Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Another fantastic piece of work, thanks a lot flak!.
I am interested on those "Stug IIIG concrete", they added concrete panels on the sides of the vehicles?, I mean those are historical facts?. Pardon my ignorance but I admit ignorance on that subject
Regards.
Akkula.
PS: Please check the second link, it belongs to the first part of the stugs.
I am interested on those "Stug IIIG concrete", they added concrete panels on the sides of the vehicles?, I mean those are historical facts?. Pardon my ignorance but I admit ignorance on that subject
Regards.
Akkula.
PS: Please check the second link, it belongs to the first part of the stugs.
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
-
- Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:42 am
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
I'm pretty sure these concrete Stugs are concrete coloured Stugs.
Then again, I have read that the British experimented with concrete armour on ships - it wasn't very good because it was too brittle as applied - and they had better success with a mix of gravel in bitumen or tar (think black-top roads). That was a apparently a bit more effective as the larger stones deflected fragments and broke up lighter shots while the bitumen gave it a bit of resilience, so if it failed in one place you tended to lose a bit of armour rather than the whole lot.
There were some emergency armoured vehicles made using concrete (too heavy and not very protective) and I think some gravel filled bodies. Coarse gravel and stones should be a reasonably effective barrier to lighter bullets if encased in steel - lots of hard sharp corners, a capacity to move around and further disperse energy and a backing that can deform to block fragments and soak up any remaining energy by deforming. The bitumen bound armour should be reasonably similar. Major drawbacks include the weight and unbound gravel could make an HE shell hit worse by providing plenty of fragments to fling around.
Why armour anything with road materials? Because at the time, there was a lot of heavy equipment sitting in France, so using available steel to make ships and replacement tanks was more important than up-armouring merchant vessels and obsolete vehicles. The road building industry was pretty strong, so it could churn out this stuff fast enough fill the gap and at least some of the options were of some use.
Then again, I have read that the British experimented with concrete armour on ships - it wasn't very good because it was too brittle as applied - and they had better success with a mix of gravel in bitumen or tar (think black-top roads). That was a apparently a bit more effective as the larger stones deflected fragments and broke up lighter shots while the bitumen gave it a bit of resilience, so if it failed in one place you tended to lose a bit of armour rather than the whole lot.
There were some emergency armoured vehicles made using concrete (too heavy and not very protective) and I think some gravel filled bodies. Coarse gravel and stones should be a reasonably effective barrier to lighter bullets if encased in steel - lots of hard sharp corners, a capacity to move around and further disperse energy and a backing that can deform to block fragments and soak up any remaining energy by deforming. The bitumen bound armour should be reasonably similar. Major drawbacks include the weight and unbound gravel could make an HE shell hit worse by providing plenty of fragments to fling around.
Why armour anything with road materials? Because at the time, there was a lot of heavy equipment sitting in France, so using available steel to make ships and replacement tanks was more important than up-armouring merchant vessels and obsolete vehicles. The road building industry was pretty strong, so it could churn out this stuff fast enough fill the gap and at least some of the options were of some use.
-
- Major-General - Jagdtiger
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Indeed, the German crews applied concrete with "ballistic" shapes in the front superstructure of StuG III vehicles, they named it "Zementpanzerung". I suppose that they started to do this when they found that the front shape of the StuG III had a convenient shape to apply the concrete without it falling down before hardening. Here is a real vehicle image and some two model photos where you can see the way it was applied...
- Attachments
-
- StuG III Concrete-02.jpg (92.86 KiB) Viewed 6047 times
-
- StuG III Concrete.jpg (91.99 KiB) Viewed 6047 times
-
- StuG III Concrete Photo.jpg (20.56 KiB) Viewed 6047 times
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Hi guys, Thanks Akkula, I will check that link. I have some references which I attach (some of them) as soon as I can get them out of my files. Later....................
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:42 am
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Thanks for the info and photos.guille1434 wrote:Indeed, the German crews applied concrete with "ballistic" shapes in the front superstructure of StuG III vehicles
Even if concrete isn't very good armour, it only has to stop one critical hit to be useful. If it was my Stug I'd be using it.
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Thanks for the info everyone. Quite interesting invention by the Germans indeed.
Best regards.
Akkula.
Best regards.
Akkula.
