normal and tropical version without upgrade

2021-08-26
Update based on experiences from first attempt of succession AAR:
- Starting prestige lowered by another 300 points
- Most Black Sea mines changed to moored mines, due to the lacking sea mine clearing and fleet purchasing mechanics in PzC
- Leningrad is no longer an upgrade location (same as in original BE), but it blocks the railway line to Helsinki
- Leningrad and Malta only give 100 instead of 1000 prestige upon capture (taking them gives a strategic advantage, but does not buy you many more units)
- The defeat of the Soviet Union provides 300! prestige per turn (if no partisans hold ex Soviet victory hexes), simulating the rerouting of resources to the German industry, instead of the Soviet army
- This should encourage players to try for a more historical approach (an early Sealion would do little for the German industry, but Soviet resources would help a lot)
- Kazan added again and designated as a victory hex, making the defeat of the Soviet Union a bit harder (this was done in last version, I just forgot it in the original patch notes)
- Only 3 infantry upgrade paths: Regular (including Pioniere), Jaeger and Bridge Engineers
- Pioniere defense stat lowered from 8 to 7 and late version nerfed a bit as well
- Romanian Reserves do not share the same upgrade path as Romanian regular infantry
- AT gun upgrade paths simplified again: By caliber in AT mode, by transport in Transport mode. Only 2 transport paths: Opel Blitz and "Everything else"
- Flak upgrade paths adjusted: 20mm Flak, Flakvierling, 3.7cm Flak and 88, the first 3 include the versions mounted on vehicles (eg SdKfz 7/1 for Flakvierling)
- Tropical versions for the SdKfz 7/1 and 7/2 flak vehicles and the SdKfz 251 infantry transport halftrack
- Tropical versions for the final Panzer IIIM+ and N+ versions (stats only)
- Rebalanced Flammpanzers (nerfed the II a bit and the III a lot, it was OP due to a stat error)
- Rebalanced some German artillery prices

2021-08-23
Update used for first attempt of succession AAR:
- Multipurpose aircraft (eg FW 190, Bf 110, Ju 88), beware switch cycle: main use -> alternate use -> landing for ferry -> main use (but landing for ferry step only above airports)
- New variants (eg for Ju 88, Henschel 129, Panzer IIIM tropical version)
- Switch icons for many more axis multipurpose units (eg flak, aircraft)
- Some stat rebalancing for aircraft (mainly the multipurpose ones)
- Minor error and consistency corrections
- edit: Kazan added again and designated as a victory hex, making the defeat of the Soviet Union a bit harder

2021-08-14
Last version before holidays
- Fixed my bugs that prevented upgrades in some German cities
- Minor map changes (connection Bremen-Hanover, around Linz and Lviv)
- More axis minors now have 43 and 44 infantry versions
- Some more switchable arty units have adjusted icons (gun aiming horizontally)
- Tropical versions of some additional units (Hummel, Brummbär)
- Basic german 1939 and 1942 infantry versions are switchable between normal and tropical icon (visual, no non-functional upgrade required)
- Flammpanzer III missing bigunit image added

2021-08-13
Major update
- Map errors corrected (eg no flag for Civitavecchia, wrong terrains)
- Upgrade cities reduced again, closer to original (original + Batumi, Athens, Haifa, Leningrad and various Axis minors)
- Various equipment file errors corrected
- Rate of fire adjustments for German small caliber flak, closer to original
- German recon units have rate of fire nerf (20%) in recon mode, but Defense +1 (using terrain, survival is priority), does not affect PzIIs in tank mode
- Rate of fire stat better visibility (long unit name closer to other stats in purchase and upgrade screen)
- New units (Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B on Pz III chassis, Leichtgeschütz 40 artillery for paratroopers), thanks to the unit modding community!
- Most axis minors now have 43 and 44 infantry versions
- Upgrade paths for paks and transports adjusted

2021-08-08 Had some unexpected time yesterday and did another consistency pass
- "Big gun" consistency with earlier rebalancing improved (eg StuH42 also uses 2-piece ammunition, decreasing its rate of fire)
- Close defense values for various vehicles somewhat rebalanced (especially fixed turreted ones)
- StuH42 upgrade path corrected to PzIII

