next gen CC question

[manoi]

1. Will you keep all the improvements made so far (as the possibility to move 2 BG on the same map)?
2. Will the walls still be crossable or will they be more concrete?
3. Will the 3D maps sudivided in tiles and coded as before? How will you render the difference between wood and brick walls by sample?
4. How will the floors be handled?

I know it is early to ask precision on these features but 2013 is not so far.

[SteveMcClaire]

Hi manoi,

Here is the current thinking on the new engine, but no promises on the final design.

1) The campaign system will likely be different. Several ideas have been proposed but it probably will not be the same type of strategic map that we have now. This really hasn't been solidified enough to give information yet.

2) Buildings (I assume this is what you mean) will probably still be somewhat abstract, with infantry able to enter or leave by going through the wall instead of using doors and windows.

3) My current plan is to have a map editor where the player 'paints' a ground texture onto the map (like grass) which both colors the ground and codes it at the same time. You then add 3D objects like buildings, trees, walls, etc. Stone walls and wood fences would have both separate 3D models and separate textures.

4) I assume you mean floors within a building -- what I want to do is allow the player to control what floor an infantry unit is on by being able to order them to go up/down floors within a building. This does introduce some UI issues (how do you tell what floor they're on? How do you order them to go up/down? How do you select units when one is directly above another in the same building, etc) but I think we'll be able to solve them.

Again, none of this is set in stone at this point.

Steve

[manoi]

Thanks for your answers

1) The campaign system will likely be different. Several ideas have been proposed but it probably will not be the same type of strategic map that we have now. This really hasn't been solidified enough to give information yet.

mmmmh I'm afraid of this (I find the actual stratmap one of the major evolution of the CC series so far)

2) Buildings (I assume this is what you mean) will probably still be somewhat abstract, with infantry able to enter or leave by going through the wall instead of using doors and window

curious to see how the game engine will use the 3D objects then. the possibility to go through the wall have always bother me for unit entering a multiple floors building.

3) My current plan is to have a map editor where the player 'paints' a ground texture onto the map (like grass) which both colors the ground and codes it at the same time. You then add 3D objects like buildings, trees, walls, etc. Stone walls and wood fences would have both separate 3D models and separate textures.

Will the stone wall still offer better protection than the wood one? Will each 3D objects still have protection and cover values? Hope we will be able to import our own models! Will the buildings be destructible?

4) I assume you mean floors within a building -- what I want to do is allow the player to control what floor an infantry unit is on by being able to order them to go up/down floors within a building. This does introduce some UI issues (how do you tell what floor they're on? How do you order them to go up/down? How do you select units when one is directly above another in the same building, etc) but I think we'll be able to solve them.

yes a lot of problems to solve! good luck! and don't forget the hand to hand battles in buildings with multiple floors : one challenge more!

[SteveMcClaire]

Different types of terrain will offer different levels of protection, yes. So a stone wall will be better cover than a wood fence. Buildings will be damaged and destroyed, though it is likely this will be a somewhat simple mechanic.

[Talorgan]

The campaign system will likely be different.

How likely is it that primitive air or naval transportation will be abstracted in? Obviously we already have the scattered initial set up designed to simulate arrival from above but the current campaign map system would struggle to simulate island hopping in the Solomons for example. Yes, LSA had its river crossings but it was choreographed according to the needs of the actual, historical Market-Garden campaign.

[SteveMcClaire]

The campaign system will likely be different.

How likely is it that primitive air or naval transportation will be abstracted in?

Pretty unlikely for the first version, unless it is something required for the setting of the game.

[Talorgan]

"The game at two levels" is, I think, a great untapped possibility (dream) in the video gaming world. Those of us of a certain age will remember using an umpire and hex maps for operational movement with encounters being resolved on the tabletop with miniatures. Then there was the combo of The Operational Art of War (for campaign moves) and Combat Mission (for tactical resolution). More recently Battlefront actually tried to give us the game at two levels in the shape of Combat Mission Campaigns. Some of us still cry ourselves to sleep at night that it came to nothing.

It was typical (maybe admirable) of Battlefront that they tried to give us an impossibly perfect product. We whining customers should maybe have a long hard think to ourselves about whether we prefer the theoretical perfection of Combat Mission Campaigns or the practical reality of Close Combat's less sophisticated but ever-improving strat layer. I don't doubt your commitment to improving this in the next version.

