Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.0

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:21 am

So it seems there is a general demand here for the Graf.
By the way, in the PzCps current rules, STR aircraft can't be supplied by carriers. So in essence the only planes that can be supplied are FTRs and TACs
Oh, thanks, I did not know about this. It does make some sense. So maybe I should still add it. I just do not want to imagine all those evil and unhistorical things the potential players will do with the Graf Zep once they put their hands on it. :evil:

Looks like a great mod. Me and Juno are ready to test play it in Multiplayer
While theoretically playable in multi, I made this mod for Axis single player only. Currently no messages would appear for the Allied player and the Axis are massively outnumbered by the Allies (as historically), so it would be quite unbalanced in multiplayer game. Later I might try convert it to an allied campaign and / or to multiplayer, but it will not happen for some time, I am afraid. It would require a complete overhaul of the scripts, and it has a very complex scripting with more than a hundred script lines (it might well be the most complex scenario made to this date). In my opinion any balanced multiplayer conversion would render it unhistorical due to the fact that Allies produced many times more weapons and equipment than the Axis in ww2. And I am a fan of historical accuracy, so...

Although I like multiplayer games sometimes (I used to play a lot of Wesnoth before I started this - THAT was fun, it is amazing that most people in the world just cannot accept loss, always blaming their defeat on the dice rolls at best :D ), my main interest is scripting, especially making the AI behave in a human like way in certain situations. Another fun thing is to figure out how the players will try to beat the AI and prepare the AI to ruin as many human plans as possible without cheating.
I think I am a very bad person. :wink:
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:46 am

I hear you are challenging my War of the World (+v1.1) to a scripting war. Don't forget that mine has nearly 50 scripts for prestige, 10 for the Axis AI issue of invading USSR turn 1, and hordes of other stuff (2 AI sides, new units etc.)

Bring it on! :twisted:

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:18 am

Uh, I have to apologize. For a brief moment I forgot that War of the World is looking on the horizon as well. It must have been due to the fog of war in my mind. Obviously nothing can be compared to the complexity and originality of your mod. Also, the setting of your mod is the whole world while mine is limited to Europe and North Africa, so much smaller in scale.

I surrender unconditionally.
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LandMarine47
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by LandMarine47 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:43 am

But in retrospect, your mod does focus on next to every historical element in Europe. Maybe after this you can make a "Battlefield Pacific!" Maybe even directly challenge BNC with Battlefield Europe: World War I Edition :shock:

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:06 am

McGuba wrote: I surrender unconditionally.
Well, that was a short war! (6hrs, 20mins).

LandMarine, you will regret giving him ideas to challenge me with! I have now ordered 50 divisions of stormtroopers over to your house, ready to annoy you until you surrender to me as well!

I have noticed that people like stealing my good ideas! (This stole Panzer Fury, naturesheva stole War of the World, and now people plan to steal WWI!) My suggestion is to not try steal any more of my planned ideas, such as Napoleonic campaigns and a 1914-45. [The only thing I am currently revealing about my next project is 2 words: "Project IV" - guess what it is!]

Bring on Graf Zeppelin - I added it to appear July 1945. Quite late to be truly useful to anything other than the invasion of America, but could be edited so that other ideas work as well (maybe '43 deploy on 1 - I like that one)


- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:50 am

Well, that was a short war! (6hrs, 20mins).
You can easily call it a Blitzkireg, masterfully planned and conducted. (And it all happened while I was sleeping! Too bad that I missed all those spectacular artillery barrages.)


Bring on Graf Zeppelin - I added it to appear July 1945. Quite late to be truly useful to anything other than the invasion of America, but could be edited so that other ideas work as well (maybe '43 deploy on 1 - I like that one)
Yeah, I was thinking about a 1943 appearance. Wiki says it was meant to be ready to full service by winter 43-44, had its construction not been stopped. However, that late deployement would certainly limit its usefulness.
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:11 am

If you're making it appear half-made, why not early 43?

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

iceFlame
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by iceFlame » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:21 am

McGuba wrote:Still, it seems to me that it was just a make-shift solution, why there are no landing gears visible?
It was launched with the gear up to reduce drag. Also, while we're on the subject, the Ju 87C was designed with folding wings to facilitate storage and loading onto carrier elevators. Here's a look at the 'folded wings' design and a 'C' just after launch.

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BiteNibbleChomp wrote:Bring on Graf Zeppelin...
Yeah, let's do it. It's a guilty pleasure, but I can't resist... :twisted:
McGuba wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about a 1943 appearance. Wiki says it was meant to be ready to full service by winter 43-44, had its construction not been stopped. However, that late deployement would certainly limit its usefulness.
More toys to play with. Hooray! :D
BiteNibbleChomp wrote:If you're making it appear half-made, why not early 43?
Yeah, if it's not complete that would certainly follow the historical timeline. Also, it allows the player to decide if he wants to commit resources to bring her up to full strength or use the limited prestige elsewhere. More playing options if she's introduced early...
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floplop
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by floplop » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:32 am

whats the estimated time this thing is released?

