Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

PSP/DS/PC/MAC : WWII turn based grand strategy game

Moderators: firepowerjohan, rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core

Post Reply
supermax
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:05 pm

Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by supermax » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:58 am

In a game against Crazygunner, I took Suez last turn. So I received my turn again (the turn after the Suez canal became available) and the Atlantic loop is still unavailable to the Axis...

Does this means the Italian fleet can no longer go into the Atlantic? I hope its a bug.

If yes this is a BIG BUMMER...

Cybvep
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:38 pm

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by Cybvep » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:59 am

It's not a bug. This was changed because of the distances involved and the fact that while the Allies had many support bases in Africa, the Axis did not. On the other hand, they can go to the Persian Gulf freely now.

@down Is it even possible to implement?
Last edited by Cybvep on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kragdob
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:55 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by Kragdob » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:08 pm

For Axis the only way now is through Gibraltar.

My personal opinion is that SUBs should be able to use the loops any time, capital ships as is now.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4706
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:07 pm

Before the Atlantic loop was controlled by Basra so it's not like the Axis often managed to get their fleet out into the Atlantic unless they captured Gibraltar.

trulster
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:20 pm
Location: London

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by trulster » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:10 pm

Cybvep wrote:It's not a bug. This was changed because of the distances involved and the fact that while the Allies had many support bases in Africa, the Axis did not. On the other hand, they can go to the Persian Gulf freely now.
True enough. However, you could hypothetise that *if* Suez is controlled, this means increased Axis pressure and influence over Mid-East and Africa, so that various small off-map campaigns take place outside the player's control esuring some bases in Africa, ie the ability to use the loop.

supermax
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:05 pm

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by supermax » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:18 pm

trulster wrote:
Cybvep wrote:It's not a bug. This was changed because of the distances involved and the fact that while the Allies had many support bases in Africa, the Axis did not. On the other hand, they can go to the Persian Gulf freely now.
True enough. However, you could hypothetise that *if* Suez is controlled, this means increased Axis pressure and influence over Mid-East and Africa, so that various small off-map campaigns take place outside the player's control esuring some bases in Africa, ie the ability to use the loop.
Exactly my toughts...

Its not like Axis imagination would have stopped with our map.

Sicne we are taking decision with off-map considerations, we should do the same for this problem.

Yes, the Axis would have found a way to get bases in Africa... Even the Japanese thought at one time to land in Magadascar. Hell in 1942 the Japanese were operating around Ceylon, whats to say that the axis power couldn't cooperate?

Anyway I think that the axis would have used the Italian bases in Italian east Africa to hop gently along the coast.

The way to simulate this would be simple. Put it back the way it was.

But, alas, this wont be the case. It a lot better to simulate than to play, it seems.

Anyway, I have decided to stop my AAR , as anyway I am doing a very novel strategy that I hope should vanquish the Russians. So I don't want to show something that's going to be modified because I found a way to win as the axis. In my last fortress Europa game, I won clear-cut victory, so it works well.

I will also contact all my opponents to see if they want to change the txt file to fix this.

Peter Stauffenberg
General - Carrier
General - Carrier
Posts: 4706
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:22 pm

trulster wrote:
Cybvep wrote:It's not a bug. This was changed because of the distances involved and the fact that while the Allies had many support bases in Africa, the Axis did not. On the other hand, they can go to the Persian Gulf freely now.
True enough. However, you could hypothetise that *if* Suez is controlled, this means increased Axis pressure and influence over Mid-East and Africa, so that various small off-map campaigns take place outside the player's control esuring some bases in Africa, ie the ability to use the loop.
I don't agree with that. To be able to use the Atlantic loop then you need to sail through the Cape of Good Hope. This is controlled by South Africa, a Commonwealth country. To get from the Red Sea to the Cape of Good Hope you need to sail into the Arabian Sea and then to the Indian Ocean. The part with the Arabian Sea would have been possible due to Italian Somaliland being Axis controlled. Then you could get the Persian Gulf. However the ships would be very vulnerable sailing down the coast of Kenya, Mozambique down to South Africa.

Getting through the Cape of Good Hope is just the half distance. Then you need to sail all the way to Northwestern Africa and further to France. There were no area of operations where the Axis could expect to get bases along that route except maybe Morocco and maybe even as far as Dakar. Nigeria, Congo etc would have been out of reach.

The biggest problem in the game with open transport loops is that ANY unit can get past there. Subs could probably be able to sneak past in small numbers (refuelling from regular "neutral" ships secretly aiding the Axis). But there is no way troop transports could get this distance. With the Atlantic loop open it means you can stage long distance invasions as the Axis like invading Egypt from the south or Iraq via the Persian Gulf while Suez is still closed to the Axis.

It was discussed to allow subs to use the Atlantic transport loop, but people in the closed beta voted against it to keep the rules simpler. As I posted above it's possible to just change a value in general.txt to make the Atlantic loop open for both sides if one really wants to have it open.

Cybvep
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1259
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:38 pm

Re: Axis not able to use Atlantic loop in the Red Sea?

Post by Cybvep » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:55 pm

The biggest problem in the game with open transport loops is that ANY unit can get past there. Subs could probably be able to sneak past in small numbers (refuelling from regular "neutral" ships secretly aiding the Axis). But there is no way troop transports could get this distance. With the Atlantic loop open it means you can stage long distance invasions as the Axis like invading Egypt from the south or Iraq via the Persian Gulf while Suez is still closed to the Axis.
I agree. I think that subs should pass, but troop transports - definitely not.

Post Reply

Return to “MILITARY HISTORY™ Commander - Europe at War : General Discussion”