2021-08-06
Probably the last version for a while
- All TDs from all nations changed into tank class for consistency (no reason why US Hellcat should have extra bonus over Sherman)
- Arty/SPArty has spotting range 2. Increasing consistency, preventing on the spot class switching for recon purposes for player and buffs the AI which is not so good at recon
- "Nasty Surprise" nerfed a bit
- Novorossyisk area changed a bit (stronger defense)
- Heavy flak now shows rate of fire for AT and AA mode in name

2021-08-04
- Corrected some errors from last version (30cm Nblwf range, missing Limassol port flag)
- Added Wurfrahmen 43 vehicle variant
- Lowered initial prestige and shifted core slot increase to second turn (allows purchase of new units, but prestige for that is not abundant)
- Changed experimental deployment zones (when from campaign path) back closer to original ones
- Changed Batumi/Poti relevance
- Shifted 4 Soviet unit positions a few hexes (non-frontline), 2 of them regarding Batumi/Poti
- Shifted 3 German frontline unit positions in Prussia, so that the tank does not start on a lake/lagoon hex

2021-07-31
Initial public release version.
Last edited by Locarnus on Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:28 pm, edited 36 times in total.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

moonwalker
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:00 am

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by moonwalker » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:26 pm

Very nice and precise work.
It would be a dream to play your mod with the giant map from hinryu70
and play the whole game with over 200 turns.

Regards
moonwalker

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by Locarnus » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:16 pm

moonwalker wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:26 pm
Very nice and precise work.
It would be a dream to play your mod with the giant map from hinryu70
and play the whole game with over 200 turns.

Regards
moonwalker
Thank you! I have seen this great map! There really needs to be an enhanced edition of PzC, doing away with all those game engine limitations and providing a more modular approach to scenario editing.

Some more info on the stat changes:
I wanted to give the player a bit more agency regarding strategic decisions, including unit production like special weapons. After all the player is now coordinating more than the military itself. But for now I mostly focused on the Axis (player) units, to keep the work manageable.

I also added the rate of fire (thus number of attack rolls) information to the unit name, eg unitname r6 means that this unit has a rate of fire of 60%, r14 would mean a rate of fire of 140%.

Changed upgrade paths, including "cross class upgrades" through switching mechanic (eg cheap, organic upgrade option between Panzer I, Panzerjäger I tank destroyer and Sturmpanzer I artillery).

a) Infantry (1939, 1942, 1943, 1944 versions for many of those), Jaegers are more expensive, especially Fallschirmjäger
- Regular: Wehrmacht Inf, Grenadiere
- Cav: Cavalry
- Jaeger: Fallschirmjäger, Brandenburger, Gebirgsjäger, Skijäger
- Engineers: Pioniere, Brückenpioniere

b) Tanks, which now includes "tank destroyers". Those are generally more expensive now (prestige cost)
- Pz I: Panzer I tank variants, Panzerjäger I tank destroyer, Bison I (Sturmpanzer I) artillery
- Pz II: Panzer II tank variants, Pz II recon variants, Marder II family, Bison II (Sturmpanzer II) and Wespe artilleries
- Pz 38(t): Panzer 38(t) tank variants, Marder III and Hetzer tank destroyers, Grille artillery and Flakpanzer 38(t) AA
- Pz III: Panzer III tank variants, StuG III assault guns (includes all TD and arty variants)
- Pz IV: Panzer IV tank variants, Nashorn and Jagdpanzer IV tank destroyers, StuH 42, StuG IV, Hummel and Brummbär assault guns/arty, as well as Möbelwagen, Ostwind, Wirbelwind flak panzers
- Pz V: Panther tanks and Jagdpanther
- Tiger I tanks
- Vk4501 chassis Ferdinand and Elefant
- Tiger II (King Tiger) and Jagdtiger in same upgrade path

c) Recon, no relevant changes beyond the Pz II recon vehicles being upgradeable through the tank class

d) Anti-tank
Self propelled anti tank units are now part of the tank class, so that they do not receive the unfair +3 initiative.
You can now upgrade along the "gun paths", eg 3.7cm Pak 36 with one transport to a 3.7cm Pak 36 with another transport.
Or you upgrade along the "transport paths", eg from a Opel Blitz towing a 3.7 cm Pak 36 to an Opel Blitz towing a 5 cm Pak 38.
The transport paths are still simplified, so Krupp Protze, SdKfz 10, SdKfz 11, horse and RSO still share the same upgrade path.
And the UE upgrade path is still lacking.