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Here is a shot of some Italian Semoventes I have been working on. I did the whole series. You can see the vanilla game unit in one of the pictures by comparison and also a vanilla version with my wheels and treads replacing the darker set in the game. I will be putting them with masks on the forum soon after I finish going over them again.
- Attachments
-
- SEMOVENTE UNITS.png (53.41 KiB) Viewed 5846 times
-
- 3 Amigos.png (52.75 KiB) Viewed 5853 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Major-General - Jagdtiger
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
More detailed trackwork is always a very good thing! Thanks Flak!!
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Here is a very well done Stug III with concrete armor.
- Attachments
-
- StugIII-2.jpg (109.82 KiB) Viewed 5792 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Here are some Stug III versions that "might have been". Fantasy of course, but theoretical, maybe. Jgdpzr IV L48 superstructure on Stug IIIG Chassis and running gear. What a combination that would have been.
- Attachments
-
- Stug IIIH Thoma.png (35.74 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
-
- Stug IIIH.png (34.37 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
-
- Stug IIIHX.png (34.27 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
And a couple more of Stug IIIH versions................
- Attachments
-
- Stug IIIH SchurtzenX.png (37.19 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
-
- Stug IIIH Schurtzen.png (37.27 KiB) Viewed 5774 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Wow!, They look beautiful.
So it seems the Stug IIIG time has arrive!.
Great work Flak!.
So it seems the Stug IIIG time has arrive!.
Great work Flak!.
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Here are some Stug IIIG modifications I am working on (I am basically reworking the Stug units of the game pretty much). There is the "late" version with the saukopf and the "early/mid" versions with the angular mantle. Kinda hard to tell on these little units, but the difference is there. Also there is an "armored" version with track links on the sides and upper hull front of the midsection and "winterketten" tracks for those cold Russian winters. There will be a lot of versions (boring to some, but interesting to others perhaps). The versions will be mid, late, Stu42 based on Stug F and also Stug G, armored with additional track armor, schurtzen, winter ketten, etc. and some others. There is even an rebuilt Stug III F reworked from the Panzer School (from a reference picture). You may in the lower hull sides between the tracks on some of the armored track versions, there are two sets of tracks added for armor as they used to put on the Stugs.
One word of advice on skinning these units. To get details that stand out and show up, you really need to adjust the colors in the SECONDARY (TRACKS) and TERTIARY (ARMAMENT) adjustments of DCS. That is because the details get hidden with some of the skins colors. I use the Secondary adjustment for tracks and the Tertiary adjustment for other stuff like the track armor on the hull and turrets so that they will have another color besides the Secondary color adjustment. If you just mask the tracks in black, they do not show up much with camo.
Also working on Stug IV versions and Pzr III and IV with some of the same details and changes.
One word of advice on skinning these units. To get details that stand out and show up, you really need to adjust the colors in the SECONDARY (TRACKS) and TERTIARY (ARMAMENT) adjustments of DCS. That is because the details get hidden with some of the skins colors. I use the Secondary adjustment for tracks and the Tertiary adjustment for other stuff like the track armor on the hull and turrets so that they will have another color besides the Secondary color adjustment. If you just mask the tracks in black, they do not show up much with camo.
Also working on Stug IV versions and Pzr III and IV with some of the same details and changes.
- Attachments
-
- Stug IIIG Mid armor.png (33.65 KiB) Viewed 5744 times
-
- Stug IIIG Late armor winter ketten.png (32.62 KiB) Viewed 5744 times
-
- Stug IIIG Mid winter ketten.png (33.11 KiB) Viewed 5744 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Brigadier-General - 15 cm Nblwf 41
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:42 am
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Excellent picture. And very neatly applied concrete - they either had a former builder or plasterer in the crew or this was a well-organised process.flakfernrohr wrote:Here is a very well done Stug III with concrete armor.
I like the Stug3H concept - a bit like the Panzer IVK in that it is a good idea that probably would have worked quite well.