LandMarine47
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by LandMarine47 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:44 pm

A late 1943/44 appearance would really help with a possible invasion of Britain, or support the Germans at Leiningrad. Maybe even use them and bomb Gibraltar

Gibraltar should really be an Objective, as without it, there no way the Italian and German Navy could link up.

As for BNC, your Stormtroopers cannot defeat the might of the Stug armed with a short barrel :twisted:

iceFlame
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by iceFlame » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:04 am

Just thought I'd mention a couple more interesting things about the Ju 87C...

In addition to the folding wings, the modifications also included jettisonable landing gear, a quick dump fuel mechanism and a pair of inflatable air bags in each wing to keep her afloat in the sea for up to three days. They also came with a life raft and emergency survival supplies so the crew could hold out and (hopefully) be rescued.

Here's a quote from "German Aircraft of the Second World War" by J.R. Smith and Anthony Kay:

"The Ju 87C was a special conversion of the dive bomber intended for operation from the aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin, which was under construction at Kiel. A batch of Ju 87C-10 pre-production aircraft left the Weser factory during the summer of 1939. This variant was fitted with a jettsonable undercarriage, was stressed for catapulting and carried an arrestor hook forward of the tailwheel."

From what I understand, the gear was fitted with explosive bolts to allow for a soft belly landing.

Getting back to the earlier discussion on Naval Theory, I think it fair to say that while the Germans did not invest resources to develop a specific 'Carrier Doctrine,' they did in fact develop, modify and extensively test specific air models for carrier operations. (e.g. the Bf 109T and Ju 87C). Hence the 'C' is rightly nicknamed the 'Carrier-Stuka.'
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:31 am

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Ju-87C. Still it makes me think how many projects they had and how few of those materialized as a finished and effective weapon system on time to make a difference. And how much money, energy, and resources they spent on all these projects for little to nothing to gain. Ironically, in many cases, it was not even Germany who benefited from the results of these projects, but their enemies, who captured and put then to their own use after the war.

Gibraltar should really be an Objective, as without it, there no way the Italian and German Navy could link up.
It cannot be as there are no more free AI zones to make it like that. But, it can be taken, if not easily, and that would deny the Allies from using it. In effect, if the player can capture Gibraltar or maintain a naval presence in the sorrounding waters the Americans cannot land in Algeria, only in Marokko. Also, the American warships would not enter the med in 1943. However, taking it after after these events would gain little. The problem with an operation aimed at capturing Gibraltar is that it lies quite far from the Axis bases, and from the main objectives and the "heat" of the battle in general. As opposed to Malta, for example. So, in order to take it the player has to redeploy a substantial amount of units for a substantial amount of time, which could be used elsewhere more effectively in the meantime. Actually, an attack on Gibraltar would pretty much re-focus the Axis war efforts, and the Allies would make use of it. By the way, if we are at naval warfare I share a few changes I made to the naval units.

The stats of naval units are revised, manily due to the map size, but also due to the AI's limitations in using these units. Thus ships can now move two times faster and their spotting and firing range is always the same. It makes the AI somewhat smarter when it comes to naval battles. It is no longer possible to attack an AI ship without fear of retaliation. All capital ships have their spotting and firing range set at 3-4, with the Italians and Soviets getting a -1 penalty as these navies did not have an effective radar (at least early on). Also, the max ammo of Axis naval units is greatly reduced e.g. U-boats have max ammo = 7. (The typical German U-boat of the time, the Type VII, carried 12-14 torpedoes and I calculated that two torpedoes are used in an average attack - and the unit's animation also shows two torpedoes being fired.) It makes naval warfare more interesting as the player sometimes has to take those units back to a port to replenish their ammunition. On the other hand, Allied naval units still have higher max ammo as the AI, as of today, is just not clever enough to take its ships back to a port for repair or resupply. (This can also simulate the naval superiority of the allies, who could replenish their ships and submarines at sea from supply ships.)

whats the estimated time this thing is released?
Very soon.
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iceFlame
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by iceFlame » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:50 am

McGuba wrote:Still it makes me think how many projects they had and how few of those materialized as a finished and effective weapon system on time to make a difference. And how much money, energy, and resources they spent on all these projects for little to nothing to gain.
It makes for an interesting decision in terms of priorities. Do you neglect certain areas of research in order to concentrate your efforts in a few select areas? By doing so you likely give yourself a greater opportunity for success in certain select fields. But you also run the risk of missing out on what may prove to be a more decisive technology.