e) Artillery upgrade paths are usually based on the weapon system, except for StuGs and StuHs which are still chassis based even in artillery mode.
Artillery values were rebalanced, especially rate of fire and max strength on the higher range weapons, which are now available for purchase again (eg railway guns). Some costs changed. Also some self-propelled artillery now have a historical "tank" mode (direct fire), where they can use their big guns like the Soviets used their eg SU-152.
- leFH (light field howitzer): 10.5 cm leFH (not the 10.5 cm sK!), Wespe
- sFH (heavy field howitzer): 15cm sFH, Hummel
- Nblwf (Nebelwerfer): all towed and self propelled Nebelwerfer units
- sIG (heavy infantry gun): Bison I and II (Sturmpanzer I and II), Grille, Brummbär
This means, that eg you can cheaply upgrade from Panzer I to Bison I artillery (in tank mode), switch to Bison I artillery mode, cheaply upgrade to eg Brummbär artillery (artillery mode), switch to Brummbär artillery tank mode and then cheaply upgrade via the Panzer IV upgrade path to a Jagdpanzer IV(70) or a Wirbelwind flakpanzer. Far fewer upgrade dead ends!

f) The anti air units are somewhat rebalanced as well, smaller calibers rate of fire nerfed a bit, larger caliber rate of fire buffed a bit (from the nerfed 70% to now 80%). Putting a towed AA unit in alternate mode still makes it an AT class unit (thus providing bonus initative against attacking tanks and recon).

g) The other units are hardly changed yet and the old order and upgrade paths are still in effect.

While most of the changes only effect Axis units, some Soviet units had mostly rate of fire nerfs. Especially the early T-34 variants because of their 2-person turrets and generally bad ergonomics. As well as the units using slow loading two-part ammunition. For example the 122 and 152mm calibers. This brings them in line with the units of other nations, using similar calibers.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

PeteMitchell
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by PeteMitchell » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:16 pm

I like map adjustments to reflect the historical setup more accurately.
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

PeteMitchell
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by PeteMitchell » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:18 pm

Will changes in upgrade paths require different amounts of available prestige to be given? I understand this was also somehow linked / balanced?
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by Locarnus » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:20 am

PeteMitchell wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:16 pm
I like map adjustments to reflect the historical setup more accurately.
Perhaps I have gone a bit overboard with the rail and road connections (experimental). I tried to get a more pronounced contrast between central european connectivity (which also has downsides when defending) and eastern european conditions at that time. Though I wish we could have another road type, one which deteriorates to near uselessness during rasputitsa...
PeteMitchell wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Will changes in upgrade paths require different amounts of available prestige to be given? I understand this was also somehow linked / balanced?
A lot of stuff has been changed, many things only partly (air force nearly untouched, allied forces pretty much only rough artillery adjustments). This is still very experimental and I hesitate to dig deep into the fine tuning at this early stage.

Some changes which affect balancing in terms of fighting power and prestige:

1. Upgrade paths and opportunities
Fewer dead ends and cheaper upgrades results in better Axis units for less prestige. But on the other hand, upgrading takes time (shuffling back, upgrading, deploying to the front again). More upgrade opportunities may result in less actual fighting power at some stages. It is easy to focus too much on the upgrade minigame and get distracted from the frontlines. Also there are fewer expendable units now, which might result in a less risky (and fast) approach.
=> Though overall the effect should be positive in terms of fighting power and prestige.

2. Unit costs
While some units got cheaper (eg some arty), "elite" infantry and most tanks also got more expensive (eg by about 100 prestige).
=> Since tanks and infantry take more casualties, this should be a negative in terms of prestige and fighting power (overstrength costs).

