maximum city size

4X strategy game from Proxy Studios

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greatUnknown
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maximum city size

Post by greatUnknown » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:47 pm

There appears to be a maximum city size of 256 [1 byte]; after that, the size rolls over to zero again.
I was happily watching a clump of my cities merging into one megalopolis, with each one over 200 population,
when suddenly it looked like they had been hit with super black holes.

Any way around this, or is that 1 byte size hard-coded?

And BTW, the artwork on the cities is great, especially when they start to merge, or cast reflections on water.

But why is so much hard-coded and inflexible, as opposed to being in XML files?

And, is there any weapon I can use to nuke Missy McDee? She has become more annoying than a multiple
nuclear-missile attack.

jdmillard
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Re: maximum city size

Post by jdmillard » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:51 pm

greatUnknown wrote:And, is there any weapon I can use to nuke Missy McDee? She has become more annoying than a multiple
nuclear-missile attack.
I agree. Please. I don't mind a notification icon on the right side of the screen, but I don't need the window pop-up. The window popup alone is annoying enough, but it's contents (Missy McDee) are the epitome of annoyance. Let us optionally disable it.

greatUnknown
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Re: maximum city size

Post by greatUnknown » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Worse, she pops up and covers parts of the screen that I would like to see, like an enemy attack
on my city.

jdmillard
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Re: maximum city size

Post by jdmillard » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:54 pm

That too. ugh.

Her comments are ridiculous too. I am of the opinion that this game does not need any comedic relief, I like it dramatic. And even if it did need something funny to lighten the mood, she isn't doing a very good job. The dialogue isn't funny nor is it even very clever. If someone rebukes me and says "they weren't going for funny," it still doesn't change the fact that it's just plain lame.

Belanos
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Re: maximum city size

Post by Belanos » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Frankly, I find that the game has too many pop-ups all around. Like this whole praise/denounce thing. What is even the point in that? Yet in the game I was playing yesterday I was getting praised almost every turn. Enough already!

jdmillard
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Re: maximum city size

Post by jdmillard » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:22 pm

Belanos wrote:Frankly, I find that the game has too many pop-ups all around. Like this whole praise/denounce thing. What is even the point in that? Yet in the game I was playing yesterday I was getting praised almost every turn. Enough already!
There is a reason for it, but it just isn't balanced right now. The quickest example I can think of is: Imagine two factions are at war and then you meet both of them at the same time. If you praise one of them, the other will automatically think less of you (seeing you as a friend of an enemy). Similarly, if you denounce someone, you gain favor with their enemies and your friends think less of him. It's just a way to add dynamics to the diplomacy side of the game. However, right now it needs some balancing and adjustment.

jdmillard
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Re: maximum city size

Post by jdmillard » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:26 pm

greatUnknown wrote:There appears to be a maximum city size of 256 [1 byte]; after that, the size rolls over to zero again.
I was happily watching a clump of my cities merging into one megalopolis, with each one over 200 population,
when suddenly it looked like they had been hit with super black holes.
I guess I'll be razing cities if and when my cities get that large in order to avoid a city reset. That is - until I hear that something changed about it. But holy smokes, I never got close to size 100 much less 256. I applaud you.

boulugre
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Re: maximum city size

Post by boulugre » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:31 am

jdmillard wrote:
greatUnknown wrote:And, is there any weapon I can use to nuke Missy McDee? She has become more annoying than a multiple
nuclear-missile attack.
I agree. Please. I don't mind a notification icon on the right side of the screen, but I don't need the window pop-up. The window popup alone is annoying enough, but it's contents (Missy McDee) are the epitome of annoyance. Let us optionally disable it.
I agree, please sack Missy McDee ASAP ! :P

void
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Re: maximum city size

Post by void » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:49 pm

So much hate on Missy! If this goes on her humor will get axed, I agree it's slightly over the top.

We indeed use one byte for population size to save traffic/memory and were not expecting customers (I read today that's the new word to use) to need more than that. Guess I'll make it a short uint with one of the next revisions.
Lorenz Ruhmann
Proxy Studios

arraamis
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Re: maximum city size

Post by arraamis » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:05 pm

Keep Missy .... but alter her announcements to be more informative.