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
I have been making armor units lately but am way behind on masks right now. Still wrapping up some units, but the bulk are done. These include Stug III, Pzr III, Stug IV and Italian armor. When done it will have probably almost 100 units. I have been working on armor since my main computer (full of trucks) went down and is still in the shop. I do hope I did not lose much of them as I had some I was really proud of (reworks and originals). I noticed that when I make a unit in GIMP, some of the units scaled (resized) down (to make the bottom two on the unit icon) still do not come out as large as others when they pop up in DCS. I have not figured this out. But nevertheless the unit that is skinned/camo'd, etc. is to scale and the right size in the game play. I was worried that the Italian tanks I made and the Semovente units would be too small, but I scaled/sized them to the existing Italian units in the game when I was making them. Then I found a reference picture (original) made by the Italian engineers working on the P43 tank prototype (it is attached to this post) which compares the Italian tanks in size to a Panther V. From the sized unit comparison chart I made from units in the game, my Italian units seem to be right on spot. One word about the Italian P43 Bis, I have few references to work with but I made a unit based on the best images I found (there are NOT any pictures). The mock up wooden models have a different looking rear deck, so I think I will probably make BOTH versions. You will see the first one in this post.
- Attachments
-
- P40-P43-MKV mockup.jpg (33.18 KiB) Viewed 5603 times
-
- SIZE COMPARE.png (133.99 KiB) Viewed 5607 times
-
- P40-P43 to MKV.jpg (57.47 KiB) Viewed 5607 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
And here is the version of the P43 Bis Italian tank on which I based the first unit I made.
- Attachments
-
- P43 Bis.jpg (86.69 KiB) Viewed 5603 times
-
- P43 Bis (2).jpg (75.35 KiB) Viewed 5603 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Here are some Italian units I have been working on. I will be also doing the anti-tank AND artillery versions of the Semonvente "Stug" versions that were produced (four models). That way a person can switch from AT to ATY with them. Also wrapping up a rework of all the Stug models with variations, masks, etc. Stay tuned. Making progress gradually.
Of these in this post, the Armor set 2 has the Semonvente 90-53 and Semonvente 149-40 versions in AT and ATY. Armor set 1 has M13-40, M14-41, M15-42, P40 75/34, P43 BIS in both prototype versions of the rear deck and hull.
Of these in this post, the Armor set 2 has the Semonvente 90-53 and Semonvente 149-40 versions in AT and ATY. Armor set 1 has M13-40, M14-41, M15-42, P40 75/34, P43 BIS in both prototype versions of the rear deck and hull.
- Attachments
-
- Italian armor 2.png (81.03 KiB) Viewed 5412 times
-
- Italian Armor 1.png (77.45 KiB) Viewed 5478 times
Last edited by flakfernrohr on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
They are amazing!.
Great work!.
So, it seems it is time to expand the Italian armor rooster now
Great work!.
So, it seems it is time to expand the Italian armor rooster now
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
Modern Conflicts (v1.95): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
-
- Major-General - Jagdtiger
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Flak: All the shown units, are outstanding pieces of work, with excellent detailing... But I think the icon for the Semovente da 90/53 in artillery mode show an excessive gun barrel elevation... There are not many data sources, but I could find that the max elevation of its gun was 24º
-
- Colonel - Ju 88A
- Posts: 1572
- Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow
Hi guys, thank you for the feedback. I changed the image for the Semovente 90-53 ATY version in the thread with the image. I really don't know what I was thinking when I made that unit with such a high elevation. I guess I was just imagining a 90-53 gun with all its power (more than an 88mm I have read).
Anyway here are some of the variations on the P43 Italian tank I have found........so I made all the versions (with a P40 75-34 image for comparison). "Data for P43 (1st proposal, early 1943): 30t, 420hp, 40km/h, 75/34, front armour 80-100mm, side armour 50mm. Data for P43bis (2nd proposal, mid 1943): 90/42 gun, other variations unknown. 150 ordered."
The long barrel version is a drawing I saw in the internet with larger bogie wheels and a L71 90mm gun. Fantasy of course, but a neat looking tank in any case. One that almost was.
Anyway here are some of the variations on the P43 Italian tank I have found........so I made all the versions (with a P40 75-34 image for comparison). "Data for P43 (1st proposal, early 1943): 30t, 420hp, 40km/h, 75/34, front armour 80-100mm, side armour 50mm. Data for P43bis (2nd proposal, mid 1943): 90/42 gun, other variations unknown. 150 ordered."
The long barrel version is a drawing I saw in the internet with larger bogie wheels and a L71 90mm gun. Fantasy of course, but a neat looking tank in any case. One that almost was.
- Attachments
-
- P43 Prototype.png (87.04 KiB) Viewed 5384 times
-
- P40-P43 proto scale.png (69.66 KiB) Viewed 5412 times
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?