3. Unit stat changes
- Some towed units have their movement changed and are now unable to fire after moving (17cm artillery, Karl and so on).
- Heavier artillery has been somewhat improved in terms of hard attack, but got rate of fire nerfs (eg 150mm/6inch artillery rate of fire from 90% to 80%). This provides a better distinction between the smaller caliber "suppression" role and the heavy artillery "destruction" role. Generally the similar caliber guns have been brought closer together across nations.
- More Axis self propelled artilleries (especially 150mm ones) have a direct fire mode, comparable to the Soviet SU-152. Providing them their historic effectiveness for finishing off suppressed enemy armor (not so healthy against unsuppressed ones).
- Soviet units relying on 2-part ammunition have their rate of fire nerfed. Eg SU-152, IS-2 and so on. They still hurt when they hit, but they take time to reload. While there has been an ammunition capacity nerf for eg the SU-152 and ISU-152, it is still above historically warranted levels (20 rounds historically is just not great).
- Early Soviet T-34s rate of fire nerfed (eg to 80%), due to their 2-men turrets and generally bad ergonomics, targeting and communications. The 80% is still generous for gameplay reasons.
- German Gebirgsjäger and italian infantry buffed a bit. The italian infantry buff is experimental.
=> Overall a buff for the Germans and a nerf for the Soviets. It should result in more historical outcomes on the unit level. To keep the balance on the strategic level, some of the AI nerfs can be rescinded (units holding position without fuel instead of actively fighting). Testing will show. To evaluate that, I built a little nasty surprise into the scenario (based on several historical incidents), hopefully the AI is at least somewhat able to use it.

4. Special unit availability

Quite a few nopurchase units have been reintroduced, with rebalanced stats. So far the maximum strength in combination with nopurchase and noupgrade traits have been used to keep special units from being overpowered. Imho this made the "special units" too squishy, especially on higher difficulties. The max strength restriction does not scale well.
So I removed most max strength limits and replaced them with rate of fire nerfs. Giving the units more staying power, while usually keeping the low hitting power (a bit like the soviet units which use big guns). Some units seem obscenely OP at first glance, eg buyable railway guns firing 6 hexes, especially against the UK. But once prestige is as tight as it is supposed to be, their prestige efficiency is questionable. No firing after moving, low rate of fire, low ammo capacity and so on. For impressive prestige costs.
Fallschirmjägers can be bought again, not sure how exploity that can be.
=> Imho the special units make the game more interesting and it is worth the balancing experiment. Might be overpowered, might be prestige sinks. Will be interesting to hear feedback on those.

5. Scenario changes edit: This section has been adjusted to the 2021-08-04 version.
I tried to somewhat balance between a scenario start and a campaign start.
I considerably relaxed the core slot limit (from turn 2 since 2021-08-04). Imho it is an important strategic decision if you want to put prestige into the fleet rebuilding or overstrength (not good before first winter), or new air force units, or more artillery or save it for bad times or whatever. For that reason I had to remove the 1000 prestige point loss on the end of the first turn, it would have hurt the savers too much (I lowered the initial prestige from version 2021-08-04). I tried to take away prestige from the campaign starters [...].
=> Overall the Axis from scenario start has a 300 less prestige and campaign starts get another 500 deducted). (1000 more prestige before 2021-08-04, rest of the paragraph is irrelevant as of 2021-08-04 version).


Overall in this experimental version, the Axis got perhaps buffed (edit: less so in 2021-08-04 version). Even though the higher replacement costs for some more damage prone units will be felt as casualties increase during the first winter.

Feedback is needed on how much this affects the balance of power. Imho it is most likely that this will allow the unshackling of some Soviet forces from artificial restraints. And PzC 1.32 offers many more zones than the 32 ones currently used, allowing for more scripting. Which in the long run hopefully results in a more dynamic campaign in the east.
Last edited by Locarnus on Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

PeteMitchell
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by PeteMitchell » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:25 am

This sounds all very interesting. I am really curious to hear what McGuba will think about all these ideas / suggestions!
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

jeffoot77
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by jeffoot77 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:15 am

nice improvment ! the more strategic options there are, the more awesome this mod (battlefield) is . My dream in this excellent mod is that player could attack Turkey and Spain ( to attack then gibraltar by land) , and aslo all neutral countries(like swiss) as Hitler could have planned it .
my custom single player mini-campaign in order of battle : normandie-niemen:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=374&t=79333&p=676302#p676302

McGuba
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Colonel - Fallschirmjäger
Posts: 1407
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:34 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by McGuba » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:50 pm

PeteMitchell wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:25 am
This sounds all very interesting. I am really curious to hear what McGuba will think about all these ideas / suggestions!
For sure, I will have a closer look later but for now I am busy at work for the time being.

