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Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:17 am
by Akkula
Another fantastic piece of work, thanks a lot flak!. 8)

I am interested on those "Stug IIIG concrete", they added concrete panels on the sides of the vehicles?, I mean those are historical facts?. Pardon my ignorance but I admit ignorance on that subject :cry:

Regards.
Akkula.

PS: Please check the second link, it belongs to the first part of the stugs.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:07 am
by captainjack
I'm pretty sure these concrete Stugs are concrete coloured Stugs.

Then again, I have read that the British experimented with concrete armour on ships - it wasn't very good because it was too brittle as applied - and they had better success with a mix of gravel in bitumen or tar (think black-top roads). That was a apparently a bit more effective as the larger stones deflected fragments and broke up lighter shots while the bitumen gave it a bit of resilience, so if it failed in one place you tended to lose a bit of armour rather than the whole lot.

There were some emergency armoured vehicles made using concrete (too heavy and not very protective) and I think some gravel filled bodies. Coarse gravel and stones should be a reasonably effective barrier to lighter bullets if encased in steel - lots of hard sharp corners, a capacity to move around and further disperse energy and a backing that can deform to block fragments and soak up any remaining energy by deforming. The bitumen bound armour should be reasonably similar. Major drawbacks include the weight and unbound gravel could make an HE shell hit worse by providing plenty of fragments to fling around.

Why armour anything with road materials? Because at the time, there was a lot of heavy equipment sitting in France, so using available steel to make ships and replacement tanks was more important than up-armouring merchant vessels and obsolete vehicles. The road building industry was pretty strong, so it could churn out this stuff fast enough fill the gap and at least some of the options were of some use.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:38 am
by guille1434
Indeed, the German crews applied concrete with "ballistic" shapes in the front superstructure of StuG III vehicles, they named it "Zementpanzerung". I suppose that they started to do this when they found that the front shape of the StuG III had a convenient shape to apply the concrete without it falling down before hardening. Here is a real vehicle image and some two model photos where you can see the way it was applied...

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:52 pm
by flakfernrohr
Hi guys, Thanks Akkula, I will check that link. I have some references which I attach (some of them) as soon as I can get them out of my files. Later....................

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:57 pm
by captainjack
guille1434 wrote:Indeed, the German crews applied concrete with "ballistic" shapes in the front superstructure of StuG III vehicles
Thanks for the info and photos.
Even if concrete isn't very good armour, it only has to stop one critical hit to be useful. If it was my Stug I'd be using it.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:34 pm
by Akkula
Thanks for the info everyone. Quite interesting invention by the Germans indeed.

Best regards.
Akkula.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:53 am
by flakfernrohr
Here is a shot of some Italian Semoventes I have been working on. I did the whole series. You can see the vanilla game unit in one of the pictures by comparison and also a vanilla version with my wheels and treads replacing the darker set in the game. I will be putting them with masks on the forum soon after I finish going over them again.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:21 am
by guille1434
More detailed trackwork is always a very good thing! Thanks Flak!!

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:46 pm
by flakfernrohr
Here is a very well done Stug III with concrete armor.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:33 pm
by flakfernrohr
Here are some Stug III versions that "might have been". Fantasy of course, but theoretical, maybe. Jgdpzr IV L48 superstructure on Stug IIIG Chassis and running gear. What a combination that would have been.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:35 pm
by flakfernrohr
And a couple more of Stug IIIH versions................

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:17 am
by Akkula
Wow!, They look beautiful.
So it seems the Stug IIIG time has arrive!.

Great work Flak!.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:27 am
by flakfernrohr
Here are some Stug IIIG modifications I am working on (I am basically reworking the Stug units of the game pretty much). There is the "late" version with the saukopf and the "early/mid" versions with the angular mantle. Kinda hard to tell on these little units, but the difference is there. Also there is an "armored" version with track links on the sides and upper hull front of the midsection and "winterketten" tracks for those cold Russian winters. There will be a lot of versions (boring to some, but interesting to others perhaps). The versions will be mid, late, Stu42 based on Stug F and also Stug G, armored with additional track armor, schurtzen, winter ketten, etc. and some others. There is even an rebuilt Stug III F reworked from the Panzer School (from a reference picture). You may in the lower hull sides between the tracks on some of the armored track versions, there are two sets of tracks added for armor as they used to put on the Stugs.