So it seems to come down to the old argument of being a 'jack of all trades' or a master of one. In other words, specialization or generalization. For the Germans in WWII, it would seem fairly evident to even the most casual observer that they opted for the latter.

So while there will undoubtedly be greater waste due to unrealized projects, at least they can claim they left no stone unturned in the attempt to investigate all avenues of research. Therefore it might not be such a bad strategy, save for the fact Germany couldn't afford the waste as much as the Allied economies could.

Personally, I would have tried to specialize more, but that may be easier said than done on a national level.
McGuba wrote:(This can also simulate the naval superiority of the allies, who could replenish their ships and submarines at sea from supply ships.)
As I'm sure you remember from your Silent Hunter days, the Germans had abilities in this area as well with their Milch Cows. IIRC they began operating in late '41 to provide the type VII's with additional torpedoes and supplies for extended patrols. While their capacity was somewhat limited compared to the Allies, it might be interesting if they could somehow be modeled into the game as well. :)

Also, sorry to beat a dead horse, but if anyone is interested I just came across an excellent Ju 87C icon by Puma. You can take a look at it here:

http://www.strategie-gamer.com/viewtopi ... 75#p105149

I was particularly impressed with his representation of the gull wings, the angle of the canopy and his use of shading. IMO, very visually appealing. :D
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:04 am

Yes, of course I know about the 'milk cows', and it would indeed be great to add them somehow to the game. However, they had a rather short life expectancy as the Allies hunted them down one by one very quickly thanks to the breaking of the Enigma.
Also, sorry to beat a dead horse, but if anyone is interested I just came across an excellent Ju 87C icon by Puma.
That is a nice icon indeed, but I made a decision early on to include aircraft icons made by bebro only so that they can have a consistent look. There are only a few air icons made by me, but I tried to make them look as 'bebro icon' as I could to preserve that consistency. To put it bluntly, I do not like the idea of having icons made in a different style by different authors in the same game, no matter how good they look. I even went as far as to edit some vanilla units added with the patches as I found that for some mysterious reason they do not look like the previous icons. (Maybe they were made by antoher artist?) I would mention the Panzer.IIF and the Flammpanzer in the first place, with the Flammpanzer added by a patch being totally out of focus :


'vanilla' Panzer IIC:
Panzer_IIC.png
Panzer_IIC.png (27.57 KiB) Viewed 3433 times


'vanilla' Panzer II Flammpanzer:
Panzer_II_Flamm.png
Panzer_II_Flamm.png (28.01 KiB) Viewed 3433 times

my modified Panzer II Flammpanzer:
Panzer_II_Flamm.png
Panzer_II_Flamm.png (38.17 KiB) Viewed 3433 times
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:13 pm

I created a new intro movie clip for this mod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXpgYJZx-iE

(There are some Ju-87s in it as well, only for iceFlame :wink: )
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iceFlame
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by iceFlame » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:51 am

McGuba wrote:I created a new intro movie clip for this mod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXpgYJZx-iE

(There are some Ju-87s in it as well, only for iceFlame :wink: )
Wow! :D

Now that's what I call an intro... Gives you a feeling of being part of something truly ground shaking. History is unfolding and the world will never be the same! I gotta say you really selected some awesome footage and the editing is top notch. Great job putting it together!

Oh, and I loved the Stukas. :wink: Featuring them in '39 is a great touch as it really identifies how much of the early blitz success was built on tactical coordination between the air and land forces. Which, at the time, was quite revolutionary in the history of warfare. Well done! :D
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oasis22
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by oasis22 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:39 am

Impressive Sir McGuba, some rear footage put together that tell a story.
If i decide not to get involve in the battle of Britain, will the Axis contest Ally air supremacy on D-Day...
the beta testing by team MuGuba is taking a bit too long...

LandMarine47
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by LandMarine47 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:48 am

Seems like McGuba is going to beat BNC's WW1 mod!

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by McGuba » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:34 am

Seems like McGuba is going to beat BNC's WW1 mod!
Please refrain from making such statements. I do not want an entire stromtrooper division make a camp in the garden of our house. They would certainly destroy the grass.

I think BNC's WWI mod will be top-notch and I can't wait to wreck havoc with the Baron.
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:38 am

McGuba wrote:
Seems like McGuba is going to beat BNC's WW1 mod!
Please refrain from making such statements. I do not want an entire stromtrooper division make a camp in the garden of our house. They would certainly destroy the grass.

I think BNC's WWI mod will be top-notch and I can't wait to wreck havoc with the Baron.
I won't send the stormtroops out to hunt you, McGuba. However, I have sent an entire stormtrooper CORPS out to LandMarine's house :twisted:

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
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