Just out of my head now, I think some map adjustments make sense. But for example I was also thinking about adding the Curonian Lagoon just north of Königsberg (today Kaliningrad) as you did, but the problem here is as it is clearly seen in your screenshot that it would mean that some ground units would be standing on water hexes in turn 1 which looks weird/unprofessional in my view. Which is something I would like to avoid and due to the lack of room in that area to place those units elsewhere I just opted to leave it for now. The Vistula Lagoon looks nicer (between Danzig and Königsberg) and should not cause such problems so that may find its way into the next release, just as some more railway connections.

The various unit stat/upgrade changes are much more complex and may affect the well tested balance of the mod greatly. I also understand the logic behind providing more freedom to the player by allowing him to have a greater control over what to produce and in what numbers but my original idea was to find out what were the chances for an Axis victory by using more or less the same equipment that was historically available. By allowing the player to have e.g. more railroad guns or more self propelled artillery as early as in 1941 and relatively easily, would push the mod more towards fantasy and away from the historical realities in my view. But of course if this is what somebody wants, why not? The vanilla campaigns of PzC1 and PzC2 also contain a number of unhistorical things and units and most players seem to be happy about them as long as they can win more easily. It is just the thing that in this mod I tried to recreate the historical realities as much as possible within the limitations of the base game which may or may not be the right way.

Another thing I am not sure is whether if it is a good idea to move tank destroyers into the tank class. I think these are fairly well modelled in the base game and they rightfully get a bonus when on defense as these were mainly used in ambushes and/or in static defense and were less usefull in attack due to having a fixed turret. With this move you are making a significant game rule change as players are used to the current system. I am not sure if everyone will like this, to be honest.

Finally, since you are only focusing on the single player "real+" version, some changes may unbalance the multiplayer or the other versions, further complicating things. E.g. players who get used to these new rules may find themselves in trouble if they try the multiplayer version later, unless it also gets the same treatment (and testing of course, which is probably the hardest part).

So in a nutshell, all I can say is that I think it requires a lot of testing and some of the changes may not stand the test of time, but nevertheless I wish you all the best of luck with this project! :)
ImageImage
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=36969

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by Locarnus » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:08 pm

jeffoot77 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:15 am
nice improvment ! the more strategic options there are, the more awesome this mod (battlefield) is . My dream in this excellent mod is that player could attack Turkey and Spain ( to attack then gibraltar by land) , and aslo all neutral countries(like swiss) as Hitler could have planned it .
With the additional 1.32 zones, this should be somewhat possible, though there still is the issue with the amount of units. Unfortunately my time is fully taken up by the current changes, even that will take quite a while. Not to speak of all the fine tuning that went into BE itself, including multiplayer. McGuba really created a masterpiece, and I can only reiterate that it is something I would gladly pay money for in the form of an official DLC.
McGuba wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:50 pm
PeteMitchell wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:25 am
This sounds all very interesting. I am really curious to hear what McGuba will think about all these ideas / suggestions!
For sure, I will have a closer look later but for now I am busy at work for the time being.

Just out of my head now, I think some map adjustments make sense. But for example I was also thinking about adding the Curonian Lagoon just north of Königsberg (today Kaliningrad) as you did, but the problem here is as it is clearly seen in your screenshot that it would mean that some ground units would be standing on water hexes in turn 1 which looks weird/unprofessional in my view. Which is something I would like to avoid and due to the lack of room in that area to place those units elsewhere I just opted to leave it for now. The Vistula Lagoon looks nicer (between Danzig and Königsberg) and should not cause such problems so that may find its way into the next release, just as some more railway connections.

The various unit stat/upgrade changes are much more complex and may affect the well tested balance of the mod greatly. I also understand the logic behind providing more freedom to the player by allowing him to have a greater control over what to produce and in what numbers but my original idea was to find out what were the chances for an Axis victory by using more or less the same equipment that was historically available. By allowing the player to have e.g. more railroad guns or more self propelled artillery as early as in 1941 and relatively easily, would push the mod more towards fantasy and away from the historical realities in my view. But of course if this is what somebody wants, why not? The vanilla campaigns of PzC1 and PzC2 also contain a number of unhistorical things and units and most players seem to be happy about them as long as they can win more easily. It is just the thing that in this mod I tried to recreate the historical realities as much as possible within the limitations of the base game which may or may not be the right way.

