GS v3.10 minor map change

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Peter Stauffenberg
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GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:17 pm

We noticed that the border between Denmark and Germany is slightly wrong. Denmark never had a border to the Kiel canal. So we changed the hex 1xNW of Kiel from Danish to German.

Look how it looks like in the new version:
Image

This is how it looks like in the real map:
Image

Download the attached scenario.rar file. Unzip that file and place the content in the data/scenario folder.
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Cybvep
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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Cybvep » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:18 pm

Does it make it easier to attack Denmark during bad weather?

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:03 am

You need a movement allowance of 3 to get adjance to Copenhagen. That means you can't attack in mud weather. In winter only tanks can move 3 hexes in a turn. So a panzer corps at the Danish border can reach Copenhagen in 1 turn in winter (not mud). Infantry and mech units will need 2 turns.

The real Norwegians and Danes were attacked early April 1940. Then it was still snowy. Denmark was overrun in just a few days.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Vokt » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:41 pm

It's now opened to new suggested map changes? I have several on mind.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by myysh » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:50 am

Now a corps can provide two hexes that allow tac to reach Oslo.
With Str capable of bombing garrison in city, it might be possible to Dow Denmark and Norway on turn 2 without a inflict to case white.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Rasputitsa » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:38 pm

Thanks for the Map Fix.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:50 am

Vokt wrote:It's now opened to new suggested map changes? I have several on mind.
You can always propose your changes and then we see what to do.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Vokt » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:37 pm

Stauffenberg wrote: You can always propose your changes and then we see what to do.

To start with and if this is about to fix little map inaccuracies I have chosen France as the first sample. To specify, northeast french border. If you see in the image below showing a real France map, french border between Calais and Strasbourg is a diagonal straight line:

Image

Now let's see what we have in CEAW map:
Image

As you can see, those 3 fortress hexes owned by France north of Strasbourg, break that referred straight border line and IMO they should correspond respectively from west to east, to Luxemboug (1) and Rhineland (2).

Below is an edited image of CEAW map with suggested change in french border to fit more the real one:

Image

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:11 am

The entire CEAW / GS map is actually quite distorted. It's like it's stretched east west so its wider than it could have been. The distortion is even bigger in the north. E g. the angle Norway and Sweden are shown is not right at all. Norway leans to the north east on the GS map, but it doesn't on real maps. Russia leans to the north west while it doesn't on real maps.

A reason for this distortion is that we try to have quite a big map shown in GS. All from USA to North Africa to the Caspian Sea to Scandinavia. Since the map is flat and the real map would have been a sphere then you get distortion.

It's a major job trying to make a better projection of this map area with less distortion where it's important. I considered doing that some years ago, but realized it wasn't worth the effort. Most players enjoy the map they have now and don't think much about the distortions you have.

Another factor is that you need to place cities, rivers, borders in or along hexes. Just by that you introduce quite a few compromises. E. g. a city is drawn as being in the middle of a hex, but in the real map it could have been at the edge of the hex. E. g. if Calais in your example is at the edge to the north and Strasbourg is at the edge to the south then you get the offset you want instead of a straight line.

I feel that by pushing the Maginot line one hex further south you get the distortion effect in a different way. Maybe you fix something, but you create some other problem instead. Quite often on maps you realize that borders should be in the middle of a hex instead of along the hex sides. In your example one of the Maginot hexes have appeared on the east bank of the Rhine river and that is not how it should be. So moving hex lines in France means we need to redraw the flow of the Rhine river. Then you will notice that it becomes even more distorted than it was since it will bulge where it doesn't on the real map.

E. g. countries like Austria and Czechoslovakia are particularly difficult to create on hex maps since they are quite narrow some places.

All wargames maps are compromises and sometimes you create for gameplay effect rather than accuracy.

One thing is to fix obvious mistakes like Denmark having a border to Kiel another is to try to fix distortion issues. E. g. the Danish / German border is still distorted in GS compared to the real map. On the GS it shows like the border is tilted north east while on the real map it's tilted north west. One could let the southwestern Danish hex become German to fix the tilt issue, but then the German border is too close to the Danish town of Esbjerg. The southwestern Danish hex is actually half German and half Danish. So we gave it to Denmark for gameplay reasons even though we know it creates some distortion.
Last edited by Peter Stauffenberg on Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:15 am

We will probably not do map changes that will require changing the background map since that requires distribution of quite a few background maps and changing the map tiles. Altering borders or city locations is much easier to do.

I won't make any conclusions to your suggestion above. Let's other players have their opinions first. Remember that your map change means that Germany will get quite a bit closer to France once they capture Belgium. So it will have an impact on Case Yellow.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:55 am

The main reason to change the German / Danish border was not to get rid of a distortion, but the fact that one of the hexes adjacent to the Kiel canal belonged to Denmark. In GS v3.0 we altered the rules for control of the Kiel canal and Suez canal so all hexes adjacent to the canal must either be controlled or neutral to be able to use the canal.

That is fine for the Kiel canal as long as Denmark is neutral, but when Germany DoW's Denmark then one of the hexes adjacent to the Kiel canal was enemy controlled and thus Germany would lose control over the Kiel canal. Granted, this is only temporary since Germany would most certainly invade Denmark after DoW'ing it. But let's say you only invade by doing the transport invasion from Kiel directly adjacent Copenhagen and you fail taking Copenhagen. Then you actually lose control over the Kiel canal until Copenhagen is captured.

This doesn't feel right when the Kiel canal was nowhere near the Danish border. By moving the border the all hexes adjacent to the Kiel canal are initially German as they should be.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Vokt » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:24 pm

That's right. I know that this is only a map for a game and it doesn't have to fit exactly with real map. Anyway, changes in GS map have been really substantial. If we compare GS map with vanilla game map difference is big. I remember that country borders on vanilla map were far from the real ones in 1939. These and many other inaccuracies of vanilla map have been progresively corrected through the different updates.

Although I consider this suggested map change in France one step forward on that direction, it would certainly involve to change map tiles since Rhine river drawing would have to be adapted.

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Re: GS v3.10 minor map change

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:32 pm

Pk867 is the one with the final call regarding whether suggested map changes will be done or not. One reason is that HE is the one who will have spend time to alter the background maps. Another reason is that he is in charge of the graphics in the GS team.

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