I like the idea of a newscaster bringing news about what's happening between other factions. The so-called humor is somewhat repetitive and annoying but it can be made into a more useful source of information.

jdmillard
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Re: maximum city size

Post by jdmillard » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:15 pm

I agree. The humor has to go. If you keep her and make her comments more serious and informative, there's still one more thing. Make the window wait and pause before appearing so that it doesn't cover up a crucial battle.

Belanos
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Re: maximum city size

Post by Belanos » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:44 pm

jdmillard wrote: Make the window wait and pause before appearing so that it doesn't cover up a crucial battle.
That should actually be applied for all sorts of windows. I keep having things pop up when I'm in the middle of doing something and getting distracted. The game should also be paused when doing things like going into a city screen or any other menu. It's annoying as hell trying to do something in one of my cities then suddenly having things shift to some unit that wants me to do something to it. And if I wait until the end of the turn, I might just forget what it was I wanted to do at the time.

kidpython
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Re: maximum city size

Post by kidpython » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:06 am

Shift-Tab is your friend. Enjoy!

greatUnknown
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Re: maximum city size

Post by greatUnknown » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:45 am

Ayup; a ushort should do it. Getting past 64K would take about 200 days of continuous play - and require
extreme modding of population2 and morale factors. BTW, population2 would also have to be upgraded to use ushort.
I don't know your internal code structure, but I suspect this would be true of your population buildings in general.

But then again, I remember when a 64K core memory was cutting edge; then, there was no way anyone would ever need
more that a 10 meg hard drive. Who knows, I might run this game past 64K pop per city one day. Or not.

In any case, the reason I go for the large cities is to watch how they merge and blend when they run into each other. Works
much better when they are blocked on one or two side by water, so they have to expand towards each other. Simple pleasures
for simple minds.

Sammael
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Re: maximum city size

Post by Sammael » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:28 am

How did you manage this? I currently have a size 53 city and intend on playing until I get the merging effect you described. I am playing as Terra Nova and at size 47 you start to run out of habitat. Each population point after this reduces morale by 1 so I calculate the city will stop growing entirely at around size 84-88.

greatUnknown
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Re: maximum city size

Post by greatUnknown » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:37 am

By modding ...Data/World/Buildings/Population2 from add=16 to add=32 or, occasionally add=64.

you can also modify your faction by inserting the following
after <effects>
<habitatMultiplier add="0.4"/>

I think Terra Nova already has
<habitatMultiplier add="0.25"/>
so crank it up.

While this game is still not as flexible as, say, Endless Space, because so much more here is hard-coded,
there is still a lot of mischief to be done.

Sammael
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Re: maximum city size

Post by Sammael » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:50 am

Thanks for responding. I managed to do this and was surprised how easy it was. I think I will try creating a/some new buildings to deal with this habitation issue. I would like to find a solution to producing infinite amounts of habitat while still maintaining game play balance, realism, and challenge.

While I was messing around looking at all of the files I noticed that under Data > Video > Textures > Resources there was an icon labled 'artist' also I saw some references to 'fish' resource which adds +3 to water. I wonder if this is a hint to new features to come.
Last edited by Sammael on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

greatUnknown
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Re: maximum city size

Post by greatUnknown » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:06 am

As far as I know, population is still coded as a single byte, meaning it has a maximum value of 256. Past that, it starts over at 0 again. If and when they change it to a word, you'll have up to 64K to play with, which is effectively infinite unless you play for over 50,000 turns.

The suggestions of future water modifications have been noted and you are probably correct. I hope.

Belanos
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Re: maximum city size

Post by Belanos » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:35 am

Sammael wrote: While I was messing around looking at all of the files I noticed that under Data > Video > Textures > Resources there was an icon labled 'artist' also I saw some references to 'fist' resource which adds +3 to water.
I also came across that in one of the xml files. I forget which one now.

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