One word of advice on skinning these units. To get details that stand out and show up, you really need to adjust the colors in the SECONDARY (TRACKS) and TERTIARY (ARMAMENT) adjustments of DCS. That is because the details get hidden with some of the skins colors. I use the Secondary adjustment for tracks and the Tertiary adjustment for other stuff like the track armor on the hull and turrets so that they will have another color besides the Secondary color adjustment. If you just mask the tracks in black, they do not show up much with camo.

Also working on Stug IV versions and Pzr III and IV with some of the same details and changes.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:42 am
by captainjack
flakfernrohr wrote:Here is a very well done Stug III with concrete armor.
Excellent picture. And very neatly applied concrete - they either had a former builder or plasterer in the crew or this was a well-organised process.

I like the Stug3H concept - a bit like the Panzer IVK in that it is a good idea that probably would have worked quite well.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:29 pm
by flakfernrohr
I have been making armor units lately but am way behind on masks right now. Still wrapping up some units, but the bulk are done. These include Stug III, Pzr III, Stug IV and Italian armor. When done it will have probably almost 100 units. I have been working on armor since my main computer (full of trucks) went down and is still in the shop. I do hope I did not lose much of them as I had some I was really proud of (reworks and originals). I noticed that when I make a unit in GIMP, some of the units scaled (resized) down (to make the bottom two on the unit icon) still do not come out as large as others when they pop up in DCS. I have not figured this out. But nevertheless the unit that is skinned/camo'd, etc. is to scale and the right size in the game play. I was worried that the Italian tanks I made and the Semovente units would be too small, but I scaled/sized them to the existing Italian units in the game when I was making them. Then I found a reference picture (original) made by the Italian engineers working on the P43 tank prototype (it is attached to this post) which compares the Italian tanks in size to a Panther V. From the sized unit comparison chart I made from units in the game, my Italian units seem to be right on spot. One word about the Italian P43 Bis, I have few references to work with but I made a unit based on the best images I found (there are NOT any pictures). The mock up wooden models have a different looking rear deck, so I think I will probably make BOTH versions. You will see the first one in this post.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:57 pm
by flakfernrohr
And here is the version of the P43 Bis Italian tank on which I based the first unit I made.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:22 am
by flakfernrohr
Here are some Italian units I have been working on. I will be also doing the anti-tank AND artillery versions of the Semonvente "Stug" versions that were produced (four models). That way a person can switch from AT to ATY with them. Also wrapping up a rework of all the Stug models with variations, masks, etc. Stay tuned. Making progress gradually.

Of these in this post, the Armor set 2 has the Semonvente 90-53 and Semonvente 149-40 versions in AT and ATY. Armor set 1 has M13-40, M14-41, M15-42, P40 75/34, P43 BIS in both prototype versions of the rear deck and hull.

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:26 pm
by Akkula
They are amazing!.
Great work!.

So, it seems it is time to expand the Italian armor rooster now :P

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:13 pm
by guille1434
Flak: All the shown units, are outstanding pieces of work, with excellent detailing... But I think the icon for the Semovente da 90/53 in artillery mode show an excessive gun barrel elevation... There are not many data sources, but I could find that the max elevation of its gun was 24ยบ

Re: Some new icons if you want them, more to follow

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:02 pm
by flakfernrohr
Hi guys, thank you for the feedback. I changed the image for the Semovente 90-53 ATY version in the thread with the image. I really don't know what I was thinking when I made that unit with such a high elevation. I guess I was just imagining a 90-53 gun with all its power (more than an 88mm I have read).

Anyway here are some of the variations on the P43 Italian tank I have found........so I made all the versions (with a P40 75-34 image for comparison). "Data for P43 (1st proposal, early 1943): 30t, 420hp, 40km/h, 75/34, front armour 80-100mm, side armour 50mm. Data for P43bis (2nd proposal, mid 1943): 90/42 gun, other variations unknown. 150 ordered."


The long barrel version is a drawing I saw in the internet with larger bogie wheels and a L71 90mm gun. Fantasy of course, but a neat looking tank in any case. One that almost was.