How difficult would it be though to have some form of formalised link up (data transfer) between Close Combat and another game? The Operational Art of War is still around and Advanced Tactics Gold is part of Matrix' stable if not Slitherine's. Couldn't Close Combat be the "tabletop with miniatures" by which ground combat in one of these excellent operational games is resolved?

Steve McClaire meet Victor Reijkersz!

[SteveMcClaire]

I think, given the amount of work to do over the next year, we probably are not going to have time to tie in with other games. But this is an idea that's been kicked around several times. We've discussed the option to dump all the save file info into a text format, so that people could write their own editor / translation programs. So something like this is not out of the question.

[Talorgan]

We've discussed the option to dump all the save file info into a text format, so that people could write their own editor / translation programs.

Awesome! (as the say in North America)

That would help a great deal.

Obviously there would have to be some means of feeding the info back in again but you knew that already.

[DJ88]

My take is that Next Gen engine and design needs to keep the modeling scale small still. 3D or quasi-3D modeling tends to have very poor scale with the design as either too large or unrealistic scale of figures/vehicles/terrain/buildings. If the scale of the modeling is kept small enough to handle the large number of units/soldiers in larger battles, 3D would work. Countless gaming companies design products for kids with ridiculous 3D modeling that is nowhere near accurate. I have yet to see a 3D game that looked authentic in terms of scale accuracy.

Also the other factor IMO is the scale of the Map itself. Go too big and the A.I. doesn't work or you waste way too much time traveling across the Map to find opponents. Go small like the original CC2 game and you spend most of the time on actual combat tactics. Maps that are slightly larger than the original CC2 size I think would be ideal. Just like the title of the game, it literally should be "Close Combat".

[manoi]

I think the scale will be more like a sudden strike 3 than a tow game. And close combat games don't need an excessive zoom in. The only things in the former games, that were a little hard to see, were the hand to hand fights. I just hope that the graphics will be still attractive : the last 3D games I have seen (combat mission,tow, sudden strike 3) are ugly or the maps feel empty (I know this is not the main purpose of these games). But the close combat maps, even in 2D, were very attractive in comparaison. So I hope to see maps and vehicles with fine graphics but in the kind of the close combat games, not as tow or even as achtung panzer (impossible to play it as a close combat game with the vertical view - > it has good graphics when you are close to the models but if you zoom out, it is very difficult to see anything).

[SteveMcClaire]

In keeping with the CC style, you won't be able to zoom in and get right down to a first person view or third person sort of view. When zooming out your unit locations will be shown by an icon that doesn't scale (or at least not as much) so you can still see where they are even if the soldiers become too small to see clearly. I'm also considering doing a 'scale up' type feature, where you can scale the vehicles and soldiers up to 2x or 4x (or larger) their normal size. This would be just a visual thing, so you can see them more clearly.

[MajVonRyan]

".... I'm also considering doing a 'scale up' type feature, where you can scale the vehicles and soldiers up to 2x or 4x (or larger) their normal size. This would be just a visual thing, so you can see them more clearly.

Hi Steve,

That would be a great feature; the old eyes would really appreciate it

[MajVonRyan]

Hi Steve,

Any plans for or development work commenced on a next gen CC game?

[SteveMcClaire]

It is indeed under development, and we're working away. There will probably be some press about it before the summer is over. Release is still a ways away, however.

[MajVonRyan]

It is indeed under development, and we're working away. There will probably be some press about it before the summer is over. Release is still a ways away, however.

Great news, a copy of screen shots would be nice or a may be a couple of words re: area of operations.

Will the game focus on WW2?

All the best

[sshnuke]

Just got this on Twitter:

Matrix Games ‏@MatrixGamesLtd 23h

Close Combat: The Bloody First, coming 2014 in 3D-top down view #MatrixatHistoricon

[MajVonRyan]

Just got this on Twitter:

Matrix Games ‏@MatrixGamesLtd 23h

Close Combat: The Bloody First, coming 2014 in 3D-top down view #MatrixatHistoricon

Thanks sshnule, great news

1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One, Fighting First.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Infant ... ed_States)

[sshnuke]

finally it's gateway to caen but not the bloody first....

[MajVonRyan]

finally it's gateway to caen but not the bloody first....

Do you have any more information or any ideas re: the game or 'caen'?