Another thing I am not sure is whether if it is a good idea to move tank destroyers into the tank class. I think these are fairly well modelled in the base game and they rightfully get a bonus when on defense as these were mainly used in ambushes and/or in static defense and were less usefull in attack due to having a fixed turret. With this move you are making a significant game rule change as players are used to the current system. I am not sure if everyone will like this, to be honest.

Finally, since you are only focusing on the single player "real+" version, some changes may unbalance the multiplayer or the other versions, further complicating things. E.g. players who get used to these new rules may find themselves in trouble if they try the multiplayer version later, unless it also gets the same treatment (and testing of course, which is probably the hardest part).

So in a nutshell, all I can say is that I think it requires a lot of testing and some of the changes may not stand the test of time, but nevertheless I wish you all the best of luck with this project! :)
You are right, it looks kinda weird having that tank in the sea/lake. I'm somewhat ok with the coastal battery, worse but somewhat similar to Kronstadt in front of Leningrad. For the next version I moved the halftrack flak to Königsberg and put the Panzer in its spot. Not great, not terrible, the additional roads also partially make up for it by increasing the mobility in this sector.

Yep, the balancing went back from "fine tuned" to "prototype" for this version. Imho it is just a matter of perspective. For the first year or so BE 2.3 feels more like playing all Generals at once, with the power to assign industry output to reinforcements, but not new units. While I'm aiming more towards the replacement for the political and military "leader", with the power to create new units. Though obviously it all abides by game engine limitations. For example the player can't refuse to declare war on the US. And as soon as the first turn is done, imho it all becomes some sort of realistic fantasy. The player can decide not to invade the Soviet Union at all. Maybe not meeting KV-1 tanks or capturing Bazookas for a long time. So all the tech availability beyond the starting date would be affected by the players actions and there is a wide spectrum of reasonable approaches to those causality issues.

About the special weapons, imho those make the game more realistic. Germany historically spent a lot of resources on special projects, sometimes those were effective, but they were rarely efficient in terms of result per effort. I wanted to have those options available, but it will depend on balancing efforts to make them "interesting but probably not too efficient".

I thought a lot about the tank destroyers, especially considering the German/Soviet turretless approach and the US turreted approach compared to rather standard tanks. What I really dislike about the original PzC approach is the fact that tank destroyers get a bonus for something that is not a vehicle specific characteristic, but rather a tactical decision on how to deploy the vehicles. There is no vehicle specific reason why a tank destroyer should get an initiative bonus when attacked by a tank. This becomes even more problematic when the American turreted tank destroyers are considered. Why does a Hellcat get a bonus but a Sherman does not? Both can be used defensively from prepared positions.

My original idea was to make every tank/tank destroyer a switchable unit. In tank mode they get the normal stats. But in AT mode they get drastically reduced movement, simulating some time to setup defensive positions for which they get the initiative bonus. I'm not sure if this is worth it, the whole switching around for so many units. And then there are the units which already have 2 modes. I also considered the other way, putting tanks into the TD class, but that would make them better defensive weapons. Not sure how to procede, but I really dislike that units get arbitrary boni, which are in no way based on the characteristics of the unit itself.

I'm still working mainly on Germany, but I'll eventually spend more time on the Allied units as well. I found it quite intimidating that you have essentially 4 versions of the same scenario. Thus if I wanted to change stuff at all, I had to pick one, and it appeared to be the most complex and popular one. Especially since PzC2 only left the die hards for PzC. Not sure about the multiplayer, this experimental version is way too young for such levels of balancing and fine tuning. I hope that for the time being it is different enough to avoid confusion . The small "switch mode" symbols beneath some units may provide enough of a visual indicator that it is not the fine tuned BE itself.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

PeteMitchell
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by PeteMitchell » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:42 am

Please allow one question: have you thought of working together with McGuba, e.g. like the Pak-mod team?

Not sure two very similar mods will fly in the end...

There was also a suggestion, besides many others over the time, to add the Spanish Civil War prior to the Poland scenario?
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon

Post by Locarnus » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:36 am

PeteMitchell wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:42 am
Please allow one question: have you thought of working together with McGuba, e.g. like the Pak-mod team?

Not sure two very similar mods will fly in the end...

