Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

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Ironclad
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Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by Ironclad » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm

To help those of us who find difficulty keeping track of the total of Italian surrender cities lost would it be possible to include a running total or some other graphic device on screen which would alert the unwary Axis commander. I suppose there is no reason why it couldn't be available to both sides.

I realise its probably too late for 3.10 but if it could be included in the future to do list it would be very helpful. The number of times I forget about Sardinia and/or Tirana re the list is getting embarrassing!

Thanks.

BattlevonWar
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by BattlevonWar » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:07 pm

When I hotseat in 3.0 I'm pretty sure this was my list:

Tunis(?) not sure in the original manual that counted but I took it anyway for good measure
Tripoli
Benghazi
Tobruk
Palermo
Messina
Cagliari
Rail Yard: Reggio but I assume they must be equal to half a city??? That seems logical to me

Now one kicker cause I don't like to give away everything, but I do believe I may or may not have taken Naples :P :evil:

God, that actually makes the taking of Italy quite expensive if you put a proper defense up early enough doesn't it? Also, I think nobody puts up a comprehensive list because it's a little too easy to take Italy? I wonder

Ironclad
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by Ironclad » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:40 pm

The manual tells us which cities are eligible and that rail depots count as half. What I'd like to see is something on the screen that alerts you how close to the 5 total city target the Allies have reached. There are various possibilities eg showing the number in the the heading information row at the top of the screen, by an alert box which would appear when the captured total changes or by graphic symbol or colour shading of the cities/depots taken.

BattlevonWar
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by BattlevonWar » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:56 am

Not a bad idea... Do you still remember our Italian Mechanized Corp, the one that survived 25-35 attacks? That could be inflated though? Would have been nice to know if a couple of rail depots or an empty city could have been para hit? I really think the Italians should have a 0 organization throughout the game.

OxfordGuy3
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by OxfordGuy3 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:39 pm

BattlevonWar wrote:When I hotseat in 3.0 I'm pretty sure this was my list:

Tunis(?) not sure in the original manual that counted but I took it anyway for good measure
Tripoli
Benghazi
Tobruk

Palermo
Messina
Cagliari
Rail Yard: Reggio but I assume they must be equal to half a city??? That seems logical to me

Now one kicker cause I don't like to give away everything, but I do believe I may or may not have taken Naples :P :evil:

God, that actually makes the taking of Italy quite expensive if you put a proper defense up early enough doesn't it? Also, I think nobody puts up a comprehensive list because it's a little too easy to take Italy? I wonder
I'm pretty sure Benghazi and Tobruk are not Italian surrender cities. I thought it was just:

Tunis (but not under all circumstances - is it only after US entry?)
Tripoli
Tirana (Albania)
Plus all cities and rail yards in Italy, including Sicily and Sardinia, with rail yards counting as half a city.

BattlevonWar
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by BattlevonWar » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:55 am

Absolutely certain of that? Good lord, why even bother with Libya :P

Ironclad
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by Ironclad » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:35 pm

Italian surrender cities are all Italian mainland and Sicilian cities with 2 rail depots from Reggio, Foggia and Trieste counting as one city, plus Cagliari (Sardinia), Tirana(Albania), Tripoli (Libya) and Tunis (Tunisia. Only counts if USA has joined Allies); 5 cities being the surrender target total.

So if the Allies make a clean sweep of the outer possessions - Tunisia, Libya, Sardinia and Albania - they just need one more city equivalent in Sicily or the Italian mainland to achieve surrender.

KC Dennis
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by KC Dennis » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:24 am

Shouldn't there at least be a little uncertainty about Italy's surrender? Neither side really knew when they would give up the fight. What if there was a 10% chance that 3 cities would be enough, 20% 4 cities, 40% 5 cities, 20% 6 cities, 10% 7 cities. It would require the Axis to worry about an Italian surrender earlier, and the Allies would not be guaranteed a 5 city surrender.

ncali
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by ncali » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:26 am

KC Dennis wrote:Neither side really knew when they would give up the fight.
Not completely true. The Allies had signed an agreement with the Italian government after Mussolini was ousted and, as far as I know, were pretty certain Italy would be giving up / switching sides at the time of the invasion of the Allied mainland. The Germans may have been a bit more surprised, but I believe they recovered quite quickly.

Rasputitsa
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by Rasputitsa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:31 am

KC Dennis wrote:Shouldn't there at least be a little uncertainty about Italy's surrender? Neither side really knew when they would give up the fight. What if there was a 10% chance that 3 cities would be enough, 20% 4 cities, 40% 5 cities, 20% 6 cities, 10% 7 cities. It would require the Axis to worry about an Italian surrender earlier, and the Allies would not be guaranteed a 5 city surrender.
+1

I understand the actual historical events, agreements and understandings, but for the purposes of the game a little uncertainty would be good. In the real world, agreements can be broken, friendly factions overthrown, I don't think the Allies could be completely certain of Italian co-operation until it happened. In hind-sight we know what occurred, but it was not so clear at the time and, it would make strategic planning more realistic, if the game reflected that uncertainty, or at least had a selective option for such an effect.

JimR
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Re: Alert about current total of Italian surrender cities.

Post by JimR » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:13 am

A little uncertainty would be fun, from a gaming point of view. On the other hand, version 3.10 has been completed, so perhaps this is an idea to put aside for the time being.

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