There was also a suggestion, besides many others over the time, to add the Spanish Civil War prior to the Poland scenario?
Collaborations/teams are imho great for long term projects. For short term experiments and trying out new stuff, imho there are advantages in having more agile "brainstorming" versions and then trying them out. I remember many ideas from different projects, where I was very sceptical when discussing them theoretically, which were amazing or at least interesting when actually using them. McGuba released his work under "attribution, non-commercial" license and thus I will follow that for my work on this mod. So perhaps some of the ideas I try out with this experimental addon do not work well for BE, but perhaps another mod could use them? With this they are out in the open and available for the whole modding community.

After so many years, BE evolved from a tinkerer and tuner mod into a fine tuned masterpiece. Imho this experimental version is like a tinkerer and tuner version of the mod, exploring options that might not fit the general taste. And perhaps some of the experimental stuff makes it into the bigger version, but of course the audience shrinks with each specialization. For example on youtube there are far more people trying higher difficulty playthroughs of the official campaign than there are BE playthroughs. (Though BE youtube videos seem to have a larger audience :wink: )

In the end, this will most likely be a fun and sometimes annoying experiment, and then after some time McGuba decides what aspects have value for the long term BE project.
Spanish Civil War sounds interesting, but I have only limited time. And I'm still focused on the whole units/upgrades/switching aspect, as well as some scenario tinkering and keeping it all at acceptable balance.

So, new version from 2021-08-04: (download link in original post)
- Corrected some errors from last version (30cm Nblwf range, missing Limassol port flag)
- Added Wurfrahmen 43 vehicle variant
- Lowered initial prestige and shifted core slot increase to second turn (allows purchase of new units, but prestige for that is not abundant)
- Changed experimental deployment zones (when from campaign path) back closer to original ones
- Changed Batumi/Poti relevance
- Shifted 4 Soviet unit positions a few hexes (non-frontline), 2 of them regarding Batumi/Poti
- Shifted 3 German frontline unit positions in Prussia, so that the tank does not start on a lake/lagoon hex
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

PeteMitchell
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2069
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon new version 2021-08-04

Post by PeteMitchell » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:25 am

Thanks, makes a lot of sense and sounds great!
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus experimental addon new version 2021-08-04

Post by Locarnus » Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:35 pm

new version from 2021-08-06:
Probably the last version for a while
- All TDs from all nations changed into tank class for consistency (no reason why US Hellcat should have extra bonus over Sherman)
- Arty/SPArty has spotting range 2. Increasing consistency, preventing class switching for recon purposes for player and buffs the AI which is not so good at recon
- "Nasty Surprise" nerfed a bit
- Novorossyisk area changed a bit (stronger defense)
- Heavy flak now shows rate of fire for AT and AA mode in name

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqw1duqk4eb86 ... 06.7z?dl=0


I removed the "experimental" from the thread title, since at this version the balance and consistency is quite good afaik.
There are still experimental aspects, like the buffed italian infantry or the special unit availability. But overall the prestige situation in the realistic + scenario, which is the one that is changed by this addon, is quite tight and thus limits any exploit potential.

I would love to hear some feedback. Eg testing the first 6-12 turns.
The cross class upgrade possibilities give quite a few new options and make the older but experienced tank units more valuable (less prone to sacrificing).
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

goose_2
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Tournament Organizer of the Year 2017
Posts: 3080
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:22 am
Location: Winterset, Iowa
Contact:

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, new version 2021-08-06

Post by goose_2 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:49 pm

wow the modder world is the future of Panzer Corps. This game will keep me in the pink for the rest of my life.
goose_2
Lutheran Multiplayer Tournament Organizer. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRHQShaOv5PWoer6cP1syLQ

criscarlucci
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:01 am
Location: Italy

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, new version 2021-08-06

Post by criscarlucci » Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:32 am

Hi Locarnus... Simply question by a new gamer 😁

I have to use your MOD over the BE v.2.3 or on a vanilla version of PzC?
Thanks
Si vis pacem... para bellum

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, new version 2021-08-06

Post by Locarnus » Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:58 pm

goose_2 wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:49 pm
wow the modder world is the future of Panzer Corps. This game will keep me in the pink for the rest of my life.
Yep, unfortunately modding (making the mods and installing mods) is a bit cumbersome. I made a new step-by-step guide for it, since the video from PzCorps Mods is a bit outdated (using only patch 1.31): viewtopic.php?f=147&t=106604&p=937685#p937685
criscarlucci wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:32 am
Hi Locarnus... Simply question by a new gamer 😁

I have to use your MOD over the BE v.2.3 or on a vanilla version of PzC?
Thanks
Over BE 2.3. I just wrote a more detailed guide on how to prepare PanzerCorps for modding:
viewtopic.php?f=147&t=106604&p=937685#p937685

Then install BE 2.3 and the desired optional mods (I personally use BlueAxisSymbols and PG Style Strength Plates as shown in the screenshot in the updated install instructions, see original post of this thread).
On top of that, install BE 2.3 Locarnus yyyy-mm-dd from the link in the original post of this thread or the link below:


New Version:

2021-08-08 I had some unexpected time yesterday and did another consistency pass
- "Big gun" consistency with earlier rebalancing improved (eg StuH42 also uses 2-piece ammunition, decreasing its rate of fire)
- Close defense values for various vehicles somewhat rebalanced (especially "fixed turreted" ones)
- StuH42 upgrade path corrected to PzIII

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oc91dyb1k0txy ... 08.7z?dl=0
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, new version 2021-08-13

Post by Locarnus » Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:28 am

New Version 2021-08-13
Major update
- Map errors corrected (eg no flag for Civitavecchia, wrong terrains)
- Upgrade cities reduced again, closer to original (original + Batumi, Athens, Haifa, Leningrad and various Axis minors)
- Various equipment file errors corrected
- Rate of fire adjustments for German small caliber flak, closer to original
- German recon units have rate of fire nerf (20%) in recon mode, but Defense +1 (using terrain, survival is priority), does not affect PzIIs in tank mode
- Rate of fire stat better visibility (long unit name closer to other stats in purchase and upgrade screen)
- New units (Sturm-Infanteriegeschütz 33B on Pz III chassis, Leichtgeschütz 40 artillery for paratroopers), thanks to the unit modding community!
- Most axis minors now have 43 and 44 infantry versions
- Upgrade paths for paks and transports adjusted

Download: https://bit.ly/3xKlIfs
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

faos333
Major - Jagdpanther
Major - Jagdpanther
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, new version 2021-08-13

Post by faos333 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:21 am

Good work, now is needed some testing, has anybody tried this add-on yet?
Battlefield Europe get the most from Panzer Corps 8)
Download the new 2.2 Mod here http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985

Locarnus
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Battlefield Europe v2.3: Locarnus addon, last version 2021-08-14

Post by Locarnus » Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:03 pm

faos333 wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:21 am
Good work, now is needed some testing, has anybody tried this add-on yet?
I started playing for an AAR yesterday, but instead I made a last updated before going on holidays. Especially fixing my bugs which prevent upgrades in some German cities.

The plan was to start a kind of "succession" type AAR, where someone plays for a few turns and then someone else picks it up from there.
For example, I wanted to start and play 6 turns, write a short AAR about those first 6 turns and then upload the savegame at the end of Axis turn 6 (so the next player can analyse the situation and the AI response, to get into the game).
In terms of roleplay, this would have been a leadership change after 3 months :) .

The advantage of such a succession type of game would be:
1. Every new player needs to deal with the situation left behind by the previous players. That is especially interesting with respect to strategic decisions.
2. No one has to commit for a long playthrough, but everyone can experience a part of it (either by playing or by reading others experiences).
3. Since the savegames every 6 turns would be public in the AAR, it is possible for AAR readers to really analyse the situation, instead of being restricted to images and text of the written AAR.
4. Or even two players doing the same 6 turn interval and then discussing tactics and strategies.

Unfortunately I had to prioritize the patch below, but if anyone is interested in starting such a succession AAR, I would be more than happy to take over some 6 turn interval after the holidays.

2021-08-14
Last version before holidays
- Fixed my bugs that prevented upgrades in some German cities
- Minor map changes (connection Bremen-Hanover, around Linz and Lviv)
- More axis minors now have 43 and 44 infantry versions
- Some more switchable arty units have adjusted icons (gun aiming horizontally)
- Tropical versions of some additional units (Hummel, Brummbär)
- Basic german 1939 and 1942 infantry versions are switchable between normal and tropical icon (visual, no non-functional upgrade required)
- Flammpanzer III missing bigunit image added

https://bit.ly/2VTu2MM
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)

Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Corps